Spain is dead ? (PVP1)

[Gaizka]

Most if not all or the British captains want spain to be a nation like when we were allied with them, but their actions (or the actions or some clans in their nation) made it so that if we let them be they'd backstab us, with the balance of power at the time, destroying most of their nation was a far easier task for us than dealing with their hilarious demands.

They seized the opportunity to attack us and broke diplomacy when the pirates started making a push in Haiti along with the Danes, now they are reaping what they sowed.

 

We don't think we have a ''right'' to conquer smaller nations,but we believe nation size should be balanced by amount of players and what they can reasonably, not by some untenable historical position, we tried helping Spain when the Americans attacked it. We don't have the ''right'' to vassalize them but we sure have the power to destroy them if they backstab us and tell us to f*** off.

 

If they want to negotiate and make peace i'm the sure diplomats on the british side will hear them, but they need to make reasonable demands and until then well our west flank is pretty darn secure.

 

I am quite shocked of what I am reading here.

 

1.- Who atacked who exactly? You wanted to befriend Spain by taking all their ports?

2.-Who decides what is reasonable for other nations? The Stronger one?

3.- Please press "M" and tell me what kind of benefit did Spain get from traying to ally with Britain.

4.- You have the power to destroy us? You have the power to take our ports. Destroying us is a completly diferent think. And no, you dont have the power to do so.

5.- At this point both parts think they have been backstabed. Dont think your point of view is the only "real/valid" one.

6.- The "hilarious" demands made were quite accurate taking into account the people playing as Spanish at that point. Dont laugh at others and spect to be respected by them.

7.- Britain didnt help Spain against the US. We helped each other. Thats how treaties should be.

8.- Now we are reaping what we sowed? I thought the whole server (but the americans) is at war with britain atm. Looks like we are not the only ones who sowed.

9.- Diplomacy without an implemented system ingame is going to be hard (to say it with a polite word). Please dont make it harder with statements that only show ignorance about how things have happened.

 

Regarding the different diplos. You may be right there.

I only talked as Diplo when I was voted for that job. I allway made clear who I was representing. If someone else is coming to you (british) at this point I can asure you he is not representing Spain as a nation.

You are right there, but for your information that problem happened to some extent with Brits also. (As I said it is going to be hard to have an efective diplo system without implementing somthing ingame)

 

I still think Britain and Spain should be natural allies, but that is not going to happen anytime soon. Lets play smart and learn from our mistakes since both sides have made a few.

 

Gaizka

[Hethwill]

they'll never hold their historical ports, because this is not a game based on history.

 

It surely doesn't mimic history, gladly, but having a strong startup based in history is okay.

 

Main issue is the "nationalism" but that is a silly player issue in a global village.

 

When the main internal diplomacy thread of a nation is dealt in the REAL WORLD nation language without concern for the international game nation player base you know that nation is doomed.

[Ian2492]

It surely doesn't mimic history, gladly, but having a strong startup based in history is okay.

 

Main issue is the "nationalism" but that is a silly player issue in a global village.

 

When the main internal diplomacy thread of a nation is dealt in the REAL WORLD nation language without concern for the international game nation player base you know that nation is doomed.

 

Having a strong startup is actually a huge disadvantage, as you cannot set a timer on ports you start with. This is one of the reason of spain's downfall.

[Skor81]

When two British clans attacked the Spaniards in Panama , the Spanish faction not declare war against the British , however when a Spanish clan attacked you in the south of Cuba if that you declare war on all spanish .
You could just have recovered ports and agreed to an honorable peace with most of the Spaniards who probably would have accepted but did you choose to humble us .
Now when we no longer have much to lose, you want us surrender and and humble ourselves before you

When you can no longer lose any more , there is only pride and honor , that you can not remove us

In addition, the French, the only faction that has always honored our alliance, have declared war on you, believe it or not we do not betray our true allies .
I was among those who wanted to make peace with you, but now I only see you as enemies.

 

 

Understand , you are the most powerful nation , it´s normal that the other nations are obliged to face against you.

Our nation is almost defeated , we just try to have fun until the wipe.

[Ian2492]

I am quite shocked of what I am reading here.

 

1.- Who atacked who exactly? You wanted to befriend Spain by taking all their ports?

2.-Who decides what is reasonable for other nations? The Stronger one?

