Alexander Reher Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) To be fair, I'd much rather be in the position of Spain and stay stubborn than to be in the position of Sweden and France. The Spaniards fight with the same conviction they always have and that is admirable. I could only hope that if GB ever, no matter how unlikely(or likely) anyone considers it, got brought down to only Kingston, we'd keep doing the same even if we determined we'd never take anything back. I find it disheartening that we as a nation are attempting to leave them with a minimal amount of ports, i don't enjoy the practice. Then again how do you conduct diplomacy between a nation that has previously stubbornly refused it with others during similar circumstances and a nation who is dead set to keep going until the other is forced to the table. Unfortunately or fortunately i don't think there is any being forced to the table in this game because can only ultimately lose by losing your player base, since capitals are unconquerable. Reducing someone to capital just means concentrating every single player on that faction to the their capital making resistance fiercer in the area. Unless they don't have to morale to fight, but Spain constantly having suffered setbacks most certainly does because it's no different from how it's always been. Pride is something that needs to be put aside for both nations, it's past time to let diplomacy prevail. The attacks or acts purposeful sabotage by Spanish clans to keep the war going this way, that previously happened during diplomatic meetings, can be dealt with whenever and wherever even if they were to continue, at best they are a slight annoyance even when taking or attempting to take ports. It would be fantastic to have the slate wiped clean and hopefully having learned from our mistakes have a better go at it next time, but any type of wipe seems to unlikely for the foreseeable future. On both sides we now only have ourselves to blame for the holes we dug. Edited March 16, 2016 by Alexander Reher 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potemkin Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Cheers Mr Reher, may the wind be always at your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Arlington Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Actually, Potemkin, this is the point. We don's want to. We wanted to end this senceless war but than again some british-playing guy is writing about that and instead of listening and thinking about what the other side maybe would feel and think about it you're just insulting the whole thing I tried to bring to you as "bullshit". Very good, Sir, Bravo ... It seams like you are forgetting that behind every PC-Screen on the british side there is also just a player who wants to enyoj this game with all of you. We offer hands and got a slap for nothing than reacting to your decisions. Maybe harsh, maybe with full force but hey at the moment we started it we thought about not having any choice. We want to find solutions as you do but we seam to be the only ones talking about mistakes on both sides while you are complaining like we are the devil in person. This leads to nothing. But okay, if you decide to fight on, okay it will be a pleasure to have some fun with you guys. But in this case stop complaining about we treat you like we are at war with you guys. If not, come to the table, stop this war, talk with us to regain your power and good luck next time. And this is noch ironically. I mean it. Edited March 16, 2016 by Jonathan Arlington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potemkin Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) I was replying to Dark Fenix, not you dude. sorry for any confusion. Im just gonna let this one play out before posting anything else. Edited March 16, 2016 by Potemkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Arlington Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Ah okay. In this case, sorry. Althought this is also a good example about this heaty discussion I think. How fast some misunderstanding leads to some new rumor. Edited March 16, 2016 by Jonathan Arlington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potemkin Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Honestly all the other crap aside, I've been having a lot of fun with the PvP against u guys, and for the most part its been civil at the end of battles. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius Magnus Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Rumour has it España is fostering an Armada of undead Conquistadores under La Habana ground. Ready your powder . And enjoy it! Edited March 16, 2016 by Nehaektas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 First off We need to drop all the insults, blame games etc etc between Spain and Britain, its not making both nations look good. Secondly instead of just saying we need both sides to come to the table and agree to peace, why don't we actually get the ball moving with suggestions of what that peace would entail. Thirdly what i am suggesting is based off another game's way of solving war/peace treaties, aka Crusader Kings 2. Fourthly this is just solely a suggestion on how Spain and Britain can come to a peace deal that both sides will be happy with, i do not speak for the british nation/council or my clan in this. I speak mainly as a player that is fed up of having to tp to fight on three different fronts while also trying to grind myself up levels. Treaty/Peace deal suggestion In CK2 you needed a reason to declare war, no matter what anyone wants to say the main reason for war can be agreed to as being for South Cuba. Britain wanted to get this though negotiations after helping the spanish with the Americans, Spain wanted to keep what they had and also regain there ports that were part of a trade or gift a while ago with/to SLRN before RAE went to panama, before the council was made etc