Alliances - final design

[TheAmerican]

I understand the privateer point you make, but being able to switch back and forth between pirate and privateer seems off. Do we want one pirate to have reap the benefits of being a pirate AND a privateer? There has to be some kind of downside to playing pirate(and playing a national) I would think, otherwise the entire playerbase is just going to fly the black flag. Choosing the path of least resistance is human nature.

Pirates associated themself with other pirates creating fleets, invading cities

 

Turning privateers, returning pirate etc. Accepting pardons etc   Allowing pirate clans to  become privateers for a nation, return pirate etc, will  split the pirates to not act anymore as a nation, will allow finally pirate on pirate fights, coalitions,  transforming the pirate experience into a dynamic enviroment full of betray, political instable alliances towards and against certain nations etc

 

I feel that some of the points everyone is making right now are just in vain, since the pirate rework is coming somewhat soon.

[Wilson09]

 

 

Turning privateers, returning pirate etc. Accepting pardons etc   Allowing pirate clans to  become privateers for a nation, return pirate etc, will  split the pirates to not act anymore as a nation, will allow finally pirate on pirate fights, coalitions,  transforming the pirate experience into a dynamic enviroment full of betray, political instable alliances towards and against certain nations etc

 

 

You nailed it !

P.S.: Hard to play, but being "nerfed" somehow (no 1st-3rd(4th) rates), you need to give them something.

Only clans can try to evolve as a nation, never from the start...the diversity of the pirate community

reflects this well. Even if i wanted to join RUBLI....not possible...TS3 = Russian. Does not mean you don´t

play multi-cultural (like sorry). Everything goes...

Edited August 11, 2016 by Wilson09

[Mrdoomed]

Nah - Ill prefer to work within the limits of the nation...

Maybe when time passes this nation will be a better place to be...

If i was a national player in your shoes i know what i would do. I would get all the like minded small clans to form a loose confederation and all vote the same way tobat least have a larger voice. Then i would get them all together and capture a port as far from your home nation and declare youre independence.

Then you have much more freedom without fear of retaliation. ...a little civil war may get some to listen.

[Cabral]

Pirates associated themself with other pirates creating fleets, invading cities

 

Turning privateers, returning pirate etc. Accepting pardons etc   Allowing pirate clans to  become privateers for a nation, return pirate etc, will  split the pirates to not act anymore as a nation, will allow finally pirate on pirate fights, coalitions,  transforming the pirate experience into a dynamic enviroment full of betray, political instable alliances towards and against certain nations etc

 But you already created chaos and trolling, you don't need a patch for that.

[Bulwyf]

Lol, you guys ever read about pirates? They flew the black flag for a reason: because they didn't want to bow to a higher power, a crown of any type. It's a nation OR pirate, not both. I'm fine with clans trying to start their own nation, but don't call them pirates please, that's not what pirates were. Anyways, getting off topic here a bit.

I think if nations are silly enough to hire pirates and get stabbed in the back and crossed, let them!!

 

I've read about them and would say that their reasons for being a pirate seldom had much to do with not wanting to bow to a higher power, that's the fantasy Hollywood has promoted but far from reality. Most pirates got into pirating simply due to circumstances often beyond their control. Being given the choice of becoming a pirate or death being one of them, economic desperation another, sometimes pure greed or slipping into the role after operating as a privateer. There were lots of reasons, freedom and and resistance to higher powers were seldom the reason though and many of the more successful pirates did their best to re enter normal life if given half a chance.

[KrakkenSmacken]

I've read about them and would say that their reasons for being a pirate seldom had much to do with not wanting to bow to a higher power, that's the fantasy Hollywood has promoted but far from reality. Most pirates got into pirating simply due to circumstances often beyond their control. Being given the choice of becoming a pirate or death being one of them, economic desperation another, sometimes pure greed or slipping into the role after operating as a privateer. There were lots of reasons, freedom and and resistance to higher powers were seldom the reason though and many of the more successful pirates did their best to re enter normal life if given half a chance.

I've seen what "normal life" is like in an internet game.

 

I'll stay just a wee bit anti social thank you very much. Too much "normal life" and I think my sensibilities might be offended past the point of recovery.

[fox2run]

If you let power gamers rule the game NA will die withing 6 months max. Not going to point fingers, but one clan already proved how easily it is to destroy nation population and eventually the game. That is why heavy restrictions must be applied per Nation. This includes hours spend in one Nation, PB participation and points earned in contention zones before you  can go into Politics. Please take no offence we are just figuring an honest way. 

 

Thats completely unacceptable. One customer - one vote! End of discussion. 

[Sven Silberbart]

Thats completely unacceptable. One customer - one vote! End of discussion. 

