They disabled the 1.5 BR limit difference

[CptEdwardKenway]

And the gank trolling continues ...

[WilsonMG]

On 4/21/2016 at 7:52 AM, admin said:

1.5 br limit was removed based on the player feedback

 

But positional reinforcing remains?  So now all the gankers have to do is tag someone with one fast ship then they can position themselves all around in the open world as they see fit and cut off any hope the victim has of escape.  Awesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, positional reinforcements was a good, realistic addition to the game.  The open world is time on fast forward though so the 1.5x BR difference made sense, but could have used some tweaking.

 

People shouldn't be able to join outside of the initial tag circle at all considering they're moving in fast forward while the people stuck in the battle are stationary.  There shouldn't be any invisibility timers, invulnerability should be limited to a very short period so the player has time to actually load the scene and get moving, and all that should matter is who is in the tag circle.  If you were invulnerable while in the tag circle and someone initiates a battle, you should have the option to join in, but no one from outside the tag circle should be allowed to join at any point after as they are simply "too far away" (in real-time) to help.

[Sir Robert Calder]

But positional reinforcing remains?  So now all the gankers have to do is tag someone with one fast ship then they can position themselves all around in OW as they see fit and cut off any hope the victim has of escape.  Awesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, positional reinforcements was a good, realistic addition to the game.  OW is time on fast forward though so the 1.5x BR difference made sense, but could have used some tweaking.

 

People shouldn't be able to join outside of the initial tag circle at all considering they're moving in fast forward while the people stuck in the battle are stationary.  There shouldn't be any invisibility timers, invulnerability should be limited to a very short period so the player has time to actually load the scene and get moving, and all that should matter is who is in the tag circle.  If you were invulnerable while in the tag circle and someone initiates a battle, you should have the option to join in, but no one from outside the tag circle should be allowed to join at any point after as they are simply "too far away" (in real-time) to help.

 

 

Gankers were already using positional reinforcement to their advantage with the 1.5x BR difference. Positional reinforcement makes it much harder to escape (but not impossible), I think most can agree on that. However, when one is ganked by 3-5 ships if you're in anything other than a Renommee you were probably going to lose anyways.

 

 

To everyone here who will be upset by the 1.5x BR limit difference change ask yourselves these questions:

 

Was ganking really stopped by a 1.5x BR limit?

Would it have been more effective with a 1.0x BR limit?

Should every time someone gets attacked on the open seas alone they be only forced into a 1v1 duel to make things more fair, which is something completely ahistorical?

Do you think it's right for enemies to club seals in front of your capital because you can't join to assist your newer players?

[Lord Vicious]

Gj was really annoyng

[McFatts]

Man you guys of little faith.  It was funny it wasn't in patch notes.  I was first on server after maintenance.  Admin Vlad just posted: Patch notes:  1.5 BR removed.  

[Neith]

Please also delete the 2 minute to join. It create a huge pvp

[Blackjack Morgan]

I'd say this is pretty unfortunate. If you really look at it what people were complaining about is that it limited their ability to be spread out and cover vast amounts of real estate but still be able to pile in on an opponent they outnumbered. Takes away the requirement to sail in a close formation and allows for lazy play where sheer numbers can overcome a skill disadvantage. If you combine this with the ability for others to join the battle in front of the tagged opponent you are making it so in favor of the people with the numbers advantage its sickening. 

 

I would love for someone to tell me what the current engagement circle represents in scaled miles. I know it looks awfully damn big currently and probably the time it takes to sail from one end of the circle to the other could actually represent an hour of OS time. So, while the engagement is progressing in real time we have everyone else on the OS traveling in a totally different time continuum where they can travel a vast amount of miles and magically appear in the battle AHEAD of the tagged opponent?! How in the world does this make any sense to anyone? Not too mention invisibility BS that is abused already at ports, battle results screens, logging off than logging in when your buddies on TS tell you to. It's garbage.

