Well I've given up

[Ruthless4u]

Been looking forward to this game for some time, given the lack of decent age of sail games. Sadly the time requirements will simply to much. With maybe 2 hours a day to play I don't see how it's possible to make progress.

Long travel times, battles that last over an hour I just don't see how this fits into the schedule of an average working person raising a family. I get that it makes me a filthy casual who only deserves to play Tetris at best in the eyes of the community, but that's the way it is. Bouncing back between 2 ports or taking a week to get somewhere is simply not worth it.

Take it easy guys, enjoy the game.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Ruthless4u

[TommyShelby]

We in TDA have plenty of players whom play maybe 1-2 hours a day at max in general. While they are not Rear Admirals most of them are able to fully man the frigates (Cerberus to Constitution). 

A bunch of them are also around lvl 40 in crafting. 

 

It takes like 3-15 minutes to move from one port to another. There is several areas where you can make an outpost and fight from.

 

You can, btw, get from Jamaica to Plymouth in about 1, maybe 1 and a half hour. (With a Santissima Trinidad that is. In my Trincomalee i can get from Jamaica to Plymouth in about 45 Minutes.) 

 

 

I hope you give the game a chance. I'm sure there will be stuff done to make it more viable for the average person with only a low amount of weekly playtime. 

[jodgi]

The game will work for you too. Most of the politics I do here in the forums is working towards making Naval Action fun for filthy casuals.

I may be casual+ but I'm still filthy

[Johny Reb]

Well I hope you come back and give it another shot when you hear about more content.

[Konali89]

You should not give up, especially now.

 

- With the introduction of "orders" from the events tab in port, you have the ability to find an equal fleet to fight with, instead of looking for them. Yes you still have to sail towards the event marked on your map but it is much more reliable and really suited for casual players.

- Every hour that you use wisely in this game will give you an advantage over new players from EA.

- Exploring and traveling might take a long time, but if you do not have that much time, you would know upfront it would not be one of the main focusses for you.

- In 2 hours you can have 3-4 good smaller battles , especially if you make use of the event thing.

 

Get your name out there, just join a TS of a guild, make casual friends, that makes the gameplay so much better , even if the time that is avaible is limited.

 

It's not easy, but its doable.

 

Konali

Edited November 29, 2015 by Konali89

['Sharpe]

The introduction of teleports (without your ship) will also help. Admin has hinted that these are planned.

As Konali said, communication with other players is key in this game. If you join a network or guild, you'll be able to much easier find the action and contribute than if you sail around by yourself. Guilds (the nice ones at least) will generally not care if you're only able to invest an hour a night, as you'll still be able to participate and help the effort.

Edited November 29, 2015 by 'Sharpe

[Ned Loe]

We are still testing , but I already can tell travel time is a game killer. Devs I hope you read this and fix it before it's too late.

 

-Divide world map into zones.

-Add spawn markers for each zone with timers and fee. 

-Make fee increase with each spawn to eliminate Trading exploit. 

 

With this system players will be able to spawn quickly where they need, but for a limited time and cost. So, plan your travel carefully. This also can mean, if there is an attack on your port you can spawn in that zone and defend the port. However, return cost will be pricey and will require player to wait for preset timer to reset or simply start activity in that zone until next reset. Big plus is once players attack certain port, player defenders fleet will show up and will remain in that zone for a long time. Both attacker players and defender players will fill 'hot' zones. This will only result in great pvp. After timer expires players who willing to pay for spawn can fast travel to another zones. Zone spawn cost and timer can go up or down and all depends on how is the unrest in the zone. If under heavy attack and player numbers are high, cost should decrease to stimulate player numbers in 'hot' zone. 

 

Note* Spawn markers will fast travel players to zone, players will still need to sail to desired destination and will take time. 

 

OR

 

Take a look into Potbs fast travel to ship mechanics. (World size is way smaller in Potbs). 

 

 

Have suggestions? Please share. 

[Ronald Speirs]

I feel i struggle to achieve much with my playing times, the game is quite time consuming and there is a need for a good teleport system to allow players to cut down on the no action or stale gameplay, quite alot can be taken from other age of sail games and be used to build a better system, like the teleport system on POTBS where you could book passage to the ports where you had a ship located, for this there is a cost that should associated with it, the further the distance the more it costs, the only issue with the teleport is when an attack happens then defenders all teleport back, weather of not people find that bad as it does promote action and PvP which isnt all bad, you should be only allowed to teleport to an outpost you have that has a docked ship there, no OS and ship teleports to stop other exploits, im sure we can figure something out to make the gameplay have greater chances of activities and progression

[Prater]

I don't mind teleport as long as the ship, goods, and modules are not teleported.

[Arnaud Arpes]

I play only 2 hours or so maybe 3-4 days out of the week. Busy with family and adult duties. I enjoy having the grind spread out into small bits as it is now. I'm not in a rat race to get to First Rates before everyone else. I enjoy doing a couple trade runs, a battle or two, maybe a mission from the Admiralty and then signing off for the night. I much prefer this to 8 hour binges that I'd go through for games when I was young. I've progressed up to Capitaine de Frégate and should be Capitaine de Vaisseau soon.

