Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]

[admin]

Remember, one of the promisses of this game before going to Steam was that PVP was never going to enforced on players!

 

All the promises are on the Steam Greenlight page and on the steam store page

If you want the guarantee we did not edit anything - older versions are in the google cache or in the wayback machine (both of our website).

Steam store page and Greenlight page does not mention anything about pve servers or/and pve experience. We make promises very carefully because we always plan to fulfill them. 

Steam page says

but remember! other adventurous captains will try to ruin your plans. 

 

We created PVE server during testing to give players who hate PvP a safe place where they cannot be attacked during testing. I was who proposed it and implemented it because i was one of the few who cared of them (PvE players). There was huge opposition to pve servers in dec 2014 with people blaming me personally for this crappy decision that will ruin the game and split the audience. 

 

We cannot afford to serve two audiences yet properly.. If the whole SLRN upvotes the game on steam and we sell more copies maybe then we will be able to spend more time on PVE. But before that we do what we can afford. We will first finished what we promised: Finalize conquest, finalize crafting, bring land to port battles, and improve UI, and maybe think of pirates and boarding, . These are the main community requests and since 2013 we develop the game with the community. Developed the game with the community, but some members forget about it somehow. 

 

Thus.. regarding promises.

We did once say that we will not force pvp in to pve player throat. But it does not at all relate to tournaments, types of available content and such. There will be content only available through pve and there will be content only available through pvp. Best players will dominate PVE leaderboards if the rewards will be special. In fact first PVE challenge will come by end of the year. I hope to see you there in the top 10.

 

We talked about exclusive prizes for player actions and support even when we first opened the navalaction page. July 2013 check out the old version. (https://web.archive.org/web/20130624074658/http://www.navalaction.com/). And will continue to reward active community members who go out of their way to make this forums and the game a better place. 

[Jeb Fuller]

I'm fine with a ship wipe, though I'll be sad about losing my favorite ones. I understand that his is alpha and thus, we are subject to wipes at any point before release. I also assume that everything will be wiped just prior to release just like any other alpha or beta I've been participated in. The true reward for me is leaning the game mechanics and watching the game grow before launch. And all I can say is this game has a lot of potential and that the developers and programmers have done I fine job to date.

[admin]

Why I think people are upset about devs in general here.

 

Players often draw a beautiful castle in their based on trailers, expectations and some pieces of information developers provide. That's is why most developers are vague because it helps them to pull more money out of you. We are not like that.. We dont care about the money http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-warand dont care what others will think about us. We care only about the users and the truth.. 

 

Some players find this contrast strange compared to nice talking smooth devs who only care about pushing extra dollars out of you. And that's why the majority of the negativity is actually focused on us. Maybe players only want sweet lies. But we will manage expectations because it helps to avoid disappointments in the future. 

[Magnum]

Magnum.

Tommy is right.. this is ridiculous.

 

First

Event ships were invented by EVE in 2003

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Special_Edition_Ships

Those ships could be only received in tournaments and they are doing it every year since then.

The 2016 tournament recently ended and given out special ships not available to grinders https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/atxiv-prizes-and-draw-results/

 

Second

Before and even in the beginning of summer 2015 you accused us on favoring swedish (when i sailed for sweden) then month later danes, then pirates, then americans, dutch, then spanish, then french, then pirates, now rubli and other tournament winners.

 

I don't understand the hints.. do you want us only to favor British? The joke is getting old. Maybe its time for you to accept that we favor everyone in this game, including you. 

Or just say it as it is.. you don't like tournament winners and don't want us to give tournament prizes to anyone

(including small battle challenge winners - we chipped in to the pool of that player organized event).

 

PS. and its not like they are not usable by everyone. You can just buy them. or board them from people who have them. They are not Bind on Equip. I know people are selling them and we see transactions in logs.

 

Totally wrong answer

 

If you persist in building in ways to advantage some players who due to circumstances are able to attend "events" and thus disadvantage those who can't make it - you will harm your own game.

 

It is up to you to do that - I can't stop you - I can only advise.

I also can't help it if you want to call some of my past advice "accusing" - I can only be saddened about that, you have succeeded in hurting my feelings as Bonehead Tommy could not.

 

The unwritten rule of a sandbox game is: every paying customer gets the same sand to play in, THEY get to decide how they use it.

