Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]

[Powderhorn]

PvE & PvP events are being reworked. I believe there are feedback threads for those already. I know there is one for ship building. Let us please get on the topic of ship building.

[Wesreidau]

And they still mucked that up by keeping the crafting linear instead of doing what almost everyone suggested and make the crafting exponential. Ie: it gets exponentially more difficult to craft the next quality of ship.

 

A lot of people shot right through to end-game content because it wasn't exponential, got bored because it wasn't a challenge, and quit.

 

Meanwhile the part of the game content that isn't accessible (exclusive BP ships) is never going to be accessible unless you play on PvP1 and are either in the big clans or otherwise part of the elite.

 

I understand a casual player may never get to the Victory blueprint. But he can get to the Victory blueprint. That same player may never and can never get to the L'Ocean blueprint. Its, how do you say, a "false feature", like all other event-only blueprints, limited issue ships, and other nonsense.

 

Put all the blueprints into the research system.

 

Adopt decreasing returns for ship quality; 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 3/4, 3/5, at increasing costs. vendor, 0 note, 3, note, 9 note, 18 note.

 

Seriously consider combat trophies as a means of controlling exceptional production. It will drive open-world PvP as well as fair play.

[Magnum]

Since you seem not to understand plain words, let's be even more clear.

 

His problem is the following: on one side, you play casual crafting but dedicated PVP and you can have everything a pro crafter has ... plus Ocean, Agamemnon, Heavy rattle, paint schemes er cetera. On the other side, he plays casual PVP but dedicated crafter and he cannot have a lot of the things you can have being a top PVPer.

 

So, just to let you understand even better: if the game gives a lot of plus to the elite PVP but not a single one to the dedicated crafter, the crafter has a grounded argument to tell it's unbalaced.

 

And finally, in order to be sure that you will focus on the point: what would you tell if permium ships, paint schemes, agamemnon, Ocean and Heavy rattle BP would be given - let's say - ONLY to playes that has crafted at least 20 golden santisima BUT not in any PVP related event?

 

Is it more clear now?

 

As one of the first few LvL 50 crafters and one of the MOST dedicated players (over 8000 hrs played) I can say I never expected SPECIAL perks as a reward. TBH I also never expected to be treated like crapola for voicing my concern that some PvPers were getting special toys.

 

Be careful what you voice your concerns about - you too might lose your status as tester. But now I am free to express my dislike of the "system" of rewarding some players and not all.

 

It sucks and there are plenty of fair ways to make certain BP rare .....

Edited November 7, 2016 by Magnum

[Diceman]

Hello Сaptains!

We will abandon the 5 color grades for upgrades and ships. Fine (blue), Mastercraft (purple), Common (green) are not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them.

As a result of testing the final ship quality and shipbuilding system will look like this.

• Captured - captured (grey) will be assigned to all ships captured (except for ships captured from player fleets)
• Сrafted (yellow) - ships built by players
• Special - events, rewards, tournament vessels, or maybe extremely rare and hard to craft (months of effort required)

Instead of quality (who would try to make a bad ship) players will select things they want they their ship to have sacrificing other elements if they want to improve one of the characteristics

Definitely will be done

• For example if a shipbuilder wants to increase speed it will increase ship cost AND will have to sacrifice the hull quality
• If they want to have additional slots for upgrades they will have to sacrifice space or increase weight
• If you take more crew you might need to reduce hold
• Cannons and ammo and powder supply will affect cargo hold and will reduce ship performance if you overgun it

Under consideration

• If you want to take 200 shots per gun instead of normal supply to battle you might need to sacrifice some space (this will solve cases of light ships unloading 10000 rounds in a battle into a first rate)
• You can determine the number of repair kits you can take for the vessel and affect the weight.
• Unstable designs - add to much sails (to increase speed) your ship might capsize in some cases
• Other experimental ideas like 1 durability ships and other changes

Same treatment will be applied to upgrades.