 

Devs, you actually were going down the right path on this one and caved to lazy zergers where numbers mean everything and skill means a whole heck of a lot less.

[Blackjack Morgan]

Why have "Join timers" at all, why just dont let people jump in as long as the batte rages?,, sure would make a ganker Think twice: attacking in forign Waters.

But such a thing might also "kill" the game-play or boost it,, a lot!

 

This does not "hurt" gankers....I swear to god part of the problem is people consider anyone attacking them a gank. A gank is a vastly numerically superior force or a vastly more powerful opponent versus one that has no chance of winning or escaping....which in the later example is better exemplified in MMO's where you have a level 50 opponent attacking a level 10 guy. In NA a guy in a snow gets attacked by another player in a Trinc...well that snow can actually win or at least get away fairly easy, therefore, this is not a "gank". 

 

Now sailing around in a Connie and you get engaged by 5 enemies with 2-3 spawning in front of you and yea this is a gank. All it will take is one guy to tag you and literally 20 other people can come piling in as long as they are within the two minutes....and if they are not completely braindead they will be able to join the battle virtually surrounding you. And you seriously would even remotely want to suggest lifting the 2 minute timer? Holy hell in nation chat already you get the "oh come save me i was sailing my big fat slow as hell ship all by myself and i got tagged just south of such and such port"....you take away a 2 minute timer and this might as well turn into zergfest online. 

 

So many Hello Kitty "PvP'ers" running around already using every weak ass exploitable game mechanic they can come up with to tilt the odds so heavily in their favor that a blind and dumb NASA space chimp could win it makes me sick. 

[Twig]

1.5 br limit was removed based on the player feedback

Thanks!!!

[Sir Robert Calder]

Please also delete the 2 minute to join. It create a huge pvp

 

Why have "Join timers" at all, why just dont let people jump in as long as the batte rages?,, sure would make a ganker Think twice: attacking in forign Waters.

But such a thing might also "kill" the game-play or boost it,, a lot!

 

I have to agree with Prater on this. I've argued in favor of making larger BR battles incur a dynamic join window so the less BR side could make up the difference easier, but having the battle open to the entirety of the hour forces attackers to only gank with 25 man teams. Any battle that engaged even within 7 ports of a Capital would be swarmed with bored players in an instant making attacks pointless for small group PvP.

[Manta Scorpion]

Ahh it was a nice time fighting 2000 vs 3000 BR and winning, time to get back to the 2000 vs 4000 again

Shame on everyone that used the mecanic to exploit it was a good change...everyone doing this in such a small community must be so unskilled ????

Edited April 22, 2016 by Manta Scorpion

[Sven Silberbart]

What I dont like:

 

- Come out of a harbour and join battles as reinforcement

- Come out of the battle Screen and join battles as reinforcement

- Come out of Login-Screen and join battles as reinforcement

- High Level Player groups ganking low Level players at Starting areas (We need big Save Zones or low Lvl Protection)

...

 

All these things using game system weakness to outnumber the enemy in battle. Should be stopped

 

What I like:

 

- Coming as reinforcement from open world. Not endless, so i think a 2minute timer is a good thing.

- Coming from behind an island (enemy player didnt see u there before) and join a battle as reinforcement

- Players sailing alone in their Ship into unknown or enemy waters and get outnumbered in battle

- A big enemy Fleet(Zerg) find me and is blocking my escape ways and sink me.

- A Special Forces Team / Pirate group looking in deep enemy waters to capture unprotected Trader Players

- After the Special Forces Team / Pirate group finished the enemy trader, they are sourrounded and outnumbered by a bigger military fleet

- A small Ship was used as bait and enemies attacking the player. After that a much bigger fleet joins as reinforcement and sinks the enemies.

...

 

All these things using valid OW game mechanics to get advantage for battles. Should absolutely be in a OW game. This is Tactics.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Sven Silberbart

[KuroNyra]

- High Level Player groups ganking low Level players at Starting areas (We need big Save Zones or low Lvl Protection)

...