etc.Now the way i see it is that Britain has won this war, they have caused the most damage within this war all up between both nations and should by rights keep these ports. What that means is if we go by the CK2 way of dealing with things is that South Cuba stays british but all other ports that were spanish before the war goes back to being spanish. To solve the issue of Coal. gold, fir etc for spain i would suggest they also take Northern Yucatan (Conil, Cuyo, Salem and Ysil). A border would be established from Contoy - Corrientes which will remain british, Ports to the south of this will remain british. All ports to the west of Contoy aka From and including as i said Conil will go spanish.Fleet PVP is allowed between the two nations however port attacks will not be for lets say 2 months or until the wipe (whichever comes first). After a month this can be renegotiated by both parties depending on how relations are between now and then.The Gulf of Mexico would be handed over 1 week after the treaty was accepted with the Northern Yucatan following a week later. This is to ensure all british captains have the chance to get there stuff out of the gulf without having to do that long sail in one day/week if they have multiple ships, items etc down in that region.During this 2 week period no Fleet PVP would be allowed by both sides to give a chance for players of both nations to move back to the gulf (for spanish players) or to move to south cuba/Western Yucatan/Other part of the British Empire (for British Players). Now i just want to make myself clear one more time what i put in the Spoiler is a Suggestion for a treaty/peace deal that both nations could agree to in order to end this senseless war, i do not represent my clan when making this post or the british nation at all. I would suggest both sides take this suggestion to there relative councils/clans and come up with something of the same and organise with the other nation a date and a time when both/all parties can sit down and work out a final treaty. Jager 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobogris Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 We dont want your peace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llewellyn Jones RN Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 And back in the real world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) We dont want your peace. Is there some official decision of the major Spanish clans taken on the topic? In this case it should made public in a more "formal" way. It's in the interest of all Spanish faction player knowing the official position of the clans on this topic. Edited March 17, 2016 by victor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llewellyn Jones RN Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 We dont want your peace.It does not have to be peace just a nap for a certain period. 1-2 months as Jäger said after that we can resume this war if Spain wants. Lobogris this is part of the reason we are where we are today. The lack of patiance within Spain, the lack of unity in Spain which I am very glad to see long may it continue is part of the reas we are in this mess if you don't want talk it over then I suggest you patch those leaking hulls and ready your muskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Is there some official decision of the major Spanish clans taken on the topic? In this case it should made public in a more "formal" way. It's in the interest of all Spanish faction player knowing the official position of the clans on this topic. Sorry but the topic "Spain is dead" is not the best place to ask us about that..... I find this topic offensive..... I don't know if this is our official decision or not...... I just can tell us that spain is not dead..... If you want any negotiation with spain, please call our diplomacy members..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Sorry but the topic "Spain is dead" is not the best place to ask us about that..... I find this topic offensive..... I don't know if this is our official decision or not...... I just can tell us that spain is not dead..... If you want any negotiation with spain, please call our diplomacy members..... Hey compay, I'm a Spanish faction player. And the problem I that I still do not understand which is the official position of the majority of spanish clans on this important matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvar Fañez de Minaya Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Hey compay, I'm a Spanish faction player. And the problem I that I still do not understand which is the official position of the majority of spanish clans on this important matter! I know victor, but this topic is not the best place to talk about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsunamiEmperor Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) If Spain's wants peace then why do all their members keep crying for war? Does GB stop taking ports, relying on Spain's good nature and sense of honour? If you think we should then send your diplomats and we'll talk..... A peace in chains is not peace, it's slavery, and that's what you British either don't have the self-awareness to see in yourselves, or enjoy playing dumb in order to plead ignorance when the day comes that you are cornered with the facts of the matter. We've already spoken, and all I got when discussing very simple issues with you and your fellows in your faction were circular arguments and lame excuses. Excuses like "if we give back these ports, the troops will revolt!", or "these ports aren't your ports just because they were once Spanish" when you know full well how valuable the ports that were being discussed were to the health of the faction and it's player base. Throughout the entire discussion you'd keep going back to "Pepe did this and that" while at the same time talking about how we should leave everything in the past and move