Once this system is coded in all old ships and some upgrades will become unusable due to database changes and will have to be removed from the game.

discuss

Update to answer some of the questions raised in the topic:

• Regional bonuses will remain and NPC ships as well will have them too
• Regions and map will not change thus your repositioning to new areas will remain valid
• ETA for the changes is somewhere between end december - end january. We will first add land in port battles and some other previously promised things.
• Wood types will remain and will affect ships stats, what will change is how the ship general stats and upgrade slots and other elements are determined during crafting, giving more options to a crafter to build the ship just for him (or for his buyers)
• The current proposal is a proposal and might change based on what is found during the design stage.

I like these changes!!!

The only bad thing is how long it will take for this change to happen... Do this as soon as possible!!!! ...please...

I would also like to say that you need to make it even more difficult to craft the high end first/second rate ships!!! It should be a national effort to build and maintain first rates. The appearance of one or three first rates in a port battle should strike fear in the opposition. It should be rare!

These first rate port battles with first rate fleets and then first rate screening fleets are just ridiculous.

Make ALL AI ships 3rd Rate and higher not captureable. Just gold payout. This will aid in the reduction of the proliferation of ships in this game that should be difficult to obtain, maintain, and sustain!

I also think an asset wipe should accompany the ship wipe to even the board at the start, across the whole map. Not a wipe to zero but definitely a wipe to remove any unfair advantage at the start of the new era.

Redeemable ships at this wipe should be awarded based on rank and no ships above Bellona as redeemables.

[Enraged Ewok]

I agree with a lot of the changes you've suggested to crafting in general, but I do disagree on a few points regarding rare reward/event ships and blueprints.

 

 

Meanwhile the part of the game content that isn't accessible (exclusive BP ships) is never going to be accessible unless you play on PvP1 and are either in the big clans or otherwise part of the elite.

 

 

Firstly, those blueprints will very likely be accessible through events on all servers, post-rework. And given all the event ideas I've seen over the months, I doubt it would be hard to create more events accessible to different playstyles (trading, PVE combat, etc.). Second, nothing is stopping players on PVP2 from putting together their own tournament, as the PVP1 tournament was originally a player creation. It was later sponsored by the devs in the form of rewards. I saw several people trying to put together non-clan teams for this, but this was made impossible due to game limitations not allowing cross-nation teams, not that people not in a clan were barred from participating. I hope that that hurdle can be overcome for the next tournament, but who knows. 

 

Regarding the blueprint rewards, the trick is keeping them rare. The more avenues to obtaining the blueprint, the more people will eventually end up with them unless they are further diluted across the events. Personally, I'd rather just the ships be given away in this case and not have a blueprint at all for them, though I feel like many in this forum would take issue with that as well. I feel that that would allow an increase in possible prizes across events, player tournaments, etc. without opening the floodgate so that every nincompoop at Flag rank has one. 

 

 

I understand a casual player may never get to the Victory blueprint. But he can get to the Victory blueprint. That same player may never and can never get to the L'Ocean blueprint. Its, how do you say, a "false feature", like all other event-only blueprints, limited issue ships, and other nonsense.

 

 

And with the return of events, he can get the blueprint. All he has to do is put in the time to do it, much like my friends grinding maps over and over again in Warframe and screaming bloody murder when they don't get the drop they want. Assuming the reworked event is successful, it could pave the way for more varieties of events to fit different players (traders, PVErs, PVPers), so that even the trader that wants nothing to do with PVP doesn't have be "forced" into a playstyle he does not enjoy to get his reward. I disagree entirely that event rewards in the form of blueprints and limited ships are false features. The content is there, the player just has to put in the time to get it.

 

 

 

 

As one of the first few LvL 50 crafters and one of the MOST dedicated players (over 8000 hrs played) I can say I never expected SPECIAL perks as a reward. TBH I also never expected to be treated like crapola for voicing my concern that some PvPers were getting special toys.

 

Be careful what you voice your concerns about - you too might lose your status as tester. But now I am free to express my dislike of the "system" of rewarding some players and not all.

 

It sucks and there are plenty of fair ways to make certain BP rare .....

 

What you did was claim that Russian clans were being favored by Russian devs, while ignoring everyone else that had also received rewards from the tournament and events. That was entirely out of line.

