Alliances - final design

[Christiaen Stelling]

Hello everyone I have posted this quite some time ago and thought it would fit here regarding the discussion about pirates:

 

 

Hello everyone, this post caught my eye;

 

I was thinking, why not introduce Letters of Marque (probably already suggested but it fits here). They would allow pirates to sail under a different flag:

 

- Give pirates 20- 30 maybe 40 ports and let them choose a starting point.

- Give them the ability to get one Letter of Marque for free and after that they'd have to pay for them.

- With the letter of marque give them the ability to enter that nation's ports and build production buildings there and trade (Ex. Capital).

- Exclude them from crafting 1st and 2nd rates, it is not historically accurate, and will also not be relevant to pirates:

- Make their ports unconquerable thus effectively a passive aggressive nation BUT give them the ability to raid ports which will then result in the buildings that were built there being plundered and a negative production factor (-25% or something) so people will actually defend the ports from Pirates.

 

NOTE:

EXCLUDING THEM FROM CRAFTING THEY CAN STILL BUY THEM OR CAPTURE THEM.

 

- Edward

 

Hello everyone, this post caught my eye;

 

I was thinking, why not introduce Letters of Marque (probably already suggested but it fits here). They would allow pirates to sail under a different flag:

 

- Give pirates 20- 30 maybe 40 ports and let them choose a starting point.

- Give them the ability to get one Letter of Marque for free and after that they'd have to pay for them.

- With the letter of marque give them the ability to enter that nation's ports and build production buildings there and trade (Ex. Capital).

- Exclude them from crafting 1st and 2nd rates, it is not historically accurate, and will also not be relevant to pirates:

- Make their ports unconquerable thus effectively a passive aggressive nation BUT give them the ability to raid ports which will then result in the buildings that were built there being plundered and a negative production factor (-25% or something) so people will actually defend the ports from Pirates.

 

NOTE:

EXCLUDING THEM FROM CRAFTING THEY CAN STILL BUY THEM OR CAPTURE THEM.

 

- Surtur

 

[Kronans]

will never work if all can make alliances ther will not be any nations. and noone can attack anything

[Jerome]

Pirates are a nation. Thus I decree that the devs should force people who want to be pirates to roll as pirate from day 1. If devs refuse to do this I vote we make anybody switching to pirate midway thru their careers to loose all their possessions except their experiences and whatever they can fit on the barge they are currently sailing and start from scratch LIKE THEY HAD TO HISTORICALLY!

Also they should be included in the realm alliances vote. Because I mean cmon... Half of both pvp 1 and 2 are black... Thats not very historical

Absolutely not. I play pirate so I can attack everyone, and I mean EVERYONE. Pirates too.

[Loco Bandito]

If Pirates cant make anything above 4th rates then Nationals should not be able to board even it out.

[Peter Fouche]

I said this before, and will say it again.

 

Do not give this much power to players. Let the AI decide.

Then it could even be historical or not.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Honestly peeps, I wouldn't worry about people with some ridiculous number of accounts swaying a national vote. How many people have THAT many accounts?? Not every other captain shelled out 300 US dollars to buy enough accounts just so he could cause a war. Ha, quit being so dramatic. Even then, if he spent THAT much money on the game, then great, that's money the devs can use to make it better. Who gives a poo?

I don't know I had 5 accounts when I played POTBS.  So lets say I have 5 account s here and since the game is what?  40 bucks a pop would be 200 dollars.  The only reason I haven't gotten a second account for the game is cause it's in ALPHA right now, but I'm pretty sure if I'm still into the game when it goes live I'll prob get me at least one more account.  Though I never play different nations on the same server.  To me I don't think this is fair and is a form of cheating. That is why most games won't allow you to do it.  Hell some won't even allow you to have multi accounts.

[Sir Texas Sir]

If Pirates cant make anything above 4th rates then Nationals should not be able to board even it out.

 

Well when did pirates have SOL in the first place or super frigates?   I think it's silly at this time when you see more Pirates running around with 1st and 2nd rates than most other nations.   This would push more for a reason to run smaller ships and shallow battles when the big boys can't chase you into those waters.   Than if you capture one of the SOL it's a great prize for the nation.  BOARDING was a very Naval thing that did happen for ships that fought for there Nations Navies, not just with pirates raiding merchants.   Now what I would love to see is something like the Pirate Frigate.  Make some ships that are just for the pirates that has more guns than the other ships of it's class or more crew cause they are more short trip raiders than long run ships.  Have the option to remove some guns to have a bigger cargo space or arm a trader up more and loose some of it's cargo space.    This would equal out the fact they can't craft SOL's and only capture them.   I'm really not a big fan of the current NATION mentality of Pirates, but we will have to see what the new changes in the future in store for them.

