Patch 27 - Trading feedback

[Angus MacDuff]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

question to the trading community.. 

• San juan yesterday tax is almost 800k reals which is almost  20 mln in old money. 
• Maracaibo tax of 360k was generated just by one trader (which means sold goods for 3.6 mln reals)

If players convey in this topic that trading is unprofitable - how is it possible (most tax is trading related) that cities like maracaibo and san juan generate so much tax from trading?

 

edit… could be that these are the goods from bottles or NPC trader hunting which can spawn rare riches?

I wouldn't say its unprofitable.  You have to find it though.  I made 600K Reals last night in just over an hour (2 TBrigs with an escort).  The issue for me is finding that profitable trade route and then hoping it will stay that way.  The biggest complaint that I see coming for traders is that their trade good drops are not consistent.  For me, that money that I made should let me hunt for a week without trading

[Tom Farseer]

22 minutes ago, admin said:

question to the trading community.. 

• San juan yesterday tax is almost 800k reals which is almost  20 mln in old money. 
• Maracaibo tax of 360k was generated just by one trader (which means sold goods for 3.6 mln reals)

If players convey in this topic that trading is unprofitable - how is it possible (most tax is trading related) that cities like maracaibo and san juan generate so much tax from trading?

 

edit… could be that these are the goods from bottles or NPC trader hunting which can spawn rare riches?

With a selling price of 8600 Reals selling 4 full Indiamen (160 units) of Historical Artifacts (consumed by Maracaibo) a single player would generate about 130k tax per trading run. Assuming he trader bought the stuff for market price in a port that drops the stuff, he would makejust under 800k reals in net profit. So I would under no circumstances say that trading is not profitable. Make two or three runs of that and you easily reach the 360k tax. I'm not sure however that the port can consume the stuff fast enough. Only way I see to cirmcumvent that fact is by having a warehouse in port and stocking all the goods there to sell in one go.

Ofc selling one Art of Shiphandlig book for a few million will easily generate the same tax....

Edited November 15, 2018 by Tom Farseer

[Anolytic]

15 minutes ago, admin said:

Maracaibo tax of 360k was generated just by one trader (which means sold goods for 3.6 mln reals)

Was he actually transporting those goods yesterday, or might he have been selling goods stored in his outpost there over time?

That being said, trading is very profitable now. But also very very risky. People have not yet adapted to the fact that 4 indiaman can now carry immeasurable  riches, but at at a risk that might ruin you instantly if you are caught by an enemy. You can now make great profits using Trader brigs and LGVs and at more reasonable risks.

People also haven't yet understood how trading profits have changed. The fact that a trade route now yields 200% return where before it would yield 300% return does not mean that profits were nerfed. Relatively speaking profits were buffed. But risks and required investments were also greatly buffed. To me it makes sense, but then I still trade with maximum risks.

[Sven Silberbart]

37 minutes ago, admin said:

question to the trading community.. 

• San juan yesterday tax is almost 800k reals which is almost  20 mln in old money. 
• Maracaibo tax of 360k was generated just by one trader (which means sold goods for 3.6 mln reals)

If players convey in this topic that trading is unprofitable - how is it possible (most tax is trading related) that cities like maracaibo and san juan generate so much tax from trading?

 

edit… could be that these are the goods from bottles or NPC trader hunting which can spawn rare riches?

 

We have the ports "St. Johns" and "Codrington". Before patch "St. Johns" was generating more money than "Codrington". Yesterday we saw very few income in "St. Johns" and very high (about 350k) in "Codrington" and we really dont have a clue what happens or how the new trading affect this ports.

The new system is very confusing

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, admin said:

question to the trading community.. 

• San juan yesterday tax is almost 800k reals which is almost  20 mln in old money. 
• Maracaibo tax of 360k was generated just by one trader (which means sold goods for 3.6 mln reals)

If players convey in this topic that trading is unprofitable - how is it possible (most tax is trading related) that cities like maracaibo and san juan generate so much tax from trading?

 

edit… could be that these are the goods from bottles or NPC trader hunting which can spawn rare riches?

Could this been a result of the Convey that was spoken of in this post?

I know in the past we done this with Marsh Harbour and the shallows but took chars with 3-4 trader brigs loaded them up and took them to Charleston after sale off any goods in Marsh.  It's not unheard of a trader running 3-4 ships, but you can get a clan to run a dozen of so ships to do such easly. Specially with server pop being very low right now you can run such fleets and pretty much do it risk free.  Even if one or two guys get caught you prob still make more than enough profits.

[SnovaZdorowa]

2 hours ago, admin said:

If players convey in this topic that trading is unprofitable - how is it possible (most tax is trading related) that cities like maracaibo and san juan generate so much tax from trading?

*сейчас* (после предпоследнего патча) все выглядит много лучше, по крайней мере в трейдинг туле. товар есть, профит в пересчете на загрузку нормальный.
будем посмотреть, не "застрянет" ли потребление и будет ли чем торговать. 