[ArmoredKorps]

I could not imagine talking to any of my bosses like that (as I have worked multiple jobs).  Why would you take such a disrespectful tone?  While tone is never conveyed through the internet, we apply tone over top as humans, in order to make more context of things.  Even as I type this, I have an "inner voice" I hear it written in, adding tone.

 

This may be hard for you to hear, but the tone in your post is not a positive one.  In fact, it is decidedly negative.  When you come in with such a confrontational attitude, those who are willing to help become exponentially less willing to help.  If you want answers to questions - honest, well thought out, robust answers, you need to have an appropriate tone.  Otherwise, people will just tune you out.

So first you assume and acuse Magnum to be a xenophopic, and now you imagine that i'm using a bad tone? Do you have a cristal ball?

To the point now, please dont imagine or assume what is my tone, i have interact with other moderators and other players and i'm a pretty easy going guy, i gave the answer as i did because i wanted to hear the answer from people of the staff. I was not tryng to be a jerk or sound rude!

remenber my primary language is no english so i speak in the way i was going to speak in Brazilian Portuguese.

Edited November 5, 2016 by ArmoredKorps

[LeBoiteux]

(snip)

 

@ Admin :

Choosing is eliminating/killing. NA devs has chosen PvP over PvE. That's an defensible choice of development/game design (that I don't like but that needs to be explicit and repeated from time to time). However, thx for the PvE shard.

 

But about AI level of difficulty, you say something like "bots are dummies for practice and relaxing times because community would not want them to be hard". Are you sure ?

- Is it really what PvE-ers would like ? Wouldn't they rather have bots chasing them, operating in group, boarding.... ie acting more like real ships (bots for fun) ?  

- Or is it not rather what those who wish to quickly and easily grind through ranks to Rear Admiral want (bots as grinding/farming tool) ? 

- Or is it a way to save development cost (making another choice) ?

[ArmoredKorps]

Why I think people are upset about devs in general here.

 

Players often draw a beautiful castle in their based on trailers, expectations and some pieces of information developers provide. That's is why most developers are vague because it helps them to pull more money out of you. We are not like that.. We dont care about the money http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-warand dont care what others will think about us. We care only about the users and the truth.. 

 

Some players find this contrast strange compared to nice talking smooth devs who only care about pushing extra dollars out of you. And that's why the majority of the negativity is actually focused on us. Maybe players only want sweet lies. But we will manage expectations because it helps to avoid disappointments in the future.

I can undersatand you, and PLEASE dont get me wrong. I LOVE naval action, and it is because i love this game that i do CARE, i never was against anything that the devs trowed at us, i aways wecome every single decision until you decide to gave ships as prizes. and i will always be against that. So please don't think that my criticism is hate because is quite the oposite!

Edited November 5, 2016 by ArmoredKorps

[Magnum]

I can undersatand you, and PLEASE dont get me wrong. I LOVE naval action, and it is because i love this game that i do CARE, i never was against anything that the des trowed at us, i aways wecome everey single decision until you decide to gave ships as prizes. and i will always be against that. So please don't think that my criticism is hate beacause is quite the oposite!

 

Me Too!

[ArmoredKorps]

ArmoredKorps, It is stated on the thread opening topic. I simply pointed out that the Development teams is extremely receptive to community projects.

Sorry Hethwill i was not tryng to sound rude with you, and tbh i was quite pissed in that moment!

[Magnum]

I could not imagine talking to any of my bosses like that (as I have worked multiple jobs).  Why would you take such a disrespectful tone?  While tone is never conveyed through the internet, we apply tone over top as humans, in order to make more context of things.  Even as I type this, I have an "inner voice" I hear it written in, adding tone.

 

This may be hard for you to hear, but the tone in your post is not a positive one.  In fact, it is decidedly negative.  When you come in with such a confrontational attitude, those who are willing to help become exponentially less willing to help.  If you want answers to questions - honest, well thought out, robust answers, you need to have an appropriate tone.  Otherwise, people will just tune you out.

 

Why would you consider yourself as his boss?

[Magnum]

Just noticed - I am apparently kicked out of "testers" group for voicing my opinion.

 

= watch out boys - they just want robots here - no independent opinion.

 

SAD

[Powderhorn]

Why would you consider yourself as his boss?

 

I don't.  It's a quick metric I use for, "Am I being professional?"