 

Its a sandbox game, doesnt have to be 100% historical. Its a game of conquest, if a bunch of misfits want to band together then why not. Maybe nations should band together.

 

Agree to many folks want to treat this as either a simulator or a Historical Accurate game, it's not either.   Though it's not some silly COD arena combat type game like World of Warships either and that is the great appeal to it by many that play it.   We are lucky to be here along with it's growth through becoming the final game that it will be when it's fully released as finished product.  

 

Though I do like the concept that if a bunch of misfits/pirates can band together and fight for the same cause or fight against each other or even help out the Nationals (since there is no allies or enemies for pirates).  Though with this it would be nice if they can get Privateer status and maybe work on a way to join that nation after so many points if they like.  This way you might have one Pirate Clan that helps out the US, but another helps the French and get along with the US one.  A third hates the US so they will try to sink the First clan when they see them.  Cause of this the French aligned clan might help the US aligned one or just stay out of the inner fighting of the Pirates.  In other words a bunch of chaotic fun lol

 

I do believe that separate pirate clans should be able to form alliances. That way a lot of the pirate player base would still have the hardships of piracy but also the pleasure of being foreign privateers.

They should be the chaotic mess between the Nations that can help them or harm them in the wars and some times even flip sides at a hates notice.  So you will never really truly trust that pirate at your back side.  Though I'm all for an option to also let that Pirate Privateer have the ability to game full national status if he wants to keep helping that one one nation and join them.  This way Nationals have a way to go back to being a National after becoming a pirate.  Though I would say that you can never join your original nation after going pirate.  This will help curb the Nation Jumpers, but allow you to join another Nation later in game if you want to.  If you burn your bridges with all the nations you can never go back to being so and permanently your a pirate.  Would work best if there is some Reputation system installed in the game though.

[Mrdoomed]

If Pirates cant make anything above 4th rates then Nationals should not be able to board even it out.

Better yet and more historical they need to have limits on the number of shis and sizes ships in the carrebean. This way we are " historical " instead of the sandbox national players dislike.

[Captain Kibble]

 

Agree to many folks want to treat this as either a simulator or a Historical Accurate game, it's not either. 

 

 

Taken from the store page: "Naval Action is an exciting, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat game immersing players into the experience of the most beautiful period of naval history - when sailing ships ruled the seas....."

 

While I understand that this is, ultimately, a game and the "fun" factor needs to be considered - If people want to see a game (that is advertised as "Realistic") have more historically accurate features when it comes to things like factions, then why not? Just because some people think its cool to fly a pirate flag while still acting like any other nation, even when history is as far from that as you can get? Those who play pirate should want to do just that - play pirate. Otherwise, join a nation. Pirate changes are coming and it's going to shake things up. It's just unlucky for pirates that those changes are coming after the diplomacy patch, and we can already see there are going to be growing pains within the Pirate ranks. Most likely, it will start to sift out those who actually want to be pirates from those who really should be part of a nation.

 

The pirates need to be a thorn in the side of a nations economy, and currently they are just not - simply another nation (albeit, a nation disliked more than others). Everyone just needs to calm down until the Pirates get their makeover.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Captain Kibble

[Hethwill]

Historical credibility is a strong point of Naval Action. No mistakes.

[admin]

Historical credibility is a strong point of Naval Action. No mistakes.

 

so we can add praying? Praying was very historical and even nelson prayed to the gods before the battle

[Hethwill]

so we can add praying? Praying was very historical and even nelson prayed to the gods before the battle

 

I already pray to Pirate Jesus everytime I sail out of port, so I guess a new Perk of Religious can be added. +5% chance of a miracle Win button.

[akd]

Praying is currently prohibited?

[admin]

Praying is currently prohibited?

 

but there is no button

[Hethwill]

That's the entire point I guess... ( admin is asking us to have faith !!! )

[Thonys]

That's the entire point I guess... ( admin is asking us to have faith !!! )

 

Well at least..... he is a true believer

 

but are you and  I a true believer that s the question 

 

Praying is currently prohibited?