[Magnum]

 

snip....

 

 

What you did was claim that Russian clans were being favored by Russian devs, while ignoring everyone else that had also received rewards from the tournament and events. That was entirely out of line.

 

No, all i did was express MY concerns based on MY own experience - since my only dealings with the PvP'er and their "special toys" was 1. Fighting and losing to the "special" Santi Cecilias of [RUBLI] around Bermuda and 2. Watching the feed of the port battle for Savanna and seeing with my own eyes how OP the "Special" L'Ocean's of [RUS] were.

 

Again: complaining that two Russian clans are getting "special" toys that are unavailable to me is not claiming anything except that the way "special" toys are handed out is unfair - the rest is your own inference and it is wrong.

 

The FACT that my experience involves only Russian Clans is incidental - and YOU are the one(s) making a big deal out of it.

 

After all it would be hard for me to base my observations on YOUR experience - now wouldn't it?

Edited November 7, 2016 by Magnum

[admin]

No, all i did was express MY concerns based on MY own experience - since my only dealings with the PvP'er and their "special toys" was 1. Fighting and losing to the "special" Santi Cecilias of [RUBLI] around Bermuda and 2. Watching the feed of the port battle for Savanna and seeing with my own eyes how OP the "Special" L'Ocean's of [RUS] were.

 

 

 

RUS clan did not reach the quarterfinals thus have not received any rewards from the tournament.

Also regarding something else you mentioned before:  SLRN Team 1 (Manuva, Freddykrueger, Snoopy) have reached the quarterfinals and received that Cecilia as a reward.

[Ned Loe]

RUS clan did not reach the quarterfinals thus have not received any rewards from the tournament.

Also regarding something else you mentioned before:  SLRN Team 1 (Manuva, Freddykrueger, Snoopy) have reached the quarterfinals and received that Cecilia as a reward.

May I ask what is the point of Tornaments atm? All ship Rewards will be wiped anyway. 

[Vecus Rodomonte]

Hi  all in the Community ,

 

it's long time since i follow the discussions here in the forums and i've got about 400+ HRS of gameplay since FEB '16 .

 

Just wanted to intervene on the matters rounding into Gameplay in general  , from late this Summer up to now :

 

- I'm a bit worried about the line this beautiful game has been taking since last patches , since it is becoming way and way too demanding in terms of time needed  for" normal " players

I spend about 10/12 HRS per Week on NA , and i love crafting , and much more , battles. Got to say anyway that crafting in becoming too really too difficult ( almost frustrating sometimes ) because of the lack of Fine Wood .

Since i am a crafter , i love to spend HRS on playing , and get something in return at the end of the day(s) : Exceptional Ships , for instance. But got to say that for lone players or weak clan , this becomes....just impossible now.

It's just too much , and is killing the gameplay .

 

Players spending HRS into the game , love to get something tasty in return . But up to now , this is way too difficult to get something back , sometimes even frustrating....

We must remember that gameplay is the basic of a game. Having fun is the pillars for a successful game..

 

- Everybody knows that PVP battles now are reduced to few battles:  5VS1 / 3VS1/10VS2 , Ganking.... and almost of the PVPers are using Surprises or those kind of ships becasue are just lot superiors instead of 3rd /2nd rates for those king of " way to play ". This is becoming Toxic and toxic every day , and slowly killing this game  from the inside .

Ok that NA what to be as historically accurate as possible , but i just want to say that a Surprise can't stand alone against a 2nd rate... in gameplay is just stern raking , but we should not get this possible. In real life there will be muskets fire ( from High ! ) and we sould consider that 1 single broadside of a Bucentaure would DEVASTATE a ship like a Surprise ( both hull/man/sails...in the same time ! ). So we need urgently to balance this , because 3rd/2nd rates are becoming almost useless ATM , because of the way Gankers and the majority of PVPers are playing.

 

Hope i've been clear enough , since i am not native English Speaker , and hope this post to get noted by some Admin , because i really love NA , and want it to be a bit more oriented to normal players , or just to NON-Powerpalyers , so i have noted teh drastic drop of players in the last days.... People are becoming tired and bored , sadly....

