Grind discussion

[Guest]

Its too hard to grind out Cerberus knowledge slots as 5th rate missions are often against surprises or frigates which you can't beat. Other than that I don't really hate the system. The grind is a bit much as it almost requires you to PVE only. Getting upgrades is a hello kittying nightmare though.

[Prater]

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

Really? Nothing is forcing me to travel anywhere so its fine? By that logic, no one is forcing you to do a KPR mission, so it's fine. 

No one is.  I was referring to people complaining about this, and no, they aren't fine, because no other capital is like that and it is unfair to British players.  Any other capital has missions that spawn right outside and not on the other side of a large island.

 

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

The issue is if you want to go to the PVP, you have to travel, sometimes quite far. If you want to go to a PB, you have to travel, sometimes quite far. Look at New Orleans, it would take an hour plus to get from our base to NO in a first rate. 

Your problem is your base is New Orleans.  If your base is there, you can't expect to take part in anything.  So again, no one is forcing you to travel far, you decide yourself where you set up.  If you want to be close, move, and get closer.  Move to the right area and you can have pvp within minutes.  If I set up at Kidd's Harbour or Bermuda or Wilmington, I can't complain that it takes me over an hour to get to an action location.  I chose to set up at the fringes of the map, despite the obvious disadvantages.  Now if you are talking about not being able to craft from your combat outpost, I agree with you.  We should be able to order our crafting outposts to craft when we are in other outposts.  Or, bring back captain teleports, just not ship teleports.

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

Having a way for players to move more quickly (with in reason) around the map does nothing but promote game play. Players would spend less time sailing and more time fighting, trading, and general shenanigans. My method of Trade Winds and Currents is fair and pseudo realistic. 

If players move quickly, we don't have an expansive map, but a small world.  We end up with Potbs.  A Caribbean that can be traversed in no time at all where ships several hundred km out can come to my aid in a matter of minutes.  Or we end up with a Boston or Washington DC or a Skyrim that can be crossed in 15 minutes, i.e. not good.  If players chose the correct spots, they wouldn't have to sail much unless they themselves choose to sail it. 
 

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

Not sure how or why you think my post has any relation to the KPR issue. I'm all for fixing it. 

If you look at the order of my post, I had 3 sentences dedicated to your post.

 

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

I disagree, with only level 25~ I can get you a surprise a day. with current travel times, you wouldn't be able to get back to port if you lost it anyways.

I'm not talking about crafting level or labor hours.  I'm talking about replacing ships.  You can't logically disagree with this.  It is a fact that only having one durability has increased the time it takes to replace ships.  It is a fact that as long as you had more than one durability and you lost your ship, you could instantly return to sea if the same ship and get back into action.  Now you have to get another ship by buying the ship or gathering resources to build it, and you have to payout almost the same price as you did for 5 durabilities, except now you have a million worth of modules to replace.  I'm not saying bring back 5 durabilities, just that removing them has added to the grind.  Before we got 5 ships, now we get one for not that much cheaper.  The grind has increased by at least double.

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

That is a lot of assumption, but to be fair I believe some of it is in fact related to the gold grind and ship knowledge grind.

It isn't an assumption, read the reviews, read the forums, and reread what I said.  We said the same thing.  I was referring to buying and replacing ships, buying and replacing modules, and forgot to say grinding skillbooks, i.e. gold grind.  I also said ship knowledge grind.
 

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

I have also seen plenty of reviews saying it takes too long to get anywhere. 

This is because people wrongly believe they have to sail the world over.  Pick a smart spot and you don't have to spend all your time sailing.  Why sail if you don't want to?  Why force yourself to sail a lot by choosing to sail out of New Orleans?  Man, in Elite Dangerous, I don't want to fly to the space station when I enter the system, I want to warp right there.  It is boring and a waste of time.  That is the equivalent argument here.

 

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

I believe you are referring to the resource cost? I think they were trying to make 1st rates rare.

I'm talking about blueprints, specifically 5-7 rates, has nothing to do with 1st rates.  When durabilities were taken away, they didn't divide resource cost by 5, so the cost of ships is significantly more than it used to be.  Before we bought 5 ships, now we buy 1, but the cost isn't that much different.  For small ships it is the same, and for 5th rates, it is maybe 10-40% cheaper, wood being the determining factor.
 

2 hours ago, Daguse said:

Take a look at the maps I posted, one is the wind, one is currents, for the most part, they go opposite each other with the exception of a few areas. with this in mind, they could map "channels" with increased speed in all directions.

Ocean currents generally follow the wind.  The currents you show on your map all follow the typical prevailing wind for those areas.  So you increase speed when going west and north but have to fight wind and current when going east.  This is fine if we have a realistic wind, current, leeway (like Sailaway).  But, we don't need more increased speed on the open world.  Choose a different location than New Orleans.  There are a lot more ports out there.  The gulf is a deadzone where you go to pve, not pvp.  That's how it has always been.  That's why US leadership on pvp1 was mostly against going into the gulf, because it meant half the nation disappeared to go pve there.  It sounds like that is your current situation.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Prater

[Hethwill]

Grind.

The process of accumulation of "points" towards a certain level of access. Mechanics can be looked upon but also we cannot forget how the players use them mechanics.