3.- Please press "M" and tell me what kind of benefit did Spain get from traying to ally with Britain.

4.- You have the power to destroy us? You have the power to take our ports. Destroying us is a completly diferent think. And no, you dont have the power to do so.

5.- At this point both parts think they have been backstabed. Dont think your point of view is the only "real/valid" one.

6.- The "hilarious" demands made were quite accurate taking into account the people playing as Spanish at that point. Dont laugh at others and spect to be respected by them.

7.- Britain didnt help Spain against the US. We helped each other. Thats how treaties should be.

8.- Now we are reaping what we sowed? I thought the whole server (but the americans) is at war with britain atm. Looks like we are not the only ones who sowed.

9.- Diplomacy without an implemented system ingame is going to be hard (to say it with a polite word). Please dont make it harder with statements that only show ignorance about how things have happened.

 

Regarding the different diplos. You may be right there.

I only talked as Diplo when I was voted for that job. I allway made clear who I was representing. If someone else is coming to you (british) at this point I can asure you he is not representing Spain as a nation.

You are right there, but for your information that problem happened to some extent with Brits also. (As I said it is going to be hard to have an efective diplo system without implementing somthing ingame)

 

I still think Britain and Spain should be natural allies, but that is not going to happen anytime soon. Lets play smart and learn from our mistakes since both sides have made a few.

 

Gaizka

 

1) There are multiple narratives to that story, RAE broke their treaty with SLRN and attack south cuba while we were busy with the pirates at Les Gonaives. I cannot speak for other clan's situations.

2) Nations should accept that their port amount should be relative to their fraction of the playerbase (Reasonable demands would dictate that if you have 10% of the playerbase, then you should be able to hold 10% of the ports, demanding more under threat of war is excessive)

3) Again, the current map situation doesn't reflect the situation when we were allied, right now we are not and that's what the map shows.

4) I meant the power to take your ports, My intentions are not to wipe the spanish players and chase them off of their nations, I personally have not taken part into 1 PB against spain, i'm only talking as a general british player.

5) I agree, some of spain feel they got backstabbed by britain because SLRN cannot force all of the british to agree to their diplomacy (which is alright, i'm not saying otherwise). Some players feel they got backstabbed by the spanish because of the same reasons.

6) I have heard many different diplo talks, some of which were very reasonable, others which were the ones i'm referring to as ''hillarious'' I don't mean to offend whoever was part of the reasonable ones.

7) US didn't attack britain, we were busy on another front, and we came by to help take US ports, which eventually led to us losing haiti.

8) Sweden, US, VP are all neutral with most of britain as far as I know. Pirates and Danes have been stopped in their advance, Spain is in no position to push into what we consider ''our'' territory we'll see what the french declaration of war changes in due time

9) I agree a diplo system is required if we want clans to fall in line and respect the majority's view on diplo. I'm sorry if you felt my comments were ignorant but i was replying to someone acting far more ignorant (Maturin's posts)

 

I hope we'll be back to our neutral/allied state soon enough, but I'm curious to see how that will be achieved with the current mechanics. I think the clans that attack spain (read: not me) have shown what they wanted to show and it's time for cessation of hostilities, but that is of course, my own opinion and might not be shared.

Again, I'm not a diplomat and i'm only sharing my personal view of the situation as a single player.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Ian2492

[victor]

The more I read this topic, the more I realize that there is no room for diplomacy where idiots on both parts go on pouriong gasoline on the fire.

 

I just hope the leaders of the two nations will talk to each other.

 

In the meantime you can go on having fur in insulting each other at will. But for God's sake (and for readers' benefit), try to be at least original in doing that.

Edited March 15, 2016 by victor

[Gaizka]

The underlying elephant in the room here is that Spain thinks it DESERVES the Yucatan and other distant ports, because it was alloted that at the map outset.  This IS NOT REAL LIFE.  Your player base is not capable of holding those ports..  Hell, from what I see EVERYONE has already over-extended themselves at least once since EA launch.  Yes, you were dealt a shitty hand in that you were put smack dab in the middle of ALL the other factions.  However, simple reasoning should have made it obvious that you would have needed to focus on diplomacy, given that position.  Instead, you ended up having the MOST INEPT series of "diplomats" that basically ensured you would lose.  So, in a nutshell, instead of ceding SOME ports (that you couldnt defend anyway), and having one or two close allies, you bet it ALL on the advice of shitty "leaders" and ended up pissing people off and losing EVERYTHING.  And the final insult is that those "leaders" didnt really give a shit about Spain in the end...  They gelded themselves and turned "Pirate"...    arrrr, and all that other pirate-y bullshit.  Wheee, my flag is black.......  and stuff.