[Balsafer]

There will be other events to attain ships and blueprints.  There will be PVP and PVE events, PVE events are now at the moment being reworked why on earth people are getting upset over this is just simply insane... It is just pixels

 

Magnum SLRN and a few other nations GOT BP's for ships it is not putting anyone at a disadvantage when as I see after reading this just about everyone can build said ships, only one nation has a regional bonus that gives stronger hulls maybe perhaps instead of complaining about bp prizes for tournaments suggest reworking some of the regional bonus's.  I say this because I'm sorry to say BP prizes for wining tournaments is most likely going to stay because the game needs  tournaments, people like compete and win prizes.  

 

Time to get back on topic this is about the new ship construction method not events and tournaments.

[ArmoredKorps]

Time to get back on topic this is about the new ship construction method not events and tournaments.

Please go back to page 1 and look at:

Hello Сaptains!

 

We will abandon the 5 color grades for upgrades and ships. Fine (blue), Mastercraft (purple), Common (green) are not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them. 

 

As a result of testing the final ship quality and shipbuilding system will look like this.

• Special - events, rewards, tournament vessels, or maybe extremely rare and hard to craft (months of effort required)

Instead of quality (who would try to make a bad ship) players will select things they want they their ship to have sacrificing other elements if they want to improve one of the characteristics

So talking about that is not off-topic! And Elite dangerous also have special tournaments, especial events even a ladder and give prizes for all that, BUT what they dont give are ships! There is NO excuses or explanation for giving people exclusive Ships in events and tournaments!

[Wesreidau]

What you just posted was never said - we said there will be new types of color grading.

 

We never provided lists or anything that might lead you to the conclusion that all ships will be separated into the 3 groups. 

Some people say Ocean is exclusive. Indeed  but it can be crafted and bought from others + you also could get it through the events or a tournament. 

We never said those levels of quality are mutually exclusive

 

So I don't know what veteran player magnum is upset about. 

 

 

 

Hello Сaptains!

 

We will abandon the 5 color grades for upgrades and ships. Fine (blue), Mastercraft (purple), Common (green) are not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them. 

 

As a result of testing the final ship quality and shipbuilding system will look like this. 

• Captured - captured (grey) will be assigned to all ships captured (except for ships captured from player fleets) 
• Сrafted (yellow) - ships built by players
• Special - events, rewards, tournament vessels, or maybe extremely rare and hard to craft (months of effort required)

Instead of quality (who would try to make a bad ship) players will select things they want they their ship to have sacrificing other elements if they want to improve one of the characteristics

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Wesreidau

[Balsafer]

Ships are not exclusive because from what i can tell everyone can build them now, just about every nation has a BP or has a ally building for them.

[ArmoredKorps]

Ships are not exclusive because from what i can tell everyone can build them now, just about every nation has a BP or has a ally building for them.

Every nation having a BP is not the same as Every individual having... Please don't get confused!

[Siegfried]

Maybe you can to try build your L'Oceans in your very near to capital region with British reload bonus (-10% recharge time) and to try counter that strong hull... or maybe to try conquest one of that regions for yor faction.

 

Brits have the only cedar island (with speed regional bonus included) and nobody is whinning in the forums. BTW, that region is the most difficult to conquest.

 

Brits faction and allieds have the Ocean and rattle heavy and agamenon BPs since months ago and I didn't see you protest about this balancing problem.

 

I like to try new ships, but I am not willing or I can't to partake in that events, I have not any of that BPs and I am not whining all day in the forums.

[Wesreidau]

The fact is we've got blueprints only available to people in the right clan or with the right friend of a friend, because they were given out as tournament rewards and then never released into the general crafting system, even after months. This is counterproductive since we presumably need to test these ships in combat during an alpha, and counterproductive because it makes things elitist. Win tournaments and join clans or you can never have parts of the game you paid for.

 

If I set out to do it, I could build my own exceptional Victory on a PvE server as a one-man faction. No PVP, no PVE, no social connections, just time required. I cannot build a Santa Cecilia, ever, unless the devs decide to release the blueprint in another special event, which I would have to win.

 

I understand tournaments rewarding things to people, but they need to be rare things, never exclusive things, unless its "Flag of the November PvP Tournament Winner" trophies.

Maybe you can to try build your L'Oceans in your very near to capital region with British reload bonus (-10% recharge time) and to try counter that strong hull... or maybe to try conquest one of that regions for yor faction.

 

I can't build a L'Ocean, I can never get the blueprint.

 

Brits have the only cedar island (with speed regional bonus included) and nobody is whinning in the forums. BTW, that region is the most difficult to conquest.

 

You can capture Bermuda.