 

Cheers to you all Captains.

 

Fair Winds

Edited November 13, 2016 by Vecus Rodomonte

[Magnum]

RUS clan did not reach the quarterfinals thus have not received any rewards from the tournament.

Also regarding something else you mentioned before:  SLRN Team 1 (Manuva, Freddykrueger, Snoopy) have reached the quarterfinals and received that Cecilia as a reward.

 

So you are saying [RUS] did NOT have OP L'Ocean's at Savanna? That the cannonballs just always bounce off the side of their ships as a natural course of events?

 

Also are you saying that I didn't pay as much for the game as Manuva, Freddykrueger and Snoopy did - since I don't get that Santa Cecilia?

[Wesreidau]

Put all blueprints into the research system so we can alpha test them.

[Yar Matey]

The amount of salt over the L'Ocean blueprint is ridiculous to me.  I do not have access to the L'Ocean, but I have access to the Santisima, which, stat wise appears to be a superior ship to the L'Ocean. 

 

L'Ocean vs. Santisima:

Speed:  10.89 kn vs.  10.97 kn

Turn Rate:  2.08 vs. 2.06

Structure:  12000 vs. 11400

Broadside Weight:  1662 vs 2052

 

Both have the same thickness for their hulls.  I also want to mention that the Santisima gets 2 more 42 pounders on the bottom deck and a whopping 16 more 42 lb cannonades on the weather deck and is faster by 0.08 kn.   

 

What this all means is if a Santisima was to go full on broadside vs broadside against an L'Ocean at very close range, in 3 broadsides the Santi will have done 13896 damage, to the L'Ocean, while the L'Ocean will have done 11502 damage at close range and this is not including the fact that the Santi's 34x42lb carronades reload faster than the long cannons on the bottom decks.  This means that a Santi can easily sink an L'Ocean.  It has 2 more guns on the bottom deck, and way more cannonades on the top deck and is a slightly faster ship.

 

The Santisima appears to be a superior ship over the L'Ocean as far as raw fire power, but 2 equally skilled players using these ships will most likely result in a draw, but the Santisima has a slight advantage over the L'Ocean; so please for the love of god stop complaining about not having access to the L'Ocean.  As long as an equally matched ship is available to me, I don't care, and neither should you.  Just use the Santisima for your 1st rate.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Yar Matey

[Wesreidau]

All I  have is a Bellona someone handed me because it was 3/4. But I don't care that I'll never sail a L'Ocean. I want to know that content is available to me, an individual, if I set out to earn it, and that I don't have to join SLRN and make it to the tournament finals to sail some elite ship.

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

Coming soon:

World of Shipcraft, The Saltiest Legion. 

[Yar Matey]

All I  have is a Bellona someone handed me because it was 3/4. But I don't care that I'll never sail a L'Ocean. I want to know that content is available to me, an individual, if I set out to earn it, and that I don't have to join SLRN and make it to the tournament finals to sail some elite ship.

 

But the L'Ocean is no better than a Santisima and in fact is probably inferior, which I just pointed out.  People just want access to it because its rare and they cant get one.  Go capture one in a port battle or in open world, and then you have one. 

[Snoggy]

I'm just going to say that wiping the ships with no redeemables is a bad, bad idea.

 

You're going to lose a ton of players. Sure people will log in a little to see what's up, buy a few grey ships and then.... well the gap will mean it'll be months till someone has a first rate.... and the game will be released and all ships wiped again.... just no....

 

 

But yes, the game's called 'Naval Action' and not 'Shipbuilding Action', which is what it seems to be all about now.

[Sir Texas Sir]

The amount of salt over the L'Ocean blueprint is ridiculous to me.  I do not have access to the L'Ocean, but I have access to the Santisima, which, stat wise appears to be a superior ship to the L'Ocean. 