Ramping through Rank XP by killing AI non stop for 24 hours is boring, right ?...

- Winning rank feels okay although "special promotions" due to bravery acts ( decisive BR difference 1:3 for example ) could boost it.

Combat XP should be always granted, even in a capture, even on a defeat. Maybe at a penalty level but always something was learned.

- Combat wealth - It feels on the spot for PvE. For PvP it should ramp up.

- Winning crafting level - this should be addressed to old style, with materials granting xp but also with ships providing less xp - ship building materials give the XP hence the final assembly of the ship give about half comparison to all the materials xp sum.

- Winning wealth - too easy. The cargo space on ships adds to the issue.

 

 

[Macjimm]

On 7/31/2017 at 2:43 AM, admin said:

Lets discuss grind. 

A lot of players are saying that the grind is unbearable. Let's talk what is grind in Naval Action - for YOU and how we can address it?

 

Trouble with the way you have framed this question is that you will get the most elaborate responses from those who agree that the grind is unbearable.  Those that like the game and find it enjoyable the way it is are less likely to make strong arguments that the game grind is NOT unbearable.

We have already created superfast ships with turbo speed that rocket across the water.  Magic teleportation is allowed where players can set up transporter rooms by creating outposts.  We already have a compromise between playability and realism to appease players who hate sailing.

One of the biggest attractions to Naval Action is the experience of sailing long distances and open sea.  They are many gamers who get bored easily and sooner or later will prefer that the environment is a lake and not the Caribbean.  There is a thought that all of us must be crammed onto a lake (rather than a small sea) so all players have no choice but to fight in PvP battles.

If players had the will they could self-limit their use to a portion of the open world and congregate in active areas to increase their chances for PvP.  Players can create PvP.  But it seems that a very small group of players would like to force everyone into a narrow area so that PvP in unavoidable within a few minutes of logging into the game.   NA Legends will provide that experience, so please don’t ruin the openness of the open world while we are waiting for Legends. 

I hope that while Legends is being developed we do not water down Naval Action so much that the long sails and low population areas of the open world are removed.  Sailing is the appeal of the game.  The feeling of travel at sea is appealing.  If we remove the long sails completely we will end up with two versions of Legends.

Personally I don’t find the game a grind.  But I’m not in a rush.  I’m not in a huge hurry to obtain hundreds of millions in gold and fleets of first rate vessels.  Perhaps the grind comes from player’s goals and their expectation of how quickly they should be able to reach them.  I stay in a localized area and find lots of content to amuse myself.   The sails are usually about 9 – 20 minutes long.   Occasionally I will make a longer journey that takes 1.5 hours.  Those longer trips give the game it’s atmosphere of size.  It is having the option to make a longer journey that makes the game fun and interesting.  Heck the size of the current world is really not that large.  Imagine setting out across the whole Atlantic.   Now that might be a grind.

 

Please don’t take away the option for longer journeys.

[Jean Ribault]

7 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

...

Personally I don’t find the game a grind.  But I’m not in a rush.  I’m not in a huge hurry to obtain hundreds of millions in gold and fleets of first rate vessels.  Perhaps the grind comes from player’s goals and their expectation of how quickly they should be able to reach them.  ...

 

Hitting the nail on the head here.  It's today's perspective in the I want it all now without really earning it generation.  Look at it this way, if you had to drive 10 miles to work every day you'd get used to it.  If you changed jobs and had to drive 30 miles to work every day, you'd feel like it's a really long drive.  But the other guy who changed his drive from 60 minutes down to 30 minutes would think it's a great drive now.  As Macjimm says, it's your own expectations.  Stop expecting to get everything in the game and reign supreme immediately.  Then there is very little grind in this game.

Personally I think there isn't really a grind in this game, just progress to be made, but there are a few elements of the game that are out of balance with each other.  Bring the economy to a harmony so that ships are not too expensive, but are correctly valued, and stop giving away free ones (capping 5th to 7th class), that will help much with the economy and other things will balance out better.

[Prater]

12 hours ago, Lordicious said:

2 completely different things and you did not try potbs mechanics, so please. 

As I already said, red zones were the dumbest thing ever.  Why can't I attack that enemy?  Because I'm not in a red zone?  Please, now that is very dumb and very gamey.  Our nations are bitter enemies, or I'm a pirate, and because I happen to be in Potbs' version of modern international waters I can't attack you?  Pvp arena simulated red zones.  It added a spot on the map to congregate pvp players and where everyone knew would be a hostile area.  Good thing we aren't going to Potbs red zones.  Give that to the PVE server.  Pvp will always be full pvp and full loot.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Prater

[Daguse]

7 hours ago, Prater said:

 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

No one is.  I was referring to people complaining about this, and no, they aren't fine, because no other capital is like that and it is unfair to British players.  Any other capital has missions that spawn right outside and not on the other side of a large island.

Again, I believe this is an issue that needs to be fix. My original post had nothing to do with this. 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

Your problem is your base is New Orleans.  If your base is there, you can't expect to take part in anything.  So again, no one is forcing you to travel far, you decide yourself where you set up.  If you want to be close, move, and get closer.  Move to the right area and you can have pvp within minutes.  If I set up at Kidd's Harbour or Bermuda or Wilmington, I can't complain that it takes me over an hour to get to an action location.  I chose to set up at the fringes of the map, despite the obvious disadvantages.  Now if you are talking about not being able to craft from your combat outpost, I agree with you.  We should be able to order our crafting outposts to craft when we are in other outposts.  Or, bring back captain teleports, just not ship teleports.