Agree, we need some place who don't allow ennemy nation to attack players in certain zone, a bit like the Capitale zone with one exception...

Guys who are from the country CAN tag the ennemy in there water.

[Long Beard]

But positional reinforcing remains?  So now all the gankers have to do is tag someone with one fast ship then they can position themselves all around in OW as they see fit and cut off any hope the victim has of escape.  Awesome.

 

Don't get me wrong, positional reinforcements was a good, realistic addition to the game.  OW is time on fast forward though so the 1.5x BR difference made sense, but could have used some tweaking.

 

People shouldn't be able to join outside of the initial tag circle at all considering they're moving in fast forward while the people stuck in the battle are stationary.  There shouldn't be any invisibility timers, invulnerability should be limited to a very short period so the player has time to actually load the scene and get moving, and all that should matter is who is in the tag circle.  If you were invulnerable while in the tag circle and someone initiates a battle, you should have the option to join in, but no one from outside the tag circle should be allowed to join at any point after as they are simply "too far away" (in real-time) to help.

 

Please add your voice to this thread: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13481-positional-reinforcements-feedback-thread-come-out-with-your-hands-up-youre-completely-surrounded/

[Nordtman]

I hate to get ganked as well as anyone else, loosing 1 dura for nothing.

But I understand also that this is a game that requires interaction between players in a nation/clan.

 

Ganking is part of the play, the gameplay.

trying to prevent it by gamemechanics is not the way to solve it.

 

(Note, following text refers to history: not the game)

 

Valuble transports was in convoys, protected by nation navy.

Big line ships did not sail alone.

Privateers/pirates didnt operate Close to naval bases (national Towns)

 

(end of referens to history)

 

It should be in a nations interest to protect its Waters from hostile elements.

The Nation is at war (even if some say diffrently).

Its in the enemies interest to damage the nation, by preventing traders to reach port and also to sink/capture ships.

If players do not realize this simple facts, why not just make all servers PvE and then the problem solved?

Or, maybe the players that does not want to be attacked could actully move to such a server?

 

Making a "halfthing" does not make anyone happy

[Mrdoomed]

I hate to get ganked as well as anyone else, loosing 1 dura for nothing.

But I understand also that this is a game that requires interaction between players in a nation/clan.

Ganking is part of the play, the gameplay.

trying to prevent it by gamemechanics is not the way to solve it.

(Note, following text refers to history: not the game)

Valuble transports was in convoys, protected by nation navy.

Big line ships did not sail alone.

Privateers/pirates didnt operate Close to naval bases (national Towns)

(end of referens to history)

It should be in a nations interest to protect its Waters from hostile elements.

The Nation is at war (even if some say diffrently).

Its in the enemies interest to damage the nation, by preventing traders to reach port and also to sink/capture ships.

If players do not realize this simple facts, why not just make all servers PvE and then the problem solved?

Or, maybe the players that does not want to be attacked could actully move to such a server?

Making a "halfthing" does not make anyone happy

What youre saying is how i feel too. Unfortunately by having endless quests aka missions just outside a ports doorstep and now epic raids or epic events are so plentiful there is no reason for players to even care about protection of thier trade ships or large slow ships etc.

Those large slow sol wandering about are usually loaded full of carronads so they too can just go hide in missions all day.

The only time we hear from the mission grinders is when some big bully pvp player jumps them on the way to a mission. Then said pvp player is called ganker , griefer , or NA bully.

The pvp server has basically become a pve server anyways and the people pvping are only getting in the way.

Like you , i wonder why they just don't make it all pve servers with the exeption of even well orchestrated port battle.

Or remove quests from pvp servers and just add the occasional random events to the ow so they are actually epic events when one is triggered. If 80% of the server cant hide in quests all day till they log off then they may start playing a little more historicaly correct like you mentioned.