 

L'Ocean vs. Santisima:

Speed:  10.89 kn vs.  10.97 kn

Turn Rate:  2.08 vs. 2.06

Structure:  12000 vs. 11400

Broadside Weight:  1662 vs 2052

 

Both have the same thickness for their hulls.  I also want to mention that the Santisima gets 2 more 42 pounders on the bottom deck and a whopping 16 more 42 lb cannonades on the weather deck and is faster by 0.08 kn.   

 

What this all means is if a Santisima was to go full on broadside vs broadside against an L'Ocean at very close range, in 3 broadsides the Santi will have done 13896 damage, to the L'Ocean, while the L'Ocean will have done 11502 damage at close range and this is not including the fact that the Santi's 34x42lb carronades reload faster than the long cannons on the bottom decks.  This means that a Santi can easily sink an L'Ocean.  It has 2 more guns on the bottom deck, and way more cannonades on the top deck and is a slightly faster ship.

 

The Santisima appears to be a superior ship over the L'Ocean as far as raw fire power, but 2 equally skilled players using these ships will most likely result in a draw, but the Santisima has a slight advantage over the L'Ocean; so please for the love of god stop complaining about not having access to the L'Ocean.  As long as an equally matched ship is available to me, I don't care, and neither should you.  Just use the Santisima for your 1st rate.

 

It does have slopped armor but when your that close and using something like double charge it's not going to matter.   To me the Santi is the ALPHA DAMAGE ship if you want to do the most damage at one time.  The Victory is like the all around brawler.  The L'Ocean is more the DPSer that can' keep most guns running even if you dealing with both sides of the ship.  Each have there goods and bads.  Sounds like some one is more complaining that one Nation/Clan got together and built a fleet of ships and used them.  I would love to see a video of this so called OP port battle and there use.  Bet you we can knick and pick other issues why they won and not just of the ship they used.

[victor]

The amount of salt over the L'Ocean blueprint is ridiculous to me.  I do not have access to the L'Ocean, but I have access to the Santisima, which, stat wise appears to be a superior ship to the L'Ocean. 

 

L'Ocean vs. Santisima:

Speed:  10.89 kn vs.  10.97 kn

Turn Rate:  2.08 vs. 2.06

Structure:  12000 vs. 11400

Broadside Weight:  1662 vs 2052

 

Both have the same thickness for their hulls.  I also want to mention that the Santisima gets 2 more 42 pounders on the bottom deck and a whopping 16 more 42 lb cannonades on the weather deck and is faster by 0.08 kn.   

 

What this all means is if a Santisima was to go full on broadside vs broadside against an L'Ocean at very close range, in 3 broadsides the Santi will have done 13896 damage, to the L'Ocean, while the L'Ocean will have done 11502 damage at close range and this is not including the fact that the Santi's 34x42lb carronades reload faster than the long cannons on the bottom decks.  This means that a Santi can easily sink an L'Ocean.  It has 2 more guns on the bottom deck, and way more cannonades on the top deck and is a slightly faster ship.

 

The Santisima appears to be a superior ship over the L'Ocean as far as raw fire power, but 2 equally skilled players using these ships will most likely result in a draw, but the Santisima has a slight advantage over the L'Ocean; so please for the love of god stop complaining about not having access to the L'Ocean.  As long as an equally matched ship is available to me, I don't care, and neither should you.  Just use the Santisima for your 1st rate.

 

1vs1 counts nothing here, since 1st rate power shall be compared in a normal PB environment.

 

And in PB hull integrity is more important than firepower. Then a live oak golden Ocean with strong hull regional bonus, planking and carpenters is way better than a santisima with the same features. Add to the pack the fact that carronades in PB - with the penetration nerf - are not a good option if the engagement is at medium distance and you will learn why even only 10 ocean in 25vs25 1st rate PB battle can make some difference.

 

Put this considerations in a PB system in which - after the patch - 1sr rates port battles are not frequent and draw your conclusions.

Edited November 8, 2016 by victor

[JollyRoger1516]

On 05/11/2016 at 4:06 PM, admin said:

 

but remember! other adventurous captains will try to ruin your plans. 

I must have failed to anticipate that this is meant for the entirety of the game and not jsut the occassional pirate trying to board a good haul...