 

no never .

but blasphemy is tho .like the Spanish do

 los Holandeses, herejes desviacionistas, seguidores de Lutero, y los rebeldes republicanos sin Dios de las antiguas colonias Inglesas al norte de la Florida.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15479-importante-y-confidencial-informe-de-la-santa-inquisici%C3%B3n/

 

we only need balance and smart thinking 

[Snoopy]

The Pig Cloud Heresy shall never be forgotten!

[Skully]

so we can add praying? Praying was very historical and even nelson prayed to the gods before the battle

"Tell him, if he wants his Victory, state his intentions to the British, give a prayer to his gods and bloody open fire!"

[KrakkenSmacken]

LETS ME ASK ONCE AGAIN.

 

 

Whether these changes will be introduced along with the announced changes in the Pirate mechanics? If not why Pirate nation (because it de facto is now) is to be excluded from alliances? This puts all currently sailing under the black flag in a very unfavorable situation.

 

Um it's supposed to be a "very unfavorable situation".  I picked what was described as "Hard Mode" in the selection process for a reason.

[KrakkenSmacken]

We are missing a huge opportunity here where each Pirate clan individually can sign an alliance with a Nation.

Or Pirate clans declaring war on one-another.

Basically structuring the whole Pirate civil war.

 

As a pirate, I would like to second this as one more option for this "alliance" thing, but as an individual not as a nation, to facilitate the "spy/smuggler". Role.

 

Each voting week a pirate can petition a SINGLE nation for a letter of marque.

Players who vote in alliances, are also able to vote Aye/Nay or abstain on every pirate that has applied to their nation.

 

[ EDIT: I would give them a way to see that pirates combat VS their national and allies history.  If he has a penchant for poaching their traders, he probably should not be allowed in. ]

 

If the pirate in question is voted Aye, they can fly the nations flag for that week, or the pirate flag.  When flying the nations flag, they are treated in all regards as part of the nation. When flying the pirate flag, they are not. Similar to how the smuggler toggle works now.

 

Every week they want to remain able to fly the nations flag, they must re-petition the national vote.

Edited August 9, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Skully]

As a pirate, I would like to second this as one more option for this "alliance" thing, but as an individual not as a nation, to facilitate the "spy/smuggler". Role.

 

Each voting week a pirate can petition a SINGLE nation for a letter of marque.

Players who vote in alliances, are also able to vote Aye/Nay or abstain on every pirate that has applied to their nation.

 

If the pirate in question is voted Aye, they can fly the nations flag for that week, or the pirate flag.  When flying the nations flag, they are treated in all regards as part of the nation. When flying the pirate flag, they are not.

 

Every week they want to remain able to fly the nations flag, they must re-petition the national vote.

If every Pirate could do this individually it would result in a shit load of Nation spamming.

Let the diplomats worry about the petition itself, then the actual edict is filed by the Nation diplomat to either Clan or Parliament.

That way only edicts that stand a good chance of passing are filed and the Nation itself controls the level of spam.

[KrakkenSmacken]

If every Pirate could do this individually it would result in a shit load of Nation spamming.

Let the diplomats worry about the petition itself, then the actual edict is filed by the Nation diplomat to either Clan or Parliament.

That way only edicts that stand a good chance of passing are filed and the Nation itself controls the level of spam.

I guess that's a question of server population.

 

But to prevent that situation, I would be fine with a clan based two week process with a minimum clan population requirement, so one guy can't be a spammy "clan".  

 

Clan vote to petition one week, affected nation to vote to authorize the next.  

 

This makes those "relationships" naturally harder to maintain, and if you want it to be continuous, better not miss the clan vote week.

[KrakkenSmacken]

I think there should be a alliance system which allow a small nation to have more allies than the big one. This way some kind of balance will be implemented to avoid the big blocks.

 

If they are small enough, there should be no problem in forming unofficial alliances (truces) and strategy between themselves.  

 

Sure they would not be supported by game mechanics, such as what sides they are on, or joint port defenses, but that also leaves them with the advantage of having more targets (AI) and the ability to trigger defensive hostility port captures.

For example these types of allies  could attack each other and raise hostility and force a port battle between themselves to block out the larger nations from being able to attack that port for a period of time.

[KrakkenSmacken]

In my view, the disadvantages are quite big. At the end, what a small nation needs more is support from others.