I never said my base of operation was NO. I was simply referencing the recent NO PB and the duration it takes to sail there. And your right no one is forcing me to sail up there, just as no one is forcing me to play the game, just as no one is forcing you to play, or to play British with a broken capital. My point here is "no one is forcing you" is a shit excuse and a cop out. Ask anyone, if you want to be part of RVR, you'll do a lot of OW  sailing. I'm simply suggesting that sailing long distances to compete in PBs or pvp  could be considered a grind. To help with that I have an outpost in kpr, however, when the PvP action moves, I'm unable to participate. As for TP, it should not be allowed as it takes players out of the OW and encourages gank and hide tactics. 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

If players move quickly, we don't have an expansive map, but a small world.  We end up with Potbs.  A Caribbean that can be traversed in no time at all where ships several hundred km out can come to my aid in a matter of minutes.  Or we end up with a Boston or Washington DC or a Skyrim that can be crossed in 15 minutes, i.e. not good.  If players chose the correct spots, they wouldn't have to sail much unless they themselves choose to sail it. 

First I agree, if it's not balanced we could end up with major issues with to small of a map or ganking issues. I that is why I suggested "channels" like high ways. If you are attacked in one, yes there could be a lot of back and forth, the invisible has helped with this somewhat. However if you are attacked out side of a channel, players coming to help would still have to sail at normal OW for part of the trip and so the battle will close. I'm not saying you should be able to cross the map in 15 minutes, just that it shouldn't take hours. As for the port location, the map is always moving, pb take place at random locations. To keep up with it you will need to do a lot of OW sailing.

 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

If you look at the order of my post, I had 3 sentences dedicated to your post.

And the rest of the lengthy post about how I was wrong cause of a separate issue. Made no sense, they are two separate grinds.

 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

m not talking about crafting level or labor hours.  I'm talking about replacing ships.  You can't logically disagree with this.  It is a fact that only having one durability has increased the time it takes to replace ships.  It is a fact that as long as you had more than one durability and you lost your ship, you could instantly return to sea if the same ship and get back into action.  Now you have to get another ship by buying the ship or gathering resources to build it, and you have to payout almost the same price as you did for 5 durabilities, except now you have a million worth of modules to replace.  I'm not saying bring back 5 durabilities, just that removing them has added to the grind.  Before we got 5 ships, now we get one for not that much cheaper.  The grind has increased by at least double.

 Your right I can't disagree with your statement, however I disagree with your opinion that it needs to be changed. As I said, balance to pvp rewards, and mission loots will balance the grind. 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

isn't an assumption, read the reviews, read the forums, and reread what I said.  We said the same thing.  I was referring to buying and replacing ships, buying and replacing modules, and forgot to say grinding skillbooks, i.e. gold grind.  I also said ship knowledge grind.

No its an assumption cause I've seen reviews talking about travel as a grind. As I said I still believe there are a fair bit that don't like the current ship building process. Personally I have no issues with it. I have access to just about any ship I could want. My problem is it takes to long to sail it anywhere. 

 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

is because people wrongly believe they have to sail the world over.  Pick a smart spot and you don't have to spend all your time sailing.  Why sail if you don't want to?  Why force yourself to sail a lot by choosing to sail out of New Orleans?  Man, in Elite Dangerous, I don't want to fly to the space station when I enter the system, I want to warp right there.  It is boring and a waste of time.  That is the equivalent argument here.

To participate in a pb you have to sail in OW that is a fact, to participate in pvp you have to sail in OW that is a fact. Smart ports have nothing to do with it. You only get so many and so you will have to relocate those ports. It takes to long. 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

m talking about blueprints, specifically 5-7 rates, has nothing to do with 1st rates.  When durabilities were taken away, they didn't divide resource cost by 5, so the cost of ships is significantly more than it used to be.  Before we bought 5 ships, now we buy 1, but the cost isn't that much different.  For small ships it is the same, and for 5th rates, it is maybe 10-40% cheaper, wood being the determining factor.
 

Again my clan can make and replace any ship with little to no notice. I don't see an issue with this. 

7 hours ago, Prater said:

Ocean currents generally follow the wind.  The currents you show on your map all follow the typical prevailing wind for those areas.  So you increase speed when going west and north but have to fight wind and current when going east.  This is fine if we have a realistic wind, current, leeway (like Sailaway).  But, we don't need more increased speed on the open world.  Choose a different location than New Orleans.  There are a lot more ports out there.  The gulf is a deadzone where you go to pve, not pvp.  That's how it has always been.  That's why US leadership on pvp1 was mostly against going into the gulf, because it meant half the nation disappeared to go pve there.  It sounds like that is your current situation.

Take a look at the maps again, they don't go the same direction and again... I my base is not in New Orleans. As I said before balance realisim and game play. 