[Llewellyn Jones RN]

PotBS also a much higher OW sailing speed in that once you were 50 miles off shore time would accelerate to such a degree that a trip to Plymouth from Kingston would take about 20 mins and some still thought that was to slow.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Llewellyn Jones RN

[Prater]

PotBS also a much higher OW sailing speed in that once you were 50 miles off shore time would accelerate to such a degree that a trip to Plymouth from Kingston would take about 20 mins and some still thought that was to slow.

 

I thought PotBS's map was far too small.  The problem is there isn't enough ai and players around, so people think they have to travel the whole world, which they don't.

[Arnaud Arpes]

I thought PotBS's map was far too small.  The problem is there isn't enough ai and players around, so people think they have to travel the whole world, which they don't.

^ Exactly. You do NOT need to traverse the Caribbean and beyond in order to progress in the game. 99% of my playtime has been spent around 5-6 ports near Haiti. When I first started, I grinded it out in my Yacht hanging around Plymouth for a week.

I enjoy the fact that I can take on a long and arduous voyage to the Carolinas or the Texas Coast, or the Yucatan if I want. I know that the time it will take will be long. That's part of the joy in it for me. I don't want to see a million ships passing me every minute I'm sailing. I want to feel lost at sea sometimes and spot the occasional white sail on the horizon. This, like any other game, should NOT be dumbed down to cater for the CoD players who's attention spans can't get them to hash out a voyage from Plymouth to Port Royal.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Arnaud Arpes

[Captiva]

The ability to teleport to outposts without your ship is a great compromise that I believe, for many reasons, will only help the game in the long run. 

 

The only exception to this should be the current ability to teleport with your ship back to your nation capitol.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Captiva

[Booyaah]

There should still be a CD on tp'ing just your captain so it can't be done all willy nilly.  Like up the cast time from 2 to 5 or 10 minutes (however allow it to be done from inside port).  Then slap a 7 hour cd or whatever on it.

[Arnaud Arpes]

The ability to teleport to outposts without your ship is a great compromise that I believe, for many reasons, will only help the game in the long run. 

 

The only exception to this should be the current ability to teleport with your ship back to your nation capitol.

Yeah, I really like this idea actually. It will give the impression that there is more activity in the world than there really would be. Instead of a player based in Plymouth staying in and around the area, they might have an outpost in Aransas and Carricou. So that essentially allows for a multiplication of the activity in OW overall, and in these specific areas.

[maturin]

Whether you want PvP or PvE, all you have to do is take day-sails out of Vieques.

 

Trying to do econ in an environment of port battles, on the other hand, is probably gonna require a LOT of voyaging.

[JimDandy]

Teleport between outposts (without ship), Yes!

This would offer many benifits to the game, without adding a downside (that I can think of right now). 

[admin]

Been looking forward to this game for some time, given the lack of decent age of sail games. Sadly the time requirements will simply to much. With maybe 2 hours a day to play I don't see how it's possible to make progress.

Long travel times, battles that last over an hour I just don't see how this fits into the schedule of an average working person raising a family. I get that it makes me a filthy casual who only deserves to play Tetris at best in the eyes of the community, but that's the way it is. Bouncing back between 2 ports or taking a week to get somewhere is simply not worth it.

 

 

No-one will send you to Tetris. We are searching for the right balance.

 

1) Quest/Orders system now helps those who don't have time to search for enemies. Admiralty finds enemies for you

2) Events are still there and you can always ask players to join the small/large battles and it will be easier once online

3) NPC hauling will be implemented for crafters - they will transport goods for you.

[Ned Loe]

No-one will send you to Tetris. We are searching for the right balance.

 

1) Quest/Orders system now helps those who don't have time to search for enemies. Admiralty finds enemies for you

2) Events are still there and you can always ask players to join the small/large battles and it will be easier once online

3) NPC hauling will be implemented for crafters - they will transport goods for you.

Is it possible to add 'looking for a group' feature. Player would simply enable group search and wait for an invite. (pvp, exploration, etc..). This is good when new players need help to start.

[BobW-Bristol-RI-US]

I am beginning to feel the same way as the OP. Been trying to get past the rowboat levels for weeks and weeks. Any/all issues or suggestions that I might have... I have self-crushed before posting them before (out of reluctance to see middle school 'just leave then' replies like I do in the ingame help chat).

 

But it goes something like this for me... this game is ridiculously difficult for the beginner or casual lower level player. Specific evidence?

 

 - AI BOTS almost never miss - their otherworldly accuracy in the rocking popgun world of low level boats means that after weeks of attempts I can never kill an AI at my same level. I ALWAYS end up retiring because I damage up faster than the AI bot vessel. Fun? No. Frustration? Yes

 

 - Initial battle positioning is way too crucial... after looking for 20-30 minutes for a vessel at or below your same level without suicide level escorts, you find that if you don't pre-position yourself exactly right, the AI BOT simply sails away. Fun? No. Frustrating? Yes.

