Seasonal Patch: The Missing Links Part 1

[Nixolai]

Sharing my test results 

 

Windshadow 100m

With the wind shadow you can see the account downwind (Nixolai), almost goes to full stop. 

 

The way to counter windshadow at 100m, was to neutralize but not depowering. Basically the account downwind was still slowed, but not that much.

 

 

Windshadow 300m 

The downwind account still slows down, but not that much.

 

300m gun test medium build(Slootmaekers) vs long build(Nixolai)

Basically longs better at 300m ish

 

100m gun test medium build(Slootmaekers) vs long build(Nixolai) 

(no comment) 😕

Edited August 13, 2020 by Nixolai

[Lizzo]

I think the pen values are way too high as well. 6pd long cannon have almost comparable pen values as pre-patch 42pd longs. Not only makes it mast cutting from long distances possible, but although makes thickness way less important than HP which i really do not like 

[Henry Long Castle]

I like how wind shadow works so far a lot, great job!

[Nixolai]

Test results

 

Windshadow 200m 

The guy upwind goes battle sails, and the guy downwind goes full, basically its almost equal speed. 

 

Sailing in line downwind 

"do not attempt this maneuver"

Edited August 13, 2020 by Nixolai

[You]

@admin the battle sails doesnt really make any difference or any particular good reason to use over full sails in battle if you are the guy on the leeway side of the wind, it gives basically only pros for the guy already upwind , i suggest to add alot more fire probability to your ship if you shoot broadsides while under full sails

Edited August 13, 2020 by You

[Holm Hansen]

can be deleted

Edited August 13, 2020 by Holm Hansen
delete please

[Vibrio Cholerae]

@admin Is it normal that the value of the mast thickness have not change or the new meta demast any ship with 9 pd?

[Cecil Selous]

Until now I just had three battles. The first was me in a teak(S), WO(S) Endy against an AI Belle-Poule. Since the thickness values also got a buff I still had a lot of bounces on the belle at short distances and the usual difficult angles while he also bounced a lot on my hull. So the felt difference to the live server wasn't as drastic as expected. I still murderd him though. Especially from distance, but this isn't the best match-up to test either.

I didn't go for his masts so no comment on this.

 

Second battle was against a Cerb. quick thing not a valuable test.

 

Then I joined the test battle of Nixolai and while I closed in on the three Oceans they shot at my masts. I would say it roughly started at 800 meters and as I got as close as 200m, I was completely dismasted. Granted it was a 5th rate against 3 1st rates and this outcome is what I would expect. It took them maybe 9 to 12 broadsides in total and all 3 focused me. If you join such a battle and spawn close to them or you get tagged very close, you stand no chance against bigger ships I assume. 

I still think that accuracy is too high, especially at longer distances.

 

@admin Is it possible (with a simple change in the code  ) to disable the vertical stabilization after shooting a broadsides for a day or so? I guess not that trivial but It doesn't hurt to ask.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Cecil Selous

[Koltes]

Testbed results (by fellow player)

 > по итогам теста -
> 1. мачты падают с 3х продольных залпов
> 2. проиграл ветер = проиграл бой, тк даже подъехать с проигранным ветром нереально
> 3. слишком много пробития
(c)

———

The summary of the test
1. Masts falling off from 3 lengthwise broadside

2. Lost wind = lost fight, because getting close with lost wind is undoable

3. Too much penetration

———-

Adding from myself. Too much pen makes angling of the ship (as well as armor mods) no longer a necessity and promotes less skillful gameplay.

Gun pen needs to be adjusted  

 

 

Re wind shadows looks like a good feature. The opposite of gun pen it dictates that player must have skill

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Koltes

[Conte D. Catellani]

Interesting feedbacks they are well made 

How is the reduction of the speed in battle sails respect full sails? 

 

[Redman29]

So as I understand it, the changes to battle sails were supposed to made them more desirable in the ability to maneuver as well as having a proportional change in regards to speed per percentage of sail area. 

I noticed from my tests today that there isn't a notable difference. These tests were done with an Ocean. 2 knots difference between full sail and battle sails is a significant amount for a first rate. 

Now after maxing the speed I chose to wear.

It took 44 seconds to wear approximately 8 points at full sails.

It took 41 Seconds to wear approximately 8 points at battle sails.

On battle sails you lose 2.2 knots during the wear and at full sails you lose 2.7 knots during the wear.

After this, I decides to tact both at full sail and then at battle sails. 

At full sails it took 2 minutes, starting at 8 knots, to go from a select point to the opposite point and during which the speed did not go into the negative.

At Battle Sails it took 3 minutes, starting at 5.9 knots, to complete the same tact, at a point the ship did go into the negative.

After testing both the mechanics and physics between the two in game, it doesn't feel to me that you are gaining anything from using battle sails over full sails. You are losing significant speed, they wear relatively the same, and in terms of a tact it takes much longer. Now yes, there is a use when having two lines sailing in parallel as the ships to leeward at battle sails are going the same speed as the ships to windward at full sails, however this does not negate the fact that both lines are going painfully slow and it is inherently better to form a single line in that case. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Redman29

[Luvstruck]

OH

 

MY

 

GOD

 

YOU GUYS ARE AMAZING, HOLY HELL!!!!!

[Urchin]

The more I  read about these changes more I'm convinced this is going to see the end of 6th rates and maybe even 5th rates as well from the PVP server. Everyone will just chase the new Meta which will be ships with 32lb cannons and above.   