[Lordicious]

3 minutes ago, Prater said:

As I already said, red zones were the dumbest thing ever.  Why can't I attack that enemy?  Because I'm not in a red zone?  Please, now that is very dumb and very gamey.  Our nations at bitter enemies, or I'm a pirate, and because I happen to be in Potbs' version of modern international waters I can't attack?  Pvp arena simulated red zones.  It added a spot on the map to congregate pvp players and where everyone knew would be a hostile area.  Good thing we aren't going to Potbs red zones.  Give that to the PVE server.  Pvp will always be full pvp and full loot.

Dumbest? Well ok. Keep playing with 300 people online. I won't say a word as you know better. I know how to fix this game, but I don't care anymore. You PvP guys got it well in control now  let's see where you will take it next. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Lordicious

[Corona Lisa]

Grinding in this game is hands down the worst experience ever.

You have to do it because ship knowledge is broken as fck but it takes forever, it doesnt feel rewarding even when you unlock a slot and its the same monotone shit over and over again.

It feels like punishment but you dont know why you got punished.

 

Suggestion:

Give players rewards like paints when reached the next level. This way it feels rewarding but not neccessary.

Find another way to unlock knowledge slots or open them for all players.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Jon Snow lets go

[Lordicious]

22 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Grinding in this game is hands down the worst experience ever.

You have to do it because ship knowledge is broken as fck but it takes forever, it doesnt feel rewarding even when you unlock a slot and its the same monotone shit over and over again.

It feels like punishment but you dont know why you got punished.

 

Suggestion:

Give players rewards like paints when reached the next level. This way it feels rewarding but not neccessary.

Find another way to unlock knowledge slots or open them for all players.

I agree with you, but just by giving rewards you won't fix the problem. Game needs Visual representation of rewards, achievements and goals. World of Warships can teach us how to do it the right way. Clean UI, all ships with specs and easy to compare. Players can take a look at locked ship that he is going to unlock. Naval Action is empty, very empty. It has the foundation , but everything else is missing.

For example 1 dura ships + open world pvp don't go together and is the worst population killer known to date. However, making NPC capturable and re introducing quality chance system when capturing them will quickly restore the popularity. ex. every time player captures a ship there is a chance to get ships with 1-5 slots unlocked. Let's say after I capture 25 ships I finally cap the one that has all 5 slots unlocked and is very close to Player built, but still not strong enough to make NPC ships even with Player built ones. This gives players a chance to spend time and get rewarded with better ship after many hours in game. Right now game punishes players left and right, grind for a week, collect enough money, purchase player built ship and finally go pvp. Loosing a ship is a huge kick in butt, here is your Thank you for all that time you spent, start over you looser. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Lordicious

[Prater]

49 minutes ago, Daguse said:

Take a look at the maps again, they don't go the same direction and again... 

No, you need to take a look at the maps again, and research into those currents.  They follow the prevailing winds for those areas.  I.e.  Caribbean current heads NW, Antilles current heads NW, Canary current (not our area) heads SW then west into the North Equatorial, and the North Equatorial current heads west.  For the most part these follow the prevailing winds of those areas.  The Gulf stream heads N along the US coast up to Canada, one route then goes to Europe, the other turns into the Canary current.

 

 

49 minutes ago, Daguse said:

And the rest of the lengthy post about how I was wrong cause of a separate issue. Made no sense, they are two separate grinds.

You aren't realizing that my post wasn't entirely about yours.  I quoted you and gave 3 sentences in response.  So, you saying parts of my post didn't refer to anything you said, yes, that is correct, because my post wasn't  just about you.  I had 3 sentences directed at you.  The rest were about other stuff.

49 minutes ago, Daguse said:

My point here is "no one is forcing you" is a shit excuse and a cop out. Ask anyone, if you want to be part of RVR, you'll do a lot of OW  sailing. I'm simply suggesting that sailing long distances to compete in PBs or pvp  could be considered a grind. To help with that I have an outpost in kpr, however, when the PvP action moves, I'm unable to participate. As for TP, it should not be allowed as it takes players out of the OW and encourages gank and hide tactics. 

It isn't a shit excuse.  There are long distances in Elite Dangerous, in Eve, and people complained about those but they didn't change them.  Why?  Because then you get a small game easily traversed.  No one forces players in those games to fly long distance, people choose, just like in Naval Action.  Oh sure, there are missions that take you extreme distances, but you don't want to go the distance?  Don't do the mission.

You don't want the long sail to that pb, don't go there.  Simple as that.  Do something else.

P.s.  Pvp doesn't move often.  RvR and pbs might, but pvp does not.  One guard against everyone sailing sols:  the time required to move them.  That was on purpose.

49 minutes ago, Daguse said:

No its an assumption cause I've seen reviews talking about travel as a grind. As I said I still believe there are a fair bit that don't like the current ship building process. Personally I have no issues with it. I have access to just about any ship I could want. My problem is it takes to long to sail it anywhere. 

It isn't an assumption.  People complain about it, it isn't an assumption.  Read stuff on here and read the steam reviews.  Not everyone complains about travel times.  More people complain about grind.  People do complain about travel times, but I already addressed those complaints as those people choose to do it when they weren't forced to.  You want to attack that long distance port?  You sail the long distance.  You don't want to sail?  Don't go there.  Simple as that.  Attack closer, or go to a pvp spot and pvp.