[Sureshot]

Devs, you actually were going down the right path on this one and caved to lazy zergers where numbers mean everything and skill means a whole heck of a lot less.

 

So true. But who needs skilled PvP anyway? The zergers don't have it so they come to the forum to complain and now we are stuck with bigger numbers wins kind of PvP. Great... 

[Neptune]

Zerg players are going to love this new reinforcement/spawn mechanic. They must be drooling now that the BR system is taken out so they can really use the new mechanic. They will try to make the game boring as possible for players not in a zerg. Should be great fun over the next few weeks for those not in a zerg.

 

This game is going to be just like EVE. That is what the zergs want, they don't care for skilled PvP they just want number based PvP, so they are guaranteed a win and don't need to worry about sinking or getting captured. This is the PvP we get, so awesome! Naval EvE Action 2016. Why bother making a good combat system?

 

One of the most unique combat systems in any game ever, and we won't get to use in open world PvP because every fight is going to be a gank coupled with being able to join from infront, behind or beside the enemy. You can't even run anymore!

Edited April 22, 2016 by Acadian44

[Slamz]

That's why some of us are posting alternative ideas.

 

Removing 1.5 BR solved some problems but, as we knew it would, re-opened some old problems (invisible joiners).

 

The link I just gave is a very simple way to solve the problem. Not getting much feedback on it, positive or negative, but I don't see the downside to it.

[fox2run]

That's why some of us are posting alternative ideas.

 

Removing 1.5 BR solved some problems but, as we knew it would, re-opened some old problems (invisible joiners).

 

The link I just gave is a very simple way to solve the problem. Not getting much feedback on it, positive or negative, but I don't see the downside to it.

I never thought that invisible joiners could be a problem - it was more of a thing that made the battles unpredicting and dangerous... I remember once in a battle when an english fleet of 20 (!) SOLs showed up in front of our small screening fleet... never I have seen the odds changed so fast in a battle... 

[Jerome]

Awesome! Step in the right direction.

[Quarios]

The invisible joiners problem is easily solved, by forcing people to leave the battle once its over.

[Crippen]

atm Open World battle starting rules are broken. Removing the 1.5 BR difference rule and leaving it possible to surround an opponent by joining around the reinforcement circle is going to kill the game. Giving attackers the overwhelmiing advantage of waiting till the battle starts and joining anywhere on the map they chose with as many ships as they want gives NO  chance for the defender to win. This is so lopsided that no-one will sail in groups smaller than 10. If you do sail by yourself your dead in this envirnment. I am quitin the pvp side of this game until this is fixed and if its not I will be deleting the game. I am sure more will do the same.

 

 

P.S. If you care about your game, pick a GOOD open world pvp system and stick to it, If you chose to listen to only pve or only pvp players your game will die. Finding a good balance is key. you will always have these feuding groups at the launch of a game trying to make the game better for themselves and sometimes even trying to ruin it for others, you wont please everyone.

 

 

Defensive tagging was a legit tactic. Trying to combat it with this is bad move. If your faster than most ships in a fleet chasing you and only one of them is able to catch you seems historically accurate for that ship to be closest at battle start.  Though I'm sure you made the guy that sails around in a 1st rate with a bunch of frigates happy, he will never miss out on the fight now no matter how slow his ship is...in fact he will get to start the fight in front of what he could not catch.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Crippen

[Captain]

Isn't there a PVE server for people who dont like PvP?

[Neptune]

Isn't there a PVE server for people who dont like PvP?

 

Ganks aren't PvP, that's trolling. What gankers are trying to make the enemy have a piss poor boring time on the game. Real PvP? Unfair fights, 3v6, 4v8, 12v19, 14v22, 7v13, 9v14 and so on. Ganks aren't PvP, it doesn't take skill, it just takes a bunch of unorganized gankers to have a fir trinco or reno tackler then the rest pile in surround them and do what they need to do. That isn't PvP...  It's not even close. That isn't fun or even worth your time.