[Raf Van Boom]

So wind shadow... Sailing in a line was a thing and with this new mechanic it seems to be impossible to achieve, I think there is a missing link there somewhere. Maybe the effect is too strong?

[admin]

1 hour ago, Raf Van Boom said:

So wind shadow... Sailing in a line was a thing and with this new mechanic it seems to be impossible to achieve, I think there is a missing link there somewhere. Maybe the effect is too strong?

If you study old battle maps you will get it. Ships sailed in line BECAUSE of wind shadow and tried to avoid the wind fully from astern.

Now you will sail as real age of sail captains. Fully aware about leeward positions

[Malcolm3]

34 minutes ago, admin said:

If you study old battle maps you will get it. Ships sailed in line BECAUSE of wind shadow and tried to avoid the wind fully from astern.

Now you will sail as real age of sail captains. Fully aware about leeward positions

Actually you are wrong - line of battle was used to maximize firepower + because of easier control. Before it was invented navies used "blob" formation for fighting.
Just look at these 1588 pictures:

P.S. Have played some battles on Testbed. Can agree with others that penetration is too strong. Also noted that as it seems crew damage from long guns is now much lower than from medium guns.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Malcolm3
added some remarks on testbed

[admin]

13 hours ago, Malcolm3 said:

Actually you are wrong - line of battle was used to maximize firepower + because of easier control. Before it was invented navies used "blob" formation for fighting.
Just look at these 1588 pictures:

 

 

You must read the fighting instructions on station keeping and sailing in line. Maximizing firepower was not of importance as John Clerk the Elder and Nelson found after multiple inconclusive battles - nothing was maximized in lines.
Lines were used to get to the enemy, after that melee what won battles. Blobs were used for boarding like Gangut and your pics.

 

я вам рекомендую снизить градус вашего поучающего тона. 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Brig at sea

[admin]

Announcement 14th of August

After final review of the tribunals, reporting system volumes and the levels of toxicity in general chat I have approved complete removal of Battle chat with enemies, Global chat and Help chat when this patch hits live servers. Global chat only amplifies hate and toxicity allowing jerks to talk to other nations. We have thought differently when adding those chats to the game.

Please take diplomatic precautions as necessary. 

Global chat and help chat will only be present on testbed. 

 

[Redman29]

54 minutes ago, admin said:

If you study old battle maps you will get it. Ships sailed in line BECAUSE of wind shadow and tried to avoid the wind fully from astern.

Now you will sail as real age of sail captains. Fully aware about leeward positions

I agree that wind shadow should have an effect just as lee currently does. But I think it is too much atm. 

Trafalgar is a perfect example of the wind and fleet heading in relatively the same direction. If wind shadow had as much effect at Trafalgar as it currently does in game then the Temeraire would of slowed considerably due to it being to the leeward of the rest of the column, yet was the second ship to break the line at behind Victory. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Redman29

[admin]

14 minutes ago, Redman29 said:

 

I agree that wind shadow should have an effect just as lee currently does. But I think it is too much atm. 

Trafalgar is a perfect example of the wind and fleet heading in relatively the same direction. If wind shadow had as much effect at Trafalgar as it currently does in game then the Temeraire would of slowed considerably due to it being to the leeward of the rest of the column, yet was the second ship to break the line at behind Victory. 

wind on YOUR map is at 135 from the left (NNW). Perfect wind for lineships and does not create windshadow for the line. Try it in game


Keep in mind that the map is not very accurate and there are others where the lines drawn are much nicer. Using exaggerated drawings to calculate position is tight.

 

And if you look at nelson notes you cant judge position at all
https://prints.rmg.co.uk/products/nelsons-notes-for-battle-plan-of-trafalgar-verso-e7102

the distance between ships looks like more than 3 hulls
https://www.artistsharbour.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=186

[admin]

26 minutes ago, Redman29 said:

 

And NNW is drawn incorrectly. NNW would be closer to the north.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points_of_the_compass#/media/File:Compass_Card_B+W.svg

 

[kapteinsnabeltann]

Removing the global chat is a big mistake, it’s not as toxic as you think it is. Me and many others have very fun communicating with old friends in global chat.

its a shame that we can’t talk to each other. 

I really hope you will reconsider it!

 

[admin]

3 minutes ago, kapteinsnabeltann said:

Removing the global chat is a big mistake, it’s not as toxic as you think it is. Me and many others have very fun communicating with old friends in global chat.

its a shame that we can’t talk to each other. 

I really hope you will reconsider it!

 

Talk to the nation

I understand that you view it as a mistake from your perspective. But from the game perspective it should be removed. No more free radio for haters and idiots. Currently they can talk to 11 nations FOR FREE and spread their shit around to ALL players in game. We are removing this ability

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

4 hours ago, Urchin said:

The more I  read about these changes more I'm convinced this is going to see the end of 6th rates and maybe even 5th rates as well from the PVP server. Everyone will just chase the new Meta which will be ships with 32lb cannons and above.   

your post could be one, two years old. an evergoing melody. the end the end the end is near. i think you're wrong. small vessels always have a purpose.

[GalacticHalo]

On 8/8/2020 at 3:44 AM, admin said:

After final review of the tribunals, reporting system volumes and the levels of toxicity in general chat I have approved complete removal of Battle chat with enemies, Global chat and Help chat when this patch hits live servers.  Please take diplomatic precautions as necessary. 

This may be true but they both play a major roll, sometimes people are not able to get into comms and have to type in battle chat, also global chat is how most players sell their goods and make money, as well as chat about stuff, there may be bad stuff but the good outweighs the bad.