49 minutes ago, Daguse said:

Again my clan can make and replace any ship with little to no notice. I don't see an issue with this. 

I don't care what you and your clan can do.  Not everyone has a clan.  So all the new players complaining about grind and trying to get into pvp and learn the game, they can't replace 5th rates like you can.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Prater

[Hodo]

22 hours ago, Prater said:

I want realistic winds (preferably off windy.com or the NOAA), but why do you need to travel the distances wherein trade winds would help out?  P.s.  Trade winds only help you in one direction.  Travelling back to your starting port will take a considerably longer time. 

Yes and no.

This would actually cause people to use trade routes, which were actual routes captains used to sail to maximize profit for time at sea.  

[Daguse]

53 minutes ago, Prater said:

No, you need to take a look at the maps again, and research into those currents.  They follow the prevailing winds for those areas.  I.e.  Caribbean current heads NW, Antilles current heads NW, Canary current (not our area) heads SW then west into the North Equatorial, and the North Equatorial current heads west.  The Gulf stream heads N along the US coast up to Canada, one route then goes to Europe, the other turns into the Canary current.  For the most part these follow the prevailing winds of those areas.

Not all areas is it perfect, hence why I said most. However look at the FL straights currents move west to east and winds are north east to south west. Again it's pseudo realistic. It's about making the game fun while adhering to some form of true weather. 

53 minutes ago, Prater said:

aren't realizing that my post wasn't entirely about yours.  I quoted you and gave 3 sentences in response.  So, you saying parts of my post didn't refer to anything you said, yes, that is correct, because my post wasn't  just about you.  I had 3 sentences directed at you.  The rest were about other stuff.

Fair enough, didn't see a break. 

53 minutes ago, Prater said:

It isn't a shit excuse.  There are long distances in Elite Dangerous, in Eve, and people complained about those but they didn't change them.  Why?  Because then you get a small game easily traversed.  No one forces players in those games to fly long distance, people choose, just like in Naval Action.  Oh sure, there are missions that take you extreme distances, but you don't want to go the distance?  Don't do the mission.

You don't want the long sail to that pb, don't go there.  Simple as that.  Do something else.

P.s.  Pvp doesn't move often.  RvR and pbs might, but pvp does not.  One guard against everyone sailing sols:  the time required to move them.  That was on purpose.

So there are two things with comparing na to elite in this way. One bigger ships for the most part got bigger jump drives. So your range extended the further you progressed. In na it's the opposite, the bigger ships are slower. 

2nd, you are occupied with flying the ship, you have come out of a jump, scope and turn to the next nave point every minute or so. With na you can afford sail for the most part.... Oh and in elite AI may try to attack you and pull you from hyperspace. 

Also my point is many players want to join PBs but are limited due to time. 

Its a shit excuse cause you are telling players don't play part of the game cause the work can be unreasonable. That is the point of balancing, to ensure it is reasonable. 

PvP does in fact move, look at where the pirates and French pvp now. You wouldn't have e seen a single one in that area two weeks ago. 

53 minutes ago, Prater said:

isn't an assumption.  People complain about it, it isn't an assumption.  Read stuff on here and read the steam reviews.  Not everyone complains about travel times.  More people complain about grind.  People do complain about travel times, but I already addressed those complaints as those people choose to do it when they weren't forced to.  You want to attack that long distance port?  You sail the long distance.  You don't want to sail?  Don't go there.  Simple as that.  Attack closer, or go to a pvp spot and pvp.

Again, I'm not saying people don't complain about it.. Just that it's not the only grind they complain about. And again no one is forcing you to grind to build a ship or to grind up the skill slots. Hence why "no one is forcing you" is a bad argument. 

53 minutes ago, Prater said:

don't care what you and your clan can do.  Not everyone has a clan.  So all the new players complaining about grind and trying to get into pvp and learn the game, they can't replace 5th rates like you can.

So first, the game is not built around the idea that one person can support a full ship building line. It annoys me that the devs don't do more to promote cooperation with ship building. 

2nd, it would be a lot easier for them to make money to replace their ships if sailing did take so long. 

 

 

[Sea Fox]

I am one of the little "red headed step child's" of the game....a solo player. So of coarse the grind is more than unbearable for us solo's.

All grind is good and nessesary  EXCEPT 

Ship grind needs to be relaxed or automatic open slots based on rank...example rear admiril privateer 4 auto unlocked but trinc only 3 and Sol 1

Bring back damage exp

Perhaps finally a bone for the solo's....

If you are NOT in a clan (perk option "no clan") you cannot join a clan bit exp is X% higher

Pvp rewards should be higher and on a slide.....

Pvp battle increase xp based on number of ships you sink in that battle up to 3x the xp

 

[Hethwill]

Correct. 

But remember that redeemable Rear Admiral rank doesn't account for the knowledge whereas if it is a newcomer "grinding" it goes hand in hand.

Still can be eased a bit.

[oleander]

The economy could use some work. More high value goods would be a start. Those are often in short supply and are quickly snatched up when they are. Add to that the enormous amount of time it takes to sail with the current wind model and trading is hardly worth the effort anymore.