 

Brits faction and allieds have the Ocean and rattle heavy and agamenon BPs since months ago and I didn't see you protest about this balancing problem.

 

It is a problem.

 

I like to try new ships, but I am not willing or I can't to partake in that events, I have not any of that BPs and I am not whining all day in the forums.

 

New ships should not be tied to events indefinitely. 

[Balsafer]

Every nation having a BP is not the same as Every individual having... Please don't get confused!

 

I'm not confused all that matters is if a Nation has the ability to build said ships for pb's British has the ability so does everyone else.  So this boils down to the simple fact you can't build the ship also.  I do recall the ships are meant to be rare right? They are not very rare if everyone one can build them

[Wesreidau]

I'm not confused all that matters is if a Nation has the ability to build said ships for pb's British has the ability so does everyone else.  So this boils down to the simple fact you can't build the ship also.  I do recall the ships are meant to be rare right?

 

No.

 

All that matters is that everyone who plays the game can access the content they paid $40 for. Not that the ship is handed to them, not that the blueprint is given for free, but that they have some way to craft every craftable ship given the determination to do so.

 

 If it were only the "Special Tournament Edition" with a little gold paint or a slightly better stat, fine. But we've got whole ships dependent on you being in the top 1% of the server's PvP population.

[Balsafer]

So then might as well not bother making the ship rare then or make 1st rates rare... The whole means of the tournament is add some ships but make them hard to get or rare but nope guess not.   Maybe the devs should go the later route and make the ships take months to build....

[Siegfried]

The fact is we've got blueprints only available to people in the right clan or with the right friend of a friend, because they were given out as tournament rewards and then never released into the general crafting system, even after months. This is counterproductive since we presumably need to test these ships in combat during an alpha, and counterproductive because it makes things elitist. Win tournaments and join clans or you can never have parts of the game you paid for.

 

If I set out to do it, I could build my own exceptional Victory on a PvE server as a one-man faction. No PVP, no PVE, no social connections, just time required. I cannot build a Santa Cecilia, ever, unless the devs decide to release the blueprint in another special event, which I would have to win.

 

I understand tournaments rewarding things to people, but they need to be rare things, never exclusive things, unless its "Flag of the November PvP Tournament Winner" trophies.

 

Well I have the same problem and I am not whinning in the forums.

 

Maybe you have not a friend who is willing to build a Ocean for you (me neither) but you can build Santisima and Victory with reload bonus or hull strenght instead. When Ocean was only in brit faction, the excuse was the ocean is not better than other 1st rates, Why now it is?

 

If I can conquest bermuda, you can conquest strong hull regions, what's the problem then?

 

The lack of availability of special BPs is a problem since months ago, but there were more special BPs in the brit faction and allies: Why all this whinning is brought just now?

 

Someone have the BP of Santa Cecilia? or it was only the ship and no BP gifted in the tournament? As I know it was only ships, not BPs.

 

AND more important, this is a testing phase, not indefinitely. Maybe BPs will come with the new crafting system in January. I wish it would be now, but I can't understand the problems of develop this game and I need to be patient and wait a bit for when devs can launch it.

 

This is a thread for help devs, not for fight for your faction advantages.

[Corona Lisa]

My FEEDBACK:

 

Well, between

 

- the Russian Pirates [RUBLI] getting "special" ships (Santa Cecilia).

- the Russian Danes [RUS] getting "Special" ships (Strong Hull L'Ocean).

- and the removal of any usefulness of screening fleets because the dev's allowing "Log in to port battle" mechanics by Russian [RUS] attackers.

 

You might as well wipe me RIGHT NOW - I am done testing the "Russians [RUBLI] [RUS] Win" game.

 

Good day.

 

 

After the last special event happend and neither French, Denmark or Sweden had a l'Ocean blueprint we tried to buy one from you for over 200 Million, collected from multiple clans. Guess what your answer was: No, we dont want to give one to the enemy!

 

And now after you lost a port battle with even numbers you start crying ...

 

Seems like having a disadvantage is fine as long as its not in your country 

Edited November 5, 2016 by JonSnowLetsGo

[Hagen v Martius]

Every nation having a BP is not the same as Every individual having... Please don't get confused!

Why should every single person have automatic access to something that was earned with a lot of effort by a group of very dedicated and skilled players?

 

I don't get that mindset. Like, at all.

What is so bad about people getting rewards for doing something special?

Edited November 5, 2016 by Hagen v Martius