Hotfix 9.95 - Social perk and other important changes

[el_mariachi]

Regional Capitals produce National goods, or capping AI traders that drop some from times to times... Let's empty all Brits shops from Indian tea quickly , and same for the Iberian meat that is produced only in 4 cities if i make no errors.

 

 

Not really happy about Social perk, this was a good thing added to prevent eternal camping and easy targets picking in front of the Captials made by groups seeking only for easy pvp mode engaging ships only when outnumbering them and sure of a win, or like seen recently in the Spanish or Jamaican waters a very nice help to defend attacked cities in heavy populated waters ... Timer had to be decreased surely but now you simply remove it ...  yeah ...

 

Disappointing to see that you listened those who come attack in heavy populated waters seeking for easy pvp and targets and cry about it when they got the opposition they should encounter when coming in such heavy populated waters ... Let's bring back ganking 3mn away from a capital for all players that know nothing more than "fighting" at 5vs1 and then hiding for 2 hours in the lame end screen result ... all this while others cannot help if they are barely 2mn away from there and all this in front of a capital ... sick game stuff ...

Kanay, i thought you were not  against a good pvp fight....why're u so concerned about this Social perk so much, folks? It has already been told that the new system with the BR will prevent any fights like 20vs1 because soon if you'll have a battle with a not equal BR on both sides, the team who has the lowest BR will have an open entry for reinforcements. So you folks, our dear British, will be well protected against the filthy gankers....but also you won't have an opportunity to summon the mighty Zerg and fulfill the battlefield with 25 ships against our 10

So be happy - no more gang-bang but only PvP.

Edited September 1, 2016 by el_mariachi

[lokii]

This change comes too early hence Swedes/Dutch/Danes don't have a 1st rate... But anyway it is not my problem, I am a British player, just saying it is kind not fair, too early for that. Also, please increase the loot from AI Traders ships! When I look on almost empty all LGVs sailing... Tell me how these AI traders are able to survive from trading if they sail with 50 cargo... 

 

+1 this. I think it is a decent idea, but 1000 is too much. It should be introduced when all nations have 1st Rate BPs

[Jerome]

Regional Capitals produce National goods, or capping AI traders that drop some from times to times... Let's empty all Brits shops from Indian tea quickly , and same for the Iberian meat that is produced only in 4 cities if i make no errors.

Not really happy about Social perk, this was a good thing added to prevent eternal camping and easy targets picking in front of the Captials made by groups seeking only for easy pvp mode engaging ships only when outnumbering them and sure of a win, or like seen recently in the Spanish or Jamaican waters a very nice help to defend attacked cities in heavy populated waters ... Timer had to be decreased surely but now you simply remove it ... yeah ...

Disappointing to see that you listened those who come attack in heavy populated waters seeking for easy pvp and targets and cry about it when they got the opposition they should encounter when coming in such heavy populated waters ... Let's bring back ganking 3mn away from a capital for all players that know nothing more than "fighting" at 5vs1 and then hiding for 2 hours in the lame end screen result ... all this while others cannot help if they are barely 2mn away from there and all this in front of a capital ... sick game stuff ...

So you want a magic skill to counter those that go to "heavily populated waters" looking for PvP? Where should they go? Sparsely populated waters?

[Kanay]

Kanay, i thought you were not  against a good pvp fight....why're u so concerned about this Social perk so much, folks? It has already been told that the new system with the BR will prevent any fights like 20vs1 because soon if you'll have a battle with a not equal BR on both sides, the team who has the lowest BR will have an open entry for reinforcements. So you folks, our dear British, will be well protected against the filthy gankers....but also you won't have an opportunity to summon the mighty Zerg and fulfill the battlefield with 25 ships against our 10

So be happy - no more gang-bang but only PvP.

It's not pvp when 5-7 guys jump on a single player barely away from a heavy populated city, or so close to the city that the forts defense will have the ships in sights and use them guns against them ... 

 

Meanwhile we have barely 2mn to join and give a hand and it's silly, the game should reflect the difficulty to attack close to dense populated waters, especially around capitals, it should not be simple to attack barely 2mn away from a dense populated city than attacking in the middle of the seas or far from any land or at the borders of your Nation, it should not follow the same ROE rules, while social perk wasn't perfect it added this level of difficulty to reflect how it should be when attacking in such waters, now back to square 0 ...

 

You guys don't run from a fight but let's be honest how many come to jump a guy at 5-7vs1 with capital in sights once they are sure none are close enough to join within the 2 minutes ??? It's even more easy with alt accounts spies and some don't even are ashamed to stream this and we hear the spy reporting all potential targets... 