Also, payouts should be higher for missions and combat. You should also get EXP even if you loose the battle, or cap a ship. There should be some reward for the effort. With ships at 1 Durability now, and losing it all if your ship is sunk with nothing to show for the effort, it makes trying to level an unbearable chore.

[The Ghost of Sir Edward]

After I wiped my character and restarted I don't think the grind is particularly bad. The BC is a pleasure to sail and fight. Trade and smuggling are reasonable. NPC ship capture is back, with traders that are up gunned and more challenging. The only downside is that the BR system can really impede some good game content from taking place.

If I had a complaint it would be that there is a lack variety in the PVE content on the PVP servers. There isn't always an enemy player to contend with so I am often left to fend for myself. The combat missions are repetitive and somewhat boring. Once you have developed a method of dealing with an AI opponent it is fairly easy to reuse those methods to consistently win. The combat missions themselves would be more interesting if they were actually scenario driven with a storyline behind them or perhaps if there was the option to conduct a series of related missions with a bonus reward for completing them all within a certain time frame.  

[DrZoidberg]

Dear Developers!

My opinion about the grind is that PVE rewards should be like 1.5X money and ship XP like now ,PVP rewards should be 3X  money and 20x ship XP like now. In that way PVE players still can more farm, then PVP players, but PVP players will be able to unlock thier ships without forced PVE grind. Maybe you should focus healthy PVP in PVP zones with PVP money reward and ship XP multipliers.

Ur main problem is not only the grind. At the moment the server goes under critical mass in player base, the player loss is more than the income, and with the numbers u have nowdays just doesnt work anything. I mentioned dayz before that the British TS just was upset about life stealer 2x4 hour ship rearrangement to New Orleans. This happened today with my guild aswell, we send ships to Cartagena, but as screners we havent got fight so we get back KPR. That was 3 hour life stealer no action play.

The hard ship level up, hard money earning and ganking just make low level player leak, the real life stealer rearrangement time, no real PVP rewards, forced PVE playstyle (have to make PVE to ulock slots on ships, because PVP ship XP rewards laughable)  issues make "old" player leak. Top of that seems u have no real conception, how the map conquest should work. Thats a real big problem, as supressed nation gives hard player leak again. If u dont make any real balance, this issue will stay.

Plz read my suggestions, and use some if u feel them good.

There are a lot of boring sailing time implemented, 99% no action in it. This sailing are mostly ship rearrangement between outpost and for hauling. This OS sailing get players from real action, what is bad for them and for the rest.  Let all type of ships move automatically between outposts without cargo with 1 day penalty. In outposts should be an option to send ships to other outpost. The ships should get "on the way mark", and should arrive in targeted outpost at server reset or after 24 h (to avoid get advantage by fast rearrangement). This can give more active players on sea (PVE, PVP, smuggling, cargo hauling, exploring for outpost and for trading missons) against non active players. Btw automatic movement should help players struggled with ships in contested port aswell (struggling with ur best ship in a contested port can make player leak again, and can weaken low populated nations). Top of that i think ships from contested ports should move to the closest outpost automatically without any player action/intervention, so players after holyday or long work or just  a short break shouldnt get themselfes without thier best ships. I think till u not make OS sail easier, ur player base will always go below critical mass, and ur map wont work again and again appart from that what else u patch. I have that opinion appart form that there are lots of whining against making OS sailing easier. Those whiners are without real life, and im sure they wont leave the game, but normal players will sooner or later if they have to sail hours for some or none action. If u implement teleport system again, that is not good. Then the rearrangement (with no action) still stay in game with boring no action sailing, while u make cargo hauling easier, what is bad for trader hunting gametype.

 

About ur new conquest system:

Ur new conqest system doesnt solve the supressed nation issue, as it has no really balance in it, just try to solve the problem with the reset (if it happens). If a nation too strong, it can be stronger after every map round, and can supress still some low populated nations. Another problem, that nations will mainly hit same nations. French will always against swedish and dutch, british always against spanish and pirates. That means aswell that french and spanish always be a supressed nation, what will make player base leak in thiese nations, and nations arond spanish can easily win the map round with no action flips and PB-s. Top of that i still get some sign of that strong nations will trade the win in this system, what is not healthy for a game.