 

That is much more than unacceptable, that is the best way. Wind is right, when he says: you must earn your points to get the right to vote. End of discussion

Edited August 12, 2016 by Sven Silberbart

[fox2run]

That is much more than unacceptable, that is the best way. Wind is right, when he says: you must earn your points to get the right to vote. End of discussion

 

No, we need to have the newbies and the silent players all along. Im sooo tired of a ruling clan-elite in this game. I understand that old players like to keep status quo but this is not the way to keep players in the game. If this game continues to be elitarian - it will be so - with a few, dedicated players left figting over the bones...

[Sven Silberbart]

What about clans? That has nothing to do with clans.

 

A new player starts getting points by helping his nation (selling goods to nation players, OW solo pvp, OW group pvp, PBs). All these things (maybe more in future) generates points.

As more points you have as more votes you can do. Help your Nation, act as a RvR-teamplayer and you can vote.

 

BUT why the hell players who have noting to do else fishing, collecing bottles or doing pve all the day shall have a right to vote a RvR thing?

 

In additon: this is a good motivation to play as a real national.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Sven Silberbart

[Hethwill]

It is the first iteration to test the system. If you look to the full implementation votes get to be tied to Lords which are tied to performance in combat amongst other things.

 

Ease out and let everyone have a go at it during the testing of the system. You will have your opportunity to try to fight for a seat on the Lords chamber. Whether you will make it or not rests to be decided. Words will be empty without the actions to back it up.

 

Damn, glad I changed to the black. Nothing to worry about but my own crew vanity and greed.

[fox2run]

I tell you this as a clan-leader:

 

We should NOT act as a nations prolonged arm. Each and any clan should be for social and tactical purpose only. All customers have paid a large sum of money in order to play the game - as they like. Some like to be a part of a social community, some like to be alone, and some like to change a bit over time. Right now we have a group of players - though dedicated and veterans - that indeed think they should have more right to decide things than newbies or solo-players. This is the biggest game-flaw in my optic and mechanics should kind of make a nations apperance out of the sum of players - not the sum of hardcore fans.

 

The energy should go from power-mongering to tactics, socializing etc. instead, providing a better game experience and a less hostile environment to play in. One way to secure this is to make a weekly parlimantal voting system as suggested somewhere else. Each captain should go to capital and cast his vote. It will function something like crafting hours or so...

 

The sum of the nations politics is for all and is better accepted than if an already established oligarky should rule things. No western, democratic-minded player would ever accept to be ruled over in a pc-game. At least, I wont!! And this has nothing to do with the argument: "then go join the pirate-faction".

 

One captain - one vote. Its an old principle at sea. If a clan wants to affect things, they can just coordinate their votes as a political party. And then they might - or might not get their will.... A kind of minigame of itself. But such a system is more likely to be accepted by the MAJORITY of players.

Edited August 12, 2016 by fox2run

[Skully]

Let me throw out an idea here on voting:

1. The voice of each captain counts.

2. Remove anonymity from the voting.

The second is important to deal with alts and saboteurs.

To make it all manageable Parliament would be made up of one diplomat out of each Clan (as it is now, more or less ). Clan leader always having the right to override.

The actual voting power of each diplomat is determined by the combined voting points of all captains within his Clan.

Voting points for each edict are gained by:

1. Being Master&Commander within that Nation.

2. 1 point for having been active per week, up to a maximum of 4 points. To deal with players that have left / on holliday.

The Lords patch will change the voting points mechanic.

Now comes the tricky part which I haven't completely figured out yet.

As long as a diplomat hasn't cast a vote, the points are equally divided amongst the Yeahs and Nahs.

As soon as the Yeahs go over 50%, the edict passes.

Here be more, because it would mean the edict passes on the first vote.

But what does everybody think of it so far?

[Hethwill]

Gives too much power to the Clans instead of the Nation.

 

Want yer Clan to be heavily represented in the House of Lords ? Fight.

[Wilson09]

Indeed, interesting.

 

Basically, what we experience here in this game in a very basic form is an evolving "societey".

 

Anybody know Anarchy, State, and Utopia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy,_State,_and_Utopia

(Libertarian author David Boaz writes that Anarchy, State, and Utopia, together with Rothbard's For a New Liberty (1973) and Ayn Rand's essays on political philosophy, "defined the 'hard-core' version

of modern libertarianism, which essentially restated Spencer's law of equal freedom: Individuals have the right to do whatever they want to do, so long as they respect the equal rights of others.")

[Sven Silberbart]

..One captain - one vote. Its an old principle at sea..

 

Ok, you dont understand that, so i try to explain my problem in a completly another way..