[Sven Silberbart]

@admin: It would be nice if the port owning clan could have something like a tax report. 

That could have the following Information:

15.11.1615: Danish Captain bought 38 Iron Ore. Tax: 15.000 reals

15.11.1615: Danish Captain sold ship "Trader Brig". Tax: 140 reals

...

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

Why in Victoria the Madagascar Jewels don't appear for buy ? In Key West I didn't saw any Madagascar Jewls since the 27 patch update , in the port description it says what Key West drops them , also in Viscoria .

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, Captan Thomas Fremantle said:

Why in Victoria the Madagascar Jewels don't appear for buy ? In Key West I didn't saw any Madagascar Jewls since the 27 patch update , in the port description it says what Key West drops them , also in Viscoria .

They are there sometimes.  Just someone is getting them before you.  Or else the trader that brings them in is getting captured at sea

[Hammy]

For me there needs to be more ports where you can sell trade goods. Atm we are be pushed into everything capital area, trading mainly goes there, reinforcement zones are there and most people head there for PvP. Apart from the ports that consume historical arts and black ironwood etc there's no other ports that do this.

You mention San Juan and maracaibo making profit, look at what they consume. If there were more ports around that consumed goods at random it would make very interesting trading, trade routes would change due to supply and demand on a daily basis. 

[Palatinose]

2 hours ago, Hammy said:

For me there needs to be more ports where you can sell trade goods. Atm we are be pushed into everything capital area, trading mainly goes there, reinforcement zones are there and most people head there for PvP. Apart from the ports that consume historical arts and black ironwood etc there's no other ports that do this.

You mention San Juan and maracaibo making profit, look at what they consume. If there were more ports around that consumed goods at random it would make very interesting trading, trade routes would change due to supply and demand on a daily basis. 

The question is, why would a random port consume random goods. E.g. the Port Sancti Spiritus on the southern side of cuba consumed Batavian Spices, a dutch trading good. I understand all ports, that produce/drop certain goods as small colonies with no more than 200 people (make it a thousand idk) living there. So why would these ports consume anything? Cities like Maracaibo or San Juan, those which consume the caribbean goods, I understand as medium sized cities (there might be a bit of history in it). Then we have "the hungry four", Puerto de Espana, Cartagena de indias, Santo Domingo and Nassau and the capitals (and for some easy mode boyyz the second ones *sorry*). These are bigger towns actually worth the name city. More people = more wealth = more demand. So much for port size.

At the moment and at the current state of game poulation these ports might be enough. Low player base needs hubs for interaction. Assuming player pop rose more of those "hungry" cities should be around imo.

[Draymoor]

5 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

The question is, why would a random port consume random goods. E.g. the Port Sancti Spiritus on the southern side of cuba consumed Batavian Spices, a dutch trading good. I understand all ports, that produce/drop certain goods as small colonies with no more than 200 people (make it a thousand idk) living there. So why would these ports consume anything? Cities like Maracaibo or San Juan, those which consume the caribbean goods, I understand as medium sized cities (there might be a bit of history in it). Then we have "the hungry four", Puerto de Espana, Cartagena de indias, Santo Domingo and Nassau and the capitals (and for some easy mode boyyz the second ones *sorry*). These are bigger towns actually worth the name city. More people = more wealth = more demand. So much for port size.

At the moment and at the current state of game poulation these ports might be enough. Low player base needs hubs for interaction. Assuming player pop rose more of those "hungry" cities should be around imo.

Gameplay over realism. Plus the mentioned ports heavily favor some nations over others. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Draymoor

[Palatinose]

32 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

Gameplay over realism. Plus the mentioned ports heavily favor some nations over others. 

I agree with your point. Question is: how do you want to distrubute something equally on a map which mirrors the Caribbean. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, rediii said:

no. we transported a lot of ressources for shipbuilding (20 indiamans full)

no tradegoods

Bet that was a fun trip, we done it in the past but that was when things where more active.  We even called out the global guys telling them we where bringing unescorted trade ships around.

[Barbancourt]

7 hours ago, Wraith said:

Trading is a matter of gathering and getting out on the sea, rather than passively putting up a contract and waiting.

I've never needed to use contracts for any trading activity. 

[Gregory Rainsborough]

What's the point of whale oil?

[Angus MacDuff]

3 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

What's the point of whale oil?

Lubricates yer whales!

[Tiedemann]

OLD issue. If we sell 1 and one trade item to a port we hit the max stock (15 - 200, I think the limit is varies for different items, as it should) the port is willing to buy and then it will only pay 1 gold per item. If we stock in our own warehouse 1000 +of these we can "dump" them all at the same time, and get the buy price for all. While the port will use days to consume all these items, and then the port is blocked for traders. This mechanic favors the very rich players that can afford ti invest a lot of reals into a large stock of trade goods and then dump/sell it all at once to 1 port for a very large profit. This avoids these traders from sailing around to other consuming ports, they can just focus all their money and time to 1 very profitable trade route.