forward, as if this absolved you of your duty as allies to give us a fair deal and fulfill the promises you made to our faction as far as sovereignty was concerned. Instead you clung to Pepe attacking you in the south of Cuba, a problem which was solved in the same day that it happened, a problem you failed to follow up on the success of the solution put forward. You decided to milk this issue and pushed full forward to continue annexing Cuba and holding onto the Yucatan ports that you were requested to assist in retaking due to the timers being set at a time that the Spanish nation could not retake due to the nature of how late it was. You instead chose to capitalize on your own failures in diplomacy, and then have the gall to use those ports like doggy treats to attack the pirates just for the sake of attacking them in the north side of Cuba. No self respecting nation would ever accept that deal, and I told you this the second you put it on the table, but you still pressed the issue until I took it back to the Spanish community and received the exact response we both knew was coming. Pepe was taken out of the picture as far as diplomacy was concerned, and you still failed to come to an agreement with parties who were willing to compensate you justly for your efforts in retaking vital ports to the Spanish nation, you instead chose to take advantage of the situation in a spineless and manipulative manner that was deemed unacceptable by our nation. You think because we left to the pirates that we've simply abandoned our comrades in Spain? Keep dreaming, your nation has a rude awakening coming it's way, and it's heralds are tearing your faction apart from all directions. Your warped reality of being the victims, being true gentlemen in negotiations will evaporate in the coming weeks with the countless enemies you've made throughout your endeavors as leaders of your nation. Had your leaders possessed the competence, the foresight, whatever it is that you people lack particularly, you could have avoided all of this. Instead, you chose greed, manipulation, and now your greedy port acquiring has acquired you far more than you bargained for. You should take notes from the pirates you look down upon, when I spoke to them they exuded strength in their terms and how we would go about them. They were not riddled in insecurities and excuses, they were sealed in reasonable promises and firm projections towards the future and trust was built on these foundations. The loyalty that myself and the former members of RACC have for our nation do not simply disappear with a change of flags, you'll learn this eventually if it hasn't already become apparent to you in the past few days. Edit: Don't get me wrong though, I actually prefer things to play out this way, your faction is way too strong as is and our only option for PvP would've been to go back down and fight the Dutch on our timezone. Especially after witnessing the gracious terms the Danes gave to their once former enemies and our allies, the French, it should tell you something when enemies can come to proper and generous terms better than you can come to terms with your own allies. Edited March 17, 2016 by TsunamiEmperor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I know victor, but this topic is not the best place to talk about that. Ok, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 In that case please can someone start a new thread, let's try and patch things up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 A peace in chains is not peace, it's slavery, and that's what you British either don't have the self-awareness to see in yourselves, or enjoy playing dumb in order to plead ignorance when the day comes that you are cornered with the facts of the matter. We've already spoken, and all I got when discussing very simple issues with you and your fellows in your faction were circular arguments and lame excuses. Excuses like "if we give back these ports, the troops will revolt!", or "these ports aren't your ports just because they were once Spanish" when you know full well how valuable the ports that were being discussed were to the health of the faction and it's player base. Throughout the entire discussion you'd keep going back to "Pepe did this and that" while at the same time talking about how we should leave everything in the past and move forward, as if this absolved you of your duty as allies to give us a fair deal and fulfill the promises you made to our faction as far as sovereignty was concerned. Instead you clung to Pepe attacking you in the south of Cuba, a problem which was solved in the same day that it happened, a problem you failed to follow up on the success of the solution put forward. You decided to milk this issue and pushed full forward to continue annexing Cuba and holding onto the Yucatan ports that you were requested to assist in retaking due to the timers being set at a time that the Spanish nation could not retake due to the nature of how late it was. You instead chose to capitalize on your own failures in diplomacy, and then have the gall to use those ports like doggy treats to attack the pirates just for the sake of attacking them in the north side of Cuba. No self respecting nation would ever accept that deal, and I told you this the second you put it on the table, but you still pressed the issue until I took it back to the Spanish community and received the exact response we both knew was coming. Pepe was taken out of the picture as far as diplomacy was concerned, and you still failed to come to an agreement with parties who were willing to compensate you justly for your efforts in retaking vital ports to the Spanish nation, you instead chose to take advantage of the situation in a spineless and manipulative manner that was deemed unacceptable by our nation. You think because we left to the pirates that we've simply abandoned our comrades in Spain? Keep dreaming, your nation has a rude