Your probably right, but we are just testing this model first, so I suspect caution in the form of 1 nation 1 ally is a good starting point.

 

It could be that it works fine that way, simply because if the largest 2 nations ally, then most likely the rest of the server will team against them.

 

Also never forget, Pirates have no "official" allies, which means they will be a constant thorn in the side of pretty much everyone.  

 

I myself will probably focus my efforts on unseating the top dogs, whoever they are.  Odds are probably good a nation on it's heels would be able to make a deal with a rather large part of the pirate group, simply to harass other nations in their waters.

[Skully]

For declining Factions to survive a couple of changes are needed.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15513-nation-ports-production-most-importantly-medkits/?p=289196If possible I would like to see if the following changes can be made as a first step for smoothing the economy:

• Remove contract cost - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15088-no-more-taxes/
• Fix sell contracts interaction with a port AI - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15169-sell-contract-does-not-interact-with-port/
• Remove the minimum price on a contract - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15054-crew-prices-are-too-damn-high/?p=289154

I badly named the first topic taxes, taxes should be a separate topic in itself. Even when talking about sales tax.

Start by removing any mentioning of flags. Everybody is still waking up screaming into dark when having these bad nightmares.

Free towns have multiple purposes, one of them being asset havens for everybody. (Balanced off by the fact that a free town area poses danger.)

Personally I'm thinking of merging this with town "decay".

As Pirates increase hostility it would open up a raid battle. Should the Pirates win, the town becomes a capture-able free port.

The net effect is that it boots the lazy Lord Protector and his Town Council, while Ship Owners and Building Owners are unaffected.

So little impact on economy, in fact it could improve, because now Freelancers (/ Pirates) and other National Plantation Owners can come in as well.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15651-pirate-free-port-feature-tweek-to-help-game-conquest/?p=292392

Anybody could defend. Since everybody can put in buildings, small Nations and independents would benefit the most.

Hehe, you mean hard, not annoying.

"Send to outpost" needs to go, at least for warships. It undermines the strategic aspects of Open World.

Picture two conflict zones next to one-another.

F-P-P-R-P-F-P-R-P-F

F = Free port

P = Deep or shallow

R = Regional

In the free ports (and independent ports) you can only build ships yards up to level 2. National ports can contain ship yards level 3, hence most likely they put the level 3 in the Regionals.

You would then need to continously supply the yards from the local region. Smuggling and intercepting away, generating hostility in the process. Hopefully lots of traders needing regional escorts.

Now should you be able to TP in warships, the whole regional balance would be upset. It would be a different story, if you had another region on the side, which would be producing 1st rates though.

But such a region would be pickings for Pirates.

And ensure Pirates are a "Nation" which underlying/unconscious goal is to disrupt National trade, support underdogs and instigate these small ffa zones. Instead of making them aimless gankers.

I'm not saying we should remove Pirate Nation. But rather tie default Rules of Engagements on it, with the option to override at Clan level. It should also not be an option for Pirates to file National edicts (/Alliances).

So by default the Pirate Nation is hostile to every other Nation and the inter-Clan RoE should also be hostile.

I do agree that in Clan battles should be disabled (or zero reward). The same for in Nation battles.

This should already solve a big part of the free-for-all battle as it then becomes a Nation-Nation, Clan-Nation or Clan-Clan battle.

We can then make the Pirate Nation fully invisible and have the Pirate hard core mode right there.

But if Clan edicts would be too complex or take too much time, then I rather see the Pirate Nation still be a full Nation in the upcoming patch with the associated access to the Alliances mechanic. Until such time that we get to whatever true Pirate mechanic comes into play.

Finally dissuade everybody from ganking puppies in Capital regions.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14244-hegemony/?p=269119

The 3 choices should be there, but do not need to be played out immediately. First and foremost the losing Nation gets access to its previously locked assets (if any). Then those folks can plan their way back to becoming a Nation again from the safety of the "zerg".

Alternatively they concede to their fate and work their hardest to bring about the end of the season.

Note that a Capital should be extremely hard to capture in the first, but without the possibility neither side will give it their full effort.

Coming back to initial hostility I think it should be impossible to generate initial hostility in the Capital region until it is the last of the Nation. Effectively this means ganking a Capital will not bring any benefits beyond the potential ship captures. (Overdoing it will weaken your own regions. Guerre de course.)

If you all want, I'll try and write up a concise proposal when I get back from holiday.