 

 - Lower Level Gunnery - Heavily rocking and pitching platform against AI BOTs that what? Never miss. So even against a lower level boat, no kill, damage up faster than AI BOT, then retire with no kill. Fun? No. Frustrating? Yes.

 

 - Frequency of lower level unarmed or unescorted vessels? Poor. 20-30 minutes between sightings, missed battle opportunities, damaged up withdrawals, 1-2 hours of no success, repeated for days, then weeks on end. Fun? No. Frustrating? Yes.

 

Bottom line - (My casual 1-2 hr, 3-4 times per week player opinion) If you don't find a way to nerf the beginner / lower level experience to make it a little more fun with more beginner success (let it ramp up later), you run a very high risk of commercial failure.

 

Know that even a frustrated casual game player tester like me really LOVES this game. I want to see it succeed. But it will not be long term supportable through multiple OS upgrades without continually attracting and keeping new players.

 

 Right now - after about a years worth of testing and time devotion, I'm growing weary of the difficulty  - cutter kills (1), undercrewed Mercury kills (0), crewed Pickle kills (0) of many, many engagements. I tried multiple areas with no joy, then relocated to shallow water areas on other experienced player advice that shallows would have more smaller ships. Not true.

 

But I fear that this post will simply fall on deaf ears with 'improve your gunnery' comments and the like. Whereas I think that without having to spend inordinate numbers of hours and playing with groups or teams, this will never (in it's present state) be suitable for casual play.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[GrapeShot]

BobW-Bristol-RI-US,

 

I agree that lower level ships should be something a new player can progress through quicker. Perhaps entry level missions with more dimwitted AI and calmer seas in the battle instance that act as a tutorial of sorts. Then players can get in to brigs and the like quicker (to face the manual sail problem when they do). If it is done as missions then the random OW ships can still be a bit of a challenge to farm.

[Balsafer]

Like most people when fighting the AI I did not know how to deal with them, but I eventually learned what works and what did not and i can tell you shooting out the sails helps tremendously even if you only take it down to 65-75%.  Or equip longs and fire from long range it works, or last but not least carronades... you will derp a pickle, yacht or lynx in one shot almost.

[admin]

 

 - Initial battle positioning is way too crucial... after looking for 20-30 minutes for a vessel at or below your same level without suicide level escorts, you find that if you don't pre-position yourself exactly right, the AI BOT simply sails away. Fun? No. Frustrating? Yes.

 

 

Average player lands most broadsides into you. Why bots should not be able to do it? They actually miss a lot more than players. But you have to remember those Bot captains have their own stories. They sail from their home cities or free towns to make their living, feeding their families or trying to become someone like you. They learnt how to fight well over the years of being battered by other captains and they learnt to run because their life depends on saving that cargo. 

 

Where do I start to explain this.. 

Our philosophy is to not chase what’s popular, but rather make games we want to play.

 

Games have a potential to be something that nothing else can. They can let you experience something that you never can do again in real life. Naval Action can let you sail a ship that has been long gone, visit towns that are no more, conquer the world and be a hero, and admiral or a common captain who just lives his simple life in the Gulf. 

 

Regarding the difficulty

 

Naval action will be too difficult for some people, because the game does not try to dumb down the experience for the benefit of the so-called mass-market appeal. Too many games try to cater to a casual crowd by making NPCs bend over for casual... raking.

 

Naval action is a game that does not treat a player like an idiot. The game knows that you are capable of incredible feats and it knows you are an intelligent being. Naval Action is difficult not for the sake of difficulty. Its difficulty comes from the design philosophy. Overcoming the challenge brings immense satisfaction. You will struggle and be victorious at sea or you can give up and retire to the quiet life on land.

 

We also are not afraid putting the things into the game that players will miss or will not notice. We will not compromise on the design just so every player sees or knows everything from the start. The learning process can make player experience infinitely more valuable and pure.

 

Regarding the empty seas

 

Naval Action is a pure age of sail combat experience with in an open world sandbox. The seas will invoke danger, loneliness and solitude. They are vast and empty and full of danger. The environments sounds are only nature, your ship, and your crew: nothing artificial to misrepresent the mood of the world.

 

“Nothing looks better than land from sea” is an old age of sail saying.  In the open world design we wanted to convey the feeling of loneliness and vast distance. We wanted the player to experience what a real captain would feel in the age of sail. The search, the chase, the combat would feel much closer than in all other games made before. You will welcome the sight of land on your journey and you will worry when you see the sail on the horizon but still will be happy because this player is someone like you.

 

The game is not hard. But it is hard to get into. You have to learn to position yourself properly, shoot at the right time, tack and use the sails: you have to learn to play. Some players will even argue that this inaccessibility makes few first days of struggle and torment very rewarding when you finally learn how to play and start crafting your own stories, but maybe they just forgot how hard it was in a Lynx.

[BobW-Bristol-RI-US]

All points well taken (and thanks for not raking me for my post.) I'll just simply and respectfully agree to disagree. I do love the game, and hope you're correct, that every one of my points stated above are simply and purely gameplay skills issues (notwithstanding almost a year of casual gameplay.) 

 

See you at sea.

 

Regards and thanks for the thoughtful replies.