 

Sadly this is the norm and you probably knows it, point is that is should not be easy to attack close to dense populated waters as elsewhere, and social perk was a nice addon for this even if far from perfect.

 

So you want a magic skill to counter those that go to "heavily populated waters" looking for PvP? Where should they go? Sparsely populated waters?

I don't call jumping at 5-7 vs a single ship pvp ... but yeah read above ... New conquest system will  show heavy pvp zones and i bet capitals will still be full of ez "pvp" mode hordes, because they don't want pvp, they want easy supermarket picking targets only and many won't go to areas where they will meet players coming for heavy pvp, that's simply not what they want as kind of pvp  ...

[akd]

Now we are on our own, all new players. I hope "return back" means also soon, not soonish. You could just reduce the time of social perk to 5-10 minutes to not make it so ridiculous.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, the additional 3-8 min beyond 2 min combined with the perk being "blind" is what makes the perk problematic as it undermines the "fight what you can see" principle. Ships can easily hide out of view or join from port with timers greater than 2 min. Simply reducing the time neither fixes nor balances the perk. It is broken in principle.

And the only positive anyone can put forward in defense of this perk is this nonsense about it being "easy" to hunt solo players around national capitals because of the 2 min timer, and that this somehow justifies completely altering the dynamic of OW PvP everywhere.

[huliotkd]

if you want to reduce numbers of 1st rate, you must reintroduce 1 duration ships patch.

 

actually if i have 1 OP i can fill it with 5 constitution (maybe gray), but they are actually 20 (5 x 4 dur)... and i can buy from port maybe other 5-6 basic connie (20-24 new ones)...

so if i have 8 op i will have 160 connie, with 60-80 new ones in ports...so each connie i craft, gives me 5 connie...with same amount of resources.  too easy building personal fleet of infinite ships...

 

reintroduce 1 dur ships, so 8 op=40 ships only , more resourse consumption, fewer resources for 1st rates...also you can buy only 5-6 new gray ships in ports, so you have to learn how to fight really good in pvp or you will finish your ships before you are able to replace them; losing 1 ships means not only high cost of materials, but also LH you are trying to collect to build 1 1st rate...so delayed 1st rate building....

[DeRuyter]

Judging by the responses (kneejerk reactions in some cases) not many people look at these changes long term. So let's put the 1st rate changes and elimination of the social perk in context of the upcoming major patches:

 

1st Rates and National Goods

 

Pro: Advantage for certain nations, Less 1st rates, more traders on the sea. Promotes ship diversity. More 1st rates in game soon.

Con: Disadvantage to certain nations w/o national ship or easy access to resources. Disadvantage in Regional PB.

 

Okay so with the incoming PB rework patch will it be necessary to have 25 1st rates in a regional PB? in fact what will a regional PB look like after the patch with land and (hopefully) proper forts? The answer to these questions really has a bearing on how much of a disadvantage not having national resource for 1st rates will be. The answer should be that a diverse fleet lead by a few 1st/2nd rates would be the ideal for most PB. So let's see what they have in mind for the upcoming conquest and PB mechanics before judging the 1st changes.

 

Also please don't balance ships just because well balance - stick to historic ship characteristics!

 

Social Perk

 

Pro/Con - Hashed out multiple times all mostly opinions based on how people play, OW time compression, etc.

 

New ROE mechanics are being developed (see threads on 2 circle tag and pull mechanics). In other words I believe the devs are working on a different way to address this issue, which again is different depending on your pov. 

 

Can't wait for September patch and port reset.

[TommyShelby]

Sounds great, the other day i had a conversation with Kierrip from EDR. 
He told me how a 1st rate was a rare sight in PotBS, that it took ALOT of effort to build one and so, when you finally managed to build one and sail in one there was alot of "prestige" about it, just like in real life. 
I hope that is where Naval Action is going, building a 1st rate should be something exciting and it should give the nation/clan/player a sense of pride to have one and sail one. Loosing one should "hurt" alot in my opinion. 

 

I love the idea of ships being nation specific. Obviously other nation should be able to, in some ways, make ships that are specific to other nations (Smuggler flag makes this possible?).

 

I love that Social Perk is gone. When we go out hunting we are always looking for a group slightly bigger than ours so that our battle will be a tough one, a challenge. 

But way too often we find a group either same size or slightly bigger than ours, we attack, and 10-20 minutes later the 4v4/4v5 turns into a 4v15/4v25... 
If people want to help their friends then SAIL WITH YOUR FRIENDS. It's not that hard! Yes, sometimes your little group will get ganked but that is life, perhaps you should reconsider what ships you sail when alone/in small group.