I would like the port to compare a sell offer from a player and only accept goods up to its limit - the point where it starts to offer 1 real per item. So dumping a huge stock of trade goods at once is no longer possible. This would on the other hand make trading a lot less efficient, so I'm not sure it is something we actually want.. 😕 

[Angus MacDuff]

3 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

OLD issue. If we sell 1 and one trade item to a port we hit the max stock (15 - 200, I think the limit is varies for different items, as it should) the port is willing to buy and then it will only pay 1 gold per item. If we stock in our own warehouse 1000 +of these we can "dump" them all at the same time, and get the buy price for all. While the port will use days to consume all these items, and then the port is blocked for traders. This mechanic favors the very rich players that can afford ti invest a lot of reals into a large stock of trade goods and then dump/sell it all at once to 1 port for a very large profit. This avoids these traders from sailing around to other consuming ports, they can just focus all their money and time to 1 very profitable trade route.

I would like the port to compare a sell offer from a player and only accept goods up to its limit - the point where it starts to offer 1 real per item. So dumping a huge stock of trade goods at once is no longer possible. This would on the other hand make trading a lot less efficient, so I'm not sure it is something we actually want.. 😕 

Your point is very valid but I disagree with the solution.  IMHO, gameplay should override this somewhat realistic feature.  Consuming ports should take it all (like a sailor's doxy), all the time.  This is a problem now with our low numbers.  Imagine if we get a larger population.  I'm okay with the rich players getting richer, and you are right that this is a killer on the poorer players who need desperately to cash in on that one cargo.  It's challenging enough to actually find a cargo that will turn a profit.  To then discover that there are no ports to buy it, is demoralizing. 

[Palatinose]

I like it @Tiedemann. Always thought of this issue as a tolerated exploit. 

Let's say for an example the port consumes 20 units an hour and can store up to 100. Wouldn't this help the majority of players? And what do we (or devs) want in this regard? 

*Bumps @admin*

[Jean Ribault]

The port should buy all of your resources for sale, give you the advertised price, and then export the excess capacity through AI traders to other ports.  So you now have a guaranteed price and the items get flooded back into the market.  Of course you could sell it all and then hit the traders yourself if you were smart, then resell.  I'm sure the traders could be times to prevent it.

[LeBoiteux]

On 11/7/2018 at 2:30 PM, admin said:

ps. keep in mind that trading missions will be added after localization too (crafting, ship delivery, resource delivery, and transport of goods). 

What about 'military correspondance' delivery by 7th warships ?

Allowed ships : only 7th warships (except the basic cutter ?)

Reward :

• high for the one who complete the mission or the one who captures the letters and carry them back to port.
• or high only for the one who captures and small for the one who delivers

Goal : adding value to 7th rates.

Historical : 6-7th Rates were also used to deliver orders, correspondance...

PS : on the PvE server, it would require AI aggressiveness or a smaller reward.

Edited November 21, 2018 by LeBoiteux

[James T Kirk]

Maybe its just the US but after a few weeks there are still almost no good trade goods dropping in ports they are supposed to arrive at.  Though I do like how everything has the same weight making determining profit easier.  I don't like how the new elite woods arrive.  The previous drop system worked well enough with the constant price contract outbidding.  Problem with the new system is the outbidding still happens but product only arrives maybe once a week really jamming prices and wasting even more on post/repost of contracts to stay competitive. 

[SnovaZdorowa]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:10 PM, SnovaZdorowa said:

*сейчас* (после предпоследнего патча) все выглядит много лучше, по крайней мере в трейдинг туле. товар есть, профит в пересчете на загрузку нормальный.
будем посмотреть, не "застрянет" ли потребление и будет ли чем торговать. 

посмотрел. русского фидбека по торговле нету, поэтому отпишу тут.

в общем и целом все хорошо. профитных позиций стало больше, считать проще, торговля требует академического подхода с использованием внешнего na-map и внутреннего trader-tools

нравится:

в парах производства/потребления прибыль есть везде
наличие позиций с низким доходом заставляет быть в теме и все считать
прибыль достойная, на хорошем товаре перекрывает во много раз фарм серебра на флотиках, можно даже сопровождение оплатить
отсутствие внутри игры информации по дропу и потреблению снижает количество конкурентов

не нравится

непредсказуемое поступление товаров, особенно профитных. стоят контракты не на разную чуму, типа paris.furn или text.mach. а на вполне обычные fine leather, black ironwood и т.п., но товар не приезжает очень долго. 

[qw569😳]

3 hours ago, SnovaZdorowa said:

прибыль достойная, на хорошем товаре перекрывает во много раз фарм серебра на флотиках, можно даже сопровождение оплатить

Нафиг оплачивать сопровождение.

Лучше сообща покупайте товары, в этом случае ваш партнер больше мотивирован защищать конвой.

Например, вы договариваетесь, что вы покупаете на 60% трюма вашей торговой флотилии, а ваш партнер остальные 40%.

Edited November 27, 2018 by qw569