I suggest a new conquest (ruler) system. The war/play on the map should go for the Ruler of the Caribean title. In my system between two nation there will be 3 type of reletaionship. One can rule the other, and they can be equals. For example British can rule spanish, spanish can rule british and they can be equals. If british wants to rule spanish, they have to attack one of thier ports and win the port battle. If they rule the spanish, they shouldnt be able to attack any more port, but OS battles will be still enabled. The British should be able to use the spanish resources (with smuggler flag they should be able to bid on thier resources). If the spanish attack back to a british port, and they win, they became equal (they both can attack again, and British smugglers can not bid  in spanish ports again), and if they win another PB (area) against british, they will rule  british (cannot attack them anymore, but can bid on resources). If a nation rule  all others (get one area form all others or lets say win 1 PB against all others, and not lose any), they become the ruler of the caribean, and they win the map. Then should be map and nation status reset (all equals), but every outposts, xp, ships and so one shouldnt be reseted in the starting areas. This system has loads of advantages. Strong nations capable to win has to attack all other nations, and they wont be able to anihilate or supress others (they can get only one area from one nation). The wars between nations will go for 1-2 important areas or lets say for winning PB-s, and not for getting huge play areas. It should work like a climbing ladder, win against (rule) 1 nation after 1.  In this system there are big chance that strong nations will deplete thier ship pool for the win, as they need to attack all others and defend against all others. Till the map reset (win) the national areas doesnt change much, so easy nation stay easy, hard nation stay hard even if they are ruler or underdog.  The system has the national balance in itselfs, as the strongest nation always against all others. This system doesnt bother the cross play, what i think u support nowdays, as smuggler on ruler side still can be attacked, so own a second character on the underdog side still has advantage.With this system there is one problem. There can be a situation, when nation(s) with small starting area (especially swedish, US) will have only the capitals at endgame. Solution is easy, when a nation rule  all others but one, the last attack should be on 1st rate port or on the last remaining (not ruled) nation capital. If the main ruler win, the map reset come! There should be some tricky situation, but its not that chaotic, as it seems. For example if swedish, british and spain equals, British attack Cartagena (spanish port) and win, they will rule  spanish. If swedish attack cartagena after that, and take it, they will rule  british, while british still rule  spanish. Another tricky situaton if only US not ruled by British and British  attack thier capital but before attack time they lose one port against another nation. In that case the capital attack should be canceled.  Its simple, isnt it?

If u do this system, u have to make new port battle timer system aswell. I think there should be only 1 PB in every 2 (3) hours. The first nation who reach 100% tension at any port should get the first PB (after 22 h, 24 h or after 26 h, as u wish), next 100% tension port should get after 2 hour from the first PB start ( or more, like max PB time+5 min between  two PBs). If all PB time slot occupied on next day, rising tensions should be stay at 100% (no PB at 100%, and slow tension drop or deny  tension drop at all if they reach 100%) and the nation can grind the tension easily up to PB on the next day, and get the first PB time after that day.

 

If u do the conqest/ruler system, u have to let nations attack others far from home water, and help to defend or take back thier isolated ports. That wont work, if u dont let players to make outpost at least 1 freetown, with the capability to move there ships automatically (after sailing there for the outpost for sure) and switch to ship there. This can boost OS PVP very much, and if u let only 1 freetown outpost, main force of the nation will have the same freeport, while minor part can do solo trader hunting, smuggling with it. I think my system can work without making this change in freetown outpost system, but i feel it should be better with it. Maybe its not necessary.

Btw u should boost OS PVP activity without raise ganking. Just make PVP zones at ports with 50% tension, where PVP rewards are 3x in money and 20x in ship XP. Tension drop should be lower over 50%, and after 100% if there is no PB slot on next day it shouldnt be dropped at all. That should pull all PVP focused players there and withdraw them from ganking.

Appart from that system:

(U must defend new players appart from that which nation they choose. They do mainly PVE, so PVP and especially ganking is bad for them. Give an opportunity to players below "post captain" to flag themselfs with "Naval Student flag". If they sail under this flag with a warship, they and thier missions shouldnt be attacked in home waters (!), and they shouldnt attack enemy or join PVP battles either. After that rank i dont think anybody leave because of some ganks, and they should be able to defend themselfes.)  <------ this is not so important after ur patch with capturable NPC-s. The "lowbie" play became more playable.

I think nowdays u want solve the "suppressed nation", lowby player gank and another problems with the long OS sailing distances, but it seems to me doesnt work. U get player leak again and again, because OS PVP is supressed while HC players going for ganks instead of real fights.

I have other ideas, but they are not so important. In my system tow to port is useless, and i think it bad for trader hunting/trader running/trader fleet game.

i think if there are more than 5-10-25-100 outpost at a Freeport, that should be PVP zone aswell till outpost number wont go down. That should help defensive moves aswell, as can activate PVP focused players of the defensive nation to attack ships around the attackers freeport.

After this i would be really appriciated if u sell players some ship paintings maybe specified ship XP books, or anything else what player can use and wants after or before release.  I would be happy if i can support ur game more. Btw sooner or later u must decide whats ur bussinnes model, u want to make this game life stealer and make a faster player base change, or make this game enjoyable and make a real best seller. if u want second sooner or later u have to think about what u can sell for money, If u make things well, u still can make a profitable game, i think. With this fast player base recycle u get under criticall mass player pool really fast, and this leads to nowhere i think.

I wish best to ur game!

Best regards ..

 

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by DrZoidberg

[Skully]

For low level RvR/PvP players there is little to do except grind PvE missions. Once you get up into 5th rates, then things become interesting. After a couple of cutter missions the fun wears off.

Low level ship crafters are essentially stuck, because they do not gain craft XP. Crafting low level ships is a waste with captures being back. They need to grind gold to churn into waste.
They are also blocked by the exorbitant cost of low level shipyards. (I would prefer low cost lvl 1 and lower lvl 2, so we might see more of those everywhere.)

Low level / solo material crafters do not have enough access to resources. Ports advertising production should have a low AI resource production. This will entice the port market to start function with contracts. (Also having clan warehouses interact with the market will make spark it alive.)

Smugglers are hampered to almost extinction. Contracts can not be placed in enemy ports. You have the odd smuggler going for opportunity.