To some extent I have to agree that Spanish diplomats havent made a good work. (Please insert the name Gaizka here too. I asumed that everyone in the clans I was representing had been informed and agreed in the diplo actions taken). The point is that after each mistake britain had more ports and Spain less. This has given the Spanish player base the idea that UK is using diplomacy only as a way to "get more" Please press "M" and judge by yourself if the idea is completly wrong.

 

Simple reasoning was applied at some point and some frontiers were stablished. The treaty was destroyed because 9 guys didnt act as agreed. 9 guys. Britain had 2 roge clans atacking Spain for months.

 

Instead of talking and giving time to solve the issue, you have taken all the Spanish ports you have been able to take.

 

I cant blame england for saying we had shity leaders. Most of us dont agree with the actions taken either. But we are staying  Spanish to try to solve it. Some defected to pirates? I dont like it either but they are free to do so and you can trust me that playing as Spanish is not fun unless you have the required mindset. 

I am quite sure most of them will come back sooner or later.

 

We have made mistakes, we are traying to learn from them and we are paying for them (having more fun than ever in the process)

 

Now, again, all the server but the US is at war with Great Britain. If you still think you didnt make mistakes, think about it again.

[Alado]

La Habana has no actual beach, you may be meaning Playa del Este

I have a beach in la Habana, i have more wine and cigars, and i ask again, brits, when you surrender?

[Gaizka]

I have a beach in la Habana, i have more wine and cigars, and i ask again, brits, when you surrender?

 

Thats not helping, but I thing they got the idea allready 

[Llewellyn Jones RN]

To be honest you would still have had Mexico and the western half of the Yucatan and probably most of the top half giving Spain more than they had last week. But you nations attacks at Misteriosa stopped all that was possible but Spain's demands and that Attacked coupled with attacks at Cockadrillo and the shallow ports there changed that hence forth you now are stuck where you are with 4 ports.

Now I had wished you had all held of and been a bit more reasonable with your demands for I am sure a consensus would have been reached.

[GrapeShot]

As an unbiased observer it is clearly all the fault of the perfidious Dons and the duplicitous Englanders. Only the Yanks can be called blameless in this sordid affair.

[Alado]

Thats not helping, but I thing they got the idea allready 

Its a joke...... but when they surrender?? i give  24 hours to surrender, if no ......

Edited March 15, 2016 by Alado

[Ignatius Magnus]

I don't know Spain, but the horse IS.

[Wang]

Ok here how it goes.

 

Both sides need to stop talking trash and talking about 'what happened'.

 

Everyone has different perspective and sides, some people are informed, others are not.   

 

Please leave the diplomacy to the diplomats....this thread is pointless. 

[cartoy]

i don´t know guys but british and US should give spain a rest, for the sake of the game... yeah we all know that spain has acted bad because of bad diplomacy, but don´t blame the whole nation because some people, some spaniards (as me before i joined pirates) were tired of bad moves from our leaders, the inner fights... the problem was that spain was rotten to the core, and anyone could see this, i dont blame entirely my fellow countrymen, i understand that losing lots of ports to the US at the beginning made us doubt about the alliance with Britain, even some independent captains started to take hostilites against british ports,which in my opinion needed a punishment but not to spain, only those rebel captains that acted against our treaty, then you have to understand that Spain was not organiced (as i said, there was inner fights between clans) and you know that one/few clan/s could not control an entire faction, our leaders fault? maybe... but you killed us all and conquered all our ports because of bad decisions of them, I know that now i am a pirate, (and proud of it, i must say) but i was with the spanish nation once and i dont really want it to die so i ask you mighty nations, Don´t you think that spain deserves a second chance in the caribbean? even if it is hostile, just for the sake of everyone having fun together and playing the pvp we love of this game.

Just think about it mates, thanks for your attention.