 

 

As for differences between the current 1st rates (L'Ocean, Santissima, Victory) i always thought L'Ocean would be more maneuvrable and faster than Santissima but more squishy and less firepower. 
Currently L'Ocean is more Tanky than Santissima, has almost same firepower. Is just as slow as Santissima and is just as bad at maneuvring as Santissima. 
- After talking to some people who know alot more about wooden ships than me, i have been told that L'Ocean should NOT be faster than Santissima, however it should turn much much better than Santi. 

The 36 Pounders are currently useless btw. 1 Second faster reload but 1 damage lower than 42 pounders. Pretty much same penetration.

So i'm not sure why they are ingame other than to please the history nerds? (No Offense meant!) 

[Pagan Pete]

so basicly you took away 1st rates from the Danish Swedish and US nation? once those we have are gone, we wont have time for anything else than to sail with smuggler flags......... trying to get to a port that allready are out of stock in said items

 

Now you know why so many pyrates abandoned the game… Its a phenomenon I call "Heavy Handed Guess Work".

"HHGW is a condition where a game developer takes a stab at a change, without considering the consequences." (Pagan Pete et all. Journal of Piratical Sciences and Witchraft, Sept 2016.)

Still, Im glad Social is disabled for a re-work. It was an attempt to stop the rampant Ganking (As are AI fleets) But the trouble is GL is trying to understand a problem without knowing the true cause. "You can't solve Ganking with a gimik. One must eliminate the underlying motivation for Ganking. Only then can you be successful." (Pagan Pete et all. Journal of Piratical Sciences and Witchraft, Sept 2016.) 

Admittedly, GL managed to accidentally eliminate Historical Brand(™) piracy… Now, if we can implement the changes that Dr. Pete recommended, would could bring Historica Brand(™) Pyracy back into the game. Solving the Gankining issue, however, is a much more of a challenge… Except that Dr. Pete already made a recommendation for that.

"If we divide the spoils of a prize up between the ships' crews involved, the reward for grouping up to steal lone ships drops dramatically. Especially if you have to pay out a portion to the crews as well. The bigger the crews involved, the less reward for the captains!" (Pagan Pete & Little Willy. How Are We Going To Get Out Of This Now? Freebooter Books, 2016.)

Still, this un-patch is a step in the right direction! It gives me hope of a bright NA future!

Keep this up   

Hisorical Brand(™) Pyracy is a wholly owned subsidiary of Captains of the Black Flag, Pagan Pete, his subsidiaries (cabin boy) and shareholders (crew)

[TommyShelby]

Old players you mean arround 300-500 active? Well, not many of them survived... Most got already tired of Battles Closes in front of your face.

Most of the veteran players i know (and i know quite a few) love the 2 minute timer more than anything.  And no, those people do not gank.  

[Pagan Pete]

Most of the veteran players i know (and i know quite a few) love the 2 minute timer more than anything.  And no, those people do not gank.

 

Tis true!

[Cecil Selous]

Time for allies to be real allies not only in fight but also in trade. I like where this is going. If first rates become more rare we will see more 2nd and 3rds in pbs. With the new port battle mechanics we will also don't see this port battle galore mess we have now with 20 pulled flags in 30 minutes. Nations have to fight about certain regions together with their allies and also support each other in trading and maybe even crafting ships. Other nations and pirates (payed privateers?) have to sabotage that. Nations and allies need to be better organized and perhaps assign specific tasks within its playerbase. What's not to like if this will become the game in the future?

[Pagan Pete]

So if you attack a ship in front of a port, you expect to not see any reinforcements from that port? That is pretty dumb.

 

IRL, yes. I took a LONG time to prep a ship for sail, and ye had to wait for wind and tide.  Also… The horizon is 30 miles on a clear day, less so in bad wether. You could have a battle right out side port and not know it!

It happened...

In the civil war, there were a famous battle that took place on the other side of a small hill, only 2 miles away form a large force!  The large force never new the smaller units were in trouble, as the wind blew the sounds of battle away from them.

[akd]

So if you attack a ship in front of a port, you expect to not see any reinforcements from that port? That is pretty dumb.

If they are not in front of port ready to sail, then yes. There was no hiding in ports in the Age of Sail.

However, I fully support national ports having forts in battle instances, and maybe even some Martello towers along coasts between ports.

[z4ys]

So if you attack a ship in front of a port, you expect to not see any reinforcements from that port? That is pretty dumb.

 

To make a moored ship clear for action + leave habour + arrive at action zone take quite while at this point the battle would be already over or the approche of the fleet would be seen so the attacker would withdraw.