Everybody is hampered by AFK sailing. Ship teleportation must remain a no-no as that would devalue strategical movements. However some form of alternative is needed.

Play session time is "unrestricted". You can't logoff after a battle, so the game dictates your time instead of vica versa. (Yes, yes, abuse abuse )

I haven't decided yet my final stance of Free Port avatar TP. The negative arguments are mostly nullified when population goes up. The positive is folks closer to action.

[BloodyRaven]

For me the biggest issue are knowledge books which drops only from PvE grind. You can PvP a lot and be quite successful with that and still game won't reward your wins with books. You basically have to do PvE missions/battles all over again and have hope for some nice book drop. Or simply earn so much gold to be able pay crazy prices for books like Art of Proper Cargo Distribution which is now like 4-5mln?!

[Lannes]

I haven't been playing the game for months. All of the members of the clan I belong to have either disappeared from the clan or haven't played for months. Yesterday, between 18.45 and 20.15 Italian time, I entered the game. I realized it's difficult to understand because it's not the game it used to be. I am a Chef de Division, a level 50 crafter in an English speaking clan of the French nation. With no clan members about and only 480 players on in total, there is almost no one to ask in English about the new rules of the game. There are many things that have changed that I do not understand.

I spent my hour and a half mining iron ore, sailing it from Fort-Royal to Yaguaraparo and bringing back tobacco. It was BORING, in one word. I made some gold, but it's not worth the time spent sailing. What wargame is sold on the benefits of sailing the seas for an hour doing nothing? A GRIND. During that sail, I met not one single player on the high seas, not one! only bots.

I have some suggestions, but they are only a few, because I do not understand many of the things that have changed. If I did, I would have many more criticisms, I am sure. Even in the current core of 500 players (used to be 2,000 from what I remember) there are many who are unhappy. So, DEVS, your client base of approving players is much eroded.

1. MISSIONS: Make it possible once again to earn gold and XP from a battle win or lose. Bring back the 5,000 gold for a win.

2. TELEPORT: Teleport should be to the nation's capital and to any ports where you have  a post. It's meant to save sailing time which is the boring part of the game and always was.

3. LONGITUDE/LATITUDE: Bring back the coordinates on the map and the location on the ship. It is historically correct that it be so. This discussion has already been had months ago. Not to have them is an artificial difficulty that is a nonsense and adds to the GRIND.

4. VETERAN PLAYERS: Veteran players like myself (Chef de Division rank and 50 level crafting) should begin with two free fully equipped and crewed frigates and the same number of crew as befits the rank, i.e., 800 in my case--each according to his rank.

5. CANNON & CREWS: They are too expensive by far. Instead of having to make cannon, we should go back to getting them at the shop for free like we used to do. It's just another useless impost on time to manufacture them and adds to the GRIND.

6. MATERIALS/MATERIEL/RESOURCES: Materials/materiel/resources should be a whole lot easier to acquire. Sailing for hours on end to acquire these just adds to the GRIND. (We cannot rely on being in an active clan and to be helped out, because this game has become unpopular with few active clans of one's language.) The shop should have much more materials/materiel/resources to buy.

7. TOW TO PORT: The tow to port should be returned to what it was; i.e., to the nation's capital or any port where one has a post.

8. DEPICTION OF CREW ON SHIP: The crew figures shown in battle are a joke. They are less than useless. They have no colour (wargamers love colour) and no correct dress or uniforms. There should be two guns manned by a full crew, one on each side, in the uniforms of the time (circa 1800) with an officer as gun captain, a quartermaster at the helm, and the captain on the poop deck.

9. NATIONS: We need more of them, e.g., Russia; Italian states = Viceroy of Italy; Naples & Sicily; Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia;  German States.

POSTSCRIPT

10. DURABILITY: One durability per ship is ridiculous and a very unattractive part of the game. How can you pvp when the loss of a ship means GRIND to get another? Durability should be restored to what it was, i.e., 5 up to 5th rate; then, 4, 3, 2, 1.

11. ECONOMY: I have an iron ore mine at Fort-Royal. To mine costs me 60 gold per 1 unit of iron ore. In the shop I can buy it at 70 gold per unit, but only get 1 gold per unit if I sell it. What kind of reasoning is that? I have to sail across the Caribbean for 1hr and 30 mins over and back, which is an awful GRIND, to make a profit on it. Both these things are absurd. Iron ore is in demand everywhere. It should be able to be sold at higher than mining everywhere.

That's a beginning, anyway.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Lannes

[Sea Fox]

Agree with everything except more nation's. Maybe more flags but nation's should be grouped together in 3's so that you can fly the flag of your choice but not have so many nation's with so few players

[Custard]

The grind as it stands is non existent compared to games like WOT.

I detest grind in games with a passion, I reached RA and level 50 crafter before wipe I didn't consider it at all painful in hindsight I wish I had concentrated on PVP and actually learning to fight.

[FrostZone]

The grind is unbearable and had put me off from playing naval action over other games lately.

[Hethwill]

16 minutes ago, FrostZone said:

The grind is unbearable and had put me off from playing naval action over other games lately.

What, specifically, in the grind, is unbearable ? Can you expand slightly more ? Many thanks captain.