 

Saludos y buena proa compañeros. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by cartoy

[Wang]

i don´t know guys but british and US should give spain a rest, for the sake of the game... yeah we all know that spain has acted bad because of bad diplomacy, but don´t blame the whole nation because some people, some spaniards (as me before i joined pirates) were tired of bad moves from our leaders, the inner fights... the problem was that spain was rotten to the core, and anyone could see this, i dont blame entirely my fellow countrymen, i understand that losing lots of ports to the US at the beginning made us doubt about the alliance with Britain, even some independent captains started to take hostilites against british ports,which in my opinion needed a punishment but not to spain, only those rebel captains that acted against our treaty, then you have to understand that Spain was not organiced (as i said, there was inner fights between clans) and you know that one/few clan/s could not control an entire faction, our leaders fault? maybe... but you killed us all and conquered all our ports because of bad decisions of them, I know that now i am a pirate, (and proud of it, i must say) but i was with the spanish nation once and i dont really want it to die so i ask you mighty nations, Don´t you think that spain deserves a second chance in the caribbean? even if it is hostile, just for the sake of everyone having fun together and playing the pvp we love of this game.

Just think about it mates, thanks for your attention.

 

Saludos y buena proa compañeros. 

 

Of course, and trust me in the negotiations we had with spain before last weekend was trying to help spain set up borders, to get production facilitates set up, and to have a nice missioning area for new spanish players to level.  We want a strong spain!

 

The issue is we dont want a strong spain who attacks us while we are over the other side of the map defending our other ports, or fighting pirates.  If spain got together and said 'we are united' and talk with once voice and we have a fair plan to end this war.  Britain would not only listen but welcome it!  The issue is, Spain is divided as a nation.  They have warmongers who want this war until the end.  So what can we do?

 

At this point, the only option we have is to take spain down to a single port to hope the warmongers want peace.

 

Britain always wanted a alliance with spain, we dont want a western front! it makes no strategic sense to us...

Edited March 16, 2016 by Wang

[Jack Marslow]

Agree with Wang. If we could trust ALL of spain to not attack Id say give them the Northern Yucatan. That's a lot of good ports. Problem is, some people wont be happy with just getting that. They would want more so they attack for more. I'm just a player so I don't carry any weight, but I'd rather be in the east sticking it to the pirates and the Danes. Why doesn't Spain want to attack the Pirates on North Cuba? 

[Jim]

Whole this issue shows need for true in-game diplomacy - cause any players agreement doesn't work at the moment.

 

It also shows quality of leaders on "both"(all) of sides, yes my bigest disappointments concerning leaders.

[Alado]

Why doesn't Spain want to attack the Pirates on North Cuba? 

 

 

 

some tells better jokes than me   :D

 

By north U.S.

By south BT

By east pirates?

and by west?, if you want, send us a hurricane

 

[Fletch]

Whole this issue shows need for true in-game diplomacy - cause any players agreement doesn't work at the moment.

 

It also shows quality of leaders on "both"(all) of sides, yes my bigest disappointments concerning leaders.

 

We currently have true in game diplomacy. It is totally created and driven by the players, you cannot get any more true in game than that.

What your asking for is outside intervention from the devs? why do we need the devs involved? The game is young and diplomacy is in its infancy why not wait and see how it pans out first before we get the rules changed?

[Ireson]

The Swedish and French didn't make demands on the Danes! The 'Russian' Danes from day one attacked them, we on the other hand especially the SLRN only ever supported Spain. You repaid us with treachery!

 

You first attack us when you thought our backs turned, you then demand ports from us for peace... always demanding, and giving nothing. Allies you say, alliances are a two way street and not a one way Calle!

 

Whats more ironic is the very same Spanish patriots, who negotiated for you, demanded from us have now left you in the dirt having gone Pirate.... Nice, and you still insist on British aggression.

 

only one nation has been owned, and they wear Red and Yellow!

 

Wake up!

 

You have never, ever, tried to help Spain in any way but keep up with the bullshit.

[Charles Caldwell]

You have never, ever, tried to help Spain in any way but keep up with the bullshit.

 

17 posts and now you know the History of the Spanish & British alliance... we were working well together pre & early EA before you cut your teeth in a Cutter.

[Wang]

Again people half in the know here.

 

If any spanish want to talk they know where to find me.

 

Instead of going around in circles on hear finger pointing.  

[victor]

Whole this issue shows need for true in-game diplomacy - cause any players agreement doesn't work at the moment.

 

[cut]

 

This!

[Justme]

Well let's just hope that by the time I get home today Spain only has their capital left.