 

We cant see what is happening outside +  OW is a much more faster than battle instance + what i mentioned before. That all makes the "social perk" a shit perk.

[PIerrick de Badas]

Social perk wasthe perfect things to stop offensivgank around capitaland noob area.

Any noo get it and any captin get it near their own waters and all captain remove it in otehrs seas. It allow people to be a bit protected into their waters while not protecting in ennemy waters what gived advantage for people into their waters (pve/trade/crat= what was good

Maybe 30 min was too much but it really stop the gank around the capitales, noones could make it into nationals waters

 

About resosurces per ship why not but maybe should you give everyone all the pb. Tje joke was enough lonjg.

 

First you made an event into mexico what is far away from danish french and sweden

Then near Port royal what was easy for brits

Now you make a mecanism that allow to craft ship with specials ressources but noone in french get the ressources needed for the ships and i'm not speaking for sweed, dutch and danish...

More i get ships in my country, more i have first rate.

More i have first rate, more i'm able to capture town wich produces nationales ressources

Making me able to have more ships

More i have first rate more i'm able to capture town etc etc

 

Going in bad way

[Mori]

*** Please try again and give more feedback than "players leaving".  What specificially don't you like about the patch and why? - H. Darby

Edited September 1, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby

[Lannes]

Experimental hot fix deployed today

3) Regional changes implemented for vessels as an experiment that will spread to other high ranked vessels

• Victory - requires british national good to construct
• Santisima - requires spanish national goods to construct
• Ocean - requires french national goods to construct
• When introduced - Christian first rate will require Danish/Swedish national goods to construct
• When introduced - Dutch first rate will require Dutch national resources
• Second rates are under consideration

This is done as an experiment to see if regional changes will create more variety in large scale port battles, making national choices more interesting. 

I agree with national ships being the property of that nation. E.g., the Victory being British only. That should go all the way down the line from 1st Rates to 7th Rates. (It would mean that one of my favourite vessels, the Constitution, would be unavailable to me as a British Royal Navy captain.)

1. This means that every nation needs to have its own national ships of every Rate available for construction or purchase. For example, a Constitution can only be constructed by the USA, but a similar model of 4th Rate ship needs to be available to each nation. It may not be exactly the same, like the Ingermanland is not, but could be an adequate replacement for certain nations. Other ships might be only copy-and-paste and with a changed name. E.g., There was a French 32-gun frigate Hermione (1779), a British 32-gun frigate Hermione (1782) as well, which became the Spanish Santa Cecilia. Here you have 3 possibilities in one ship model.

2. Historically ships were captured and pressed into service by the capturing nation. So, when you've captured the French L' Ocean or Bucentaure, or any other vessel, you can repair and outfit it by a price in gold, as is now the case, and press it into service for your nation.

[admin]

 

More i get ships in my country, more i have first rate.

More i have first rate, more i'm able to capture town wich produces nationales ressources

Making me able to have more ships

More i have first rate more i'm able to capture town etc etc

 

Going in bad way

 

 

we have reconsidered the position. the change was given too early. 

we will hot fix this tomorrow

Only newly ships (like Le Ocean) will require national resources until the regions are deployed and trade routes change. Before that - this change is sort of unfair to 3 nations and unfortunately due to programming issues we cannot add the the required resource to them easily.

 

But prepare..

In the future (after regions are deployed). Exceptional ships will be rare, first rates will be rare and hard to build. Many vessels will require you to conduct economic warfare to be able to build them. 

[TommyShelby]

But prepare..

In the future (after regions are deployed). Exceptional ships will be rare, first rates will be rare and hard to build. Many vessels will require you to conduct economic warfare to be able to build them. 

 

HYPE! Can't wait, sounds epic as ****!  

[qw569😳]

I suggest adding the Tea, Meat and Wine to the PB loot

[admin]

I suggest adding the Tea, Meat and Wine to the PB loot

 

after regions - pb loot will depend on the port you capture. 

[Powderhorn]

I think I'm most interested in Live Oak being limited to the VA/GA Region.

[Chimera]

Might be a good concept to bring 3rd rates back in the mix. Right now i

I don't use them at all.

We just need to make sure that it does not lead to a situation where one nation controls let's say most of the liveoak production and gets stronger and stronger while others don't have the chance to capture it anymore because they get weaker and weaker.

[Pelennor]

But prepare..

In the future (after regions are deployed). Exceptional ships will be rare, first rates will be rare and hard to build. Many vessels will require you to conduct economic warfare to be able to build them. 

 

I think it's a good thing. We will see more diversity in PB (2nd/3rd rates).