 

 

There is a sports hall. You need to pay money to rent this hall, to play your favorite game.

There are 3 football teams, and 3 tennis teams using the hall at the same time.

Alle players/teams have payed money for using the sports hall.

 

Now, Football Team 1 is voting for their next match. Against wich team they want to play. Football Team 2 or 3.

Every Player of Football Team 1 have a vote.

 

At this point, one player of the Tennis Team 1 - staying at his Tennis court -, lets say his nickname is "fox2vote", calls loudly:

"HEY! I have also payed to use this sports hall. I also have the right to vote for the next match in Football Team 1! Grrr..."

 

Something is wrong with this, isn't it?

Edited August 12, 2016 by Sven Silberbart

[Skully]

Gives too much power to the Clans instead of the Nation.

 

Want yer Clan to be heavily represented in the House of Lords ? Fight.

Only if such a Clan has captains that reflect that power.

It is a reflection of what we in real life call democracy.

[fox2run]

Ok, you dont understand that, so i try to explain my problem in a completly another way..

 

 

There is a sports hall. You need to pay money to rent this hall, to play your favorite game.

There are 3 football teams, and 3 tennis teams using the hall in the same time.

Alle players/teams have payed money for using the sorts hall.

 

Now, Football Team 1 is voting for their next match. Against wich team they want to play. Football Team 2 or 3.

Every Player of Football Team 1 have a vote.

 

At this point, one player of the Tennis Team 1 - staying at his Tennis court -, lets say his nickname is "fox2vote", calls loudly:

"HEY! I have also payed to use this sports hall. I also have the right to vote for the next match in Football Team 1! Grrr..."

 

Something is wrong with this, isn't it?

 

Depends on how you see your football team. Is it a clan or is it a nation? ;-) 

 

Football Team 1 = nation 

 

So, I guess we agree. All on our team needs a vote!

[Hethwill]

Only if such a Clan has captains that reflect that power.

It is a reflection of what we in real life call democracy.

 

They are given the chance to fight for it. Whether they will or not, they have the choice, the decision is in their hands, is called democracy.

All that remains is the ruins of a dictatorship.

[Vernon Merrill]

I tell you this as a clan-leader:

We should NOT act as a nations prolonged arm. Each and any clan should be for social and tactical purpose only. All customers have paid a large sum of money in order to play the game - as they like. Some like to be a part of a social community, some like to be alone, and some like to change a bit over time. Right now we have a group of players - though dedicated and veterans - that indeed think they should have more right to decide things than newbies or solo-players. This is the biggest game-flaw in my optic and mechanics should kind of make a nations apperance out of the sum of players - not the sum of hardcore fans.

The energy should go from power-mongering to tactics, socializing etc. instead, providing a better game experience and a less hostile environment to play in. One way to secure this is to make a weekly parlimantal voting system as suggested somewhere else. Each captain should go to capital and cast his vote. It will function something like crafting hours or so...

The sum of the nations politics is for all and is better accepted than if an already established oligarky should rule things. No western, democratic-minded player would ever accept to be ruled over in a pc-game. At least, I wont!! And this has nothing to do with the argument: "then go join the pirate-faction".

One captain - one vote. Its an old principle at sea. If a clan wants to affect things, they can just coordinate their votes as a political party. And then they might - or might not get their will.... A kind of minigame of itself. But such a system is more likely to be accepted by the MAJORITY of players.

Your Social-Justice Warrior BS has no place in a game modeled after 18th-century principles

Be gone with your heathen, radical ways, sir.

[Hethwill]

[Vernon Merrill]

Perfect!!

[fox2run]

Your Social-Justice Warrior BS has no place in a game modeled after 18th-century principles

Be gone with your heathen, radical ways, sir.

 

I didnt say that beggars, farmers, criminals, pirates or even worse; women should have a vote. Im saying that all fellow captains on the seven seas should have a vote. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by fox2run

[Mrdoomed]

There are some people who will just never understand.

[Wilson09]

I didnt say that beggars, farmers, criminals, pirates or even worse; women should have a vote. Im saying that all fellow captains on the seven seas should have a vote. 

 

And he replied that you play on behalf of a warmongering, nationalist, imperialistic, undemocratic state

in the 18th century, where the individual does not count.

 

The reconnaissance occured in Denmark late 18th century.

 

---

Exactly, PIRATES is the way to go.

Choose FREEDOM!

(still, pirate unity has been opressed early on, enforced with brutality (KOS))

 

But as, pirates, at least you have more chances to be master of your own fate.

 

 

----------------------

"Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis" ("Thus always I bring death to tyrants").

Edited August 12, 2016 by Wilson09