awakening coming it's way, and it's heralds are tearing your faction apart from all directions. Your warped reality of being the victims, being true gentlemen in negotiations will evaporate in the coming weeks with the countless enemies you've made throughout your endeavors as leaders of your nation. Had your leaders possessed the competence, the foresight, whatever it is that you people lack particularly, you could have avoided all of this. Instead, you chose greed, manipulation, and now your greedy port acquiring has acquired you far more than you bargained for. You should take notes from the pirates you look down upon, when I spoke to them they exuded strength in their terms and how we would go about them. They were not riddled in insecurities and excuses, they were sealed in reasonable promises and firm projections towards the future and trust was built on these foundations. The loyalty that myself and the former members of RACC have for our nation do not simply disappear with a change of flags, you'll learn this eventually if it hasn't already become apparent to you in the past few days. I know you were responding to charles, but that is why i did say fuck the past and move on, start afresh with Peace not allies, not one nation demanding the other what to do, just peace and being neutral. That surely would be acceptable to both nations. On the topic of ports see my post, if you don't like what i said suggest something new, add to it, take from it, change it the fuck about i don't care, just for fucks sakes make peace between the nations as this war is senseless, both sides were at fault i admit that, now lets move on and start afresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Alexander Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Most of us do want to see Spain as a strong and trustworthy nation. Nobody want to see a nation reduced to just a few ports, because that effects player base dramastically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Started a new topic about the treaty idea that i suggested on the last page. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12136-spain-british-peace-suggestion-pvp-1/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsunamiEmperor Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) I know you were responding to charles, but that is why i did say fuck the past and move on, start afresh with Peace not allies, not one nation demanding the other what to do, just peace and being neutral. That surely would be acceptable to both nations. On the topic of ports see my post, if you don't like what i said suggest something new, add to it, take from it, change it the fuck about i don't care, just for fucks sakes make peace between the nations as this war is senseless, both sides were at fault i admit that, now lets move on and start afresh. If your nation can't reconcile giving back vital ports to the Spanish, our vendetta against you doesn't end until your faction is completely pacified in a corner of the world all to yourselves. I won't presume to speak for Spain at this point, but one way or another the disputed territories that your faction refuses to return to Spain will be returned to them one way or another, you can either give them up or lose them in bloody conflict. At this point diplomacy has proven fruitless, and after what I've experienced with your faction's diplomats, I and the rest of us who have chosen to continue the fight as privateers on a front that accommodates our time schedules better, this is the only way it seems that will happen. Honestly though, I'd continue to fight us wherever you can, because you've pushed us to the point of no return. As pirates, we fight for as long as we are told to fight, and we accommodate our long term goals as they arrive. Edit: I saw your latest post, as I am no longer technically Spanish, I'll leave that discussion up to Spain and yourselves. The point of my post is to let both Spain know that we have not abandoned them, and you know that you've made terrible enemies upon your conduct with us when we attempted to unite the faction. If you happen to come to a deal with Spain, and it benefits them as it should without crippling strings attached, then I will rest easy for Spain. I just hope they don't sell themselves short in desperation, because time is the only thing Spain needs right now. Edited March 17, 2016 by TsunamiEmperor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 If your on about South Cuba, then suggest it on the other topic on why Britain who techically has won the war for South Cuba should give it back, they still get vital ports as you say, just not those ones back which seems to be the main cause of the war was South Cuba. Spain wanted the other Southern Cuban ports, and Britain wanted the Islands etc etc. War broke out and now we have it to where we are now. Logically speaking in a war like this back then, those ports would be annexed into The British Empire and Spain would have made peace and gave into the demands of the british for them. If it was vise versa and spain took the british ports in that area then Spain of course would have them. End of the day they still get there vital Coal, Gold and Fir ports which they can build Production buildings at, just not the ones in South Cuba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Zoutman Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 And I assume the multiple fronts the Brits have to face now got nothing to do with this offering of peace? That's what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Alexander Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 And I assume the multiple fronts the Brits have to face now got nothing to do with this offering of peace? That's what I thought. It's probably not that, Most of us got really tired of non stop port battles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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