[JollyRoger1516]

Pretty much summing up what so many others have written since the last patch. I already have a job and doing the one in this game isn't being paid. Sorry guys I am looking for fun not having to grind that out of the last corners of the game.

[Snoopy]

The new crafting proposals sound pretty cool, although it seems a bit like doubling down on an already involved system when most people only want to sail pixel ships and shoot guns for a bit.
Current crafting != fun because of the logistics involved.
Fiddling with ship builds will probably be a lot of fun (capsizing, too lol), but please address the shipping simulator/nightmare of crafting.
It feels like a full time job.

[CrazyBaer]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 7:05 AM, admin said:

discuss

 

 

So you are adding a very complex crafting system for the ships. The level of detail is commendable, this is like crafting ships 3.0...

 

and we're being forced to do it in a UI 0.4

you made mention of perhaps delivering a UI release soon. If not PLEASE just do a bit of work and tweaking to at leave make it a UI 0.6 and be somewhat manageable.

 

automatic stacking on xfer, double click auto transfer, and mouse area selection to select multiple stacks. No more "no room in wharehouse" for breaking up ships when almost all the items being put into the wharehouse have current stack slots which are ignored and treated as new stacks.

 

Danka

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by CrazyBaer

[Jacob Elston]

The thing is, I use grey, green and blue ships which I have captured off NPCs in PvP.

I am not a hardened crafter, only about level 12-ish I believe, I craft what I need to for my clan and that's pretty much it. I don't have enough money or earn enough money to be able to buy gold ships.

If anything ship crafting should be made of the following:

• Wood Type (it's own benefits/disadvantages).
• Regional Bonus.

Then you can customise it further with a series of sliders to set characteristics such as:

• Hull Integrity
• Armour Integrity/thickness
• Speed
• Turning Speed
• Rigging Quality
• And more...

Enhancing some characteristics will automatically decrease another such as more speed = less armour thickness

• 1 or 2 Dura ships is something I support.
• Ammo, powder & repair kits taking up hold space is something I support.
• Amount of cargo affecting speed is something I support.

Capturing NPC ships should give you a ship with randomly generated wood type and characteristics, but no regional bonus.

 

If this system is implemented, then please try your best to compensate all lost ships with a closing matching version based on your system using the ship redeem feature.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I like the idea of unstable designs. I like the idea of customization, having to trade bonus vs malus and creating unique ships.

Sadly i fear that a total wipe of the ships and upgrades without compensation (redeem) will hurt a lot the population on the servers.

I am also against the "special, event, tournament trophies ships" maybe i will be ok whith that when we all have access to a ship of each rank for every main nation, but not until this moment (for exemple when we got a French Téméraire class 3rd rate, British bellona class, a Spanish 3rd, the generic one or a Dutch/Danish/Swede one, then i'm ok with the idea of a rare/trophy/special Russian/Venetian/Dutch/Danish/Swede or another French Tonnant class 3rd rate..) 

About one dura for all ships, i'm ok with that, but not while you can capture npc ones or buy some cheap ones in ports at vile price, that would be too harsh for crafters imo.

[Jacob Elston]

34 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

I like the idea of unstable designs. I like the idea of customization, having to trade bonus vs malus and creating unique ships.

Sadly i fear that a total wipe of the ships and upgrades without compensation (redeem) will hurt a lot the population on the servers.

I am also against the "special, event, tournament trophies ships" maybe i will be ok whith that when we all have access to a ship of each rank for every main nation, but not until this moment (for exemple when we got a French Téméraire class 3rd rate, British bellona class, a Spanish 3rd, the generic one or a Dutch/Danish/Swede one, then i'm ok with the idea of a rare/trophy/special Russian/Venetian/Dutch/Danish/Swede or another French Tonnant class 3rd rate..) 

About one dura for all ships, i'm ok with that, but not while you can capture npc ones or buy some cheap ones in ports at vile price, that would be too harsh for crafters imo.

 

We should still be able to capture ships in missions or on the high seas, but they should not be as good as player crafted.