Explosions feedback

[Complete-Disaster]

13 hours ago, admin said:

yes crew nukes are too strong.. hulls were wooden and could protect people.

We will

• reduce the crew damage,
• increase sail damage
• keep mast and hull damage.
• We will also try to increase the brace effectiveness.

you have 1 day left to enjoy the nuking fireworks

we will also add crew penalties to fire ship related fittings to simulate low crews required to operate them. it will take longer though.

I was huging the fireship when it exploded, while i was in brace. i lost about 800 crew, witch i suppose is reasonable for a nuke ship. around 5% sail damage IIRC, witch should be higher or maybe demasted. And if you want it make it realistic my remaining crew should have been disorientated for atleast a minute or 2 and not the 15 seconds crewshock. the exploding debris should also maybe put me or my sails on fire causing a fire...

what killed me was anolytic exploding like 300 meter away killing my remaining 550 crew in brace mode. im not sure wether my crew was bracing in the stern waving back to anolytic or if they all died in a massive contagious heartattacks due to pressure...

Edited December 4, 2019 by Complete-Disaster

[Mouth of Sauron]

1 hour ago, Never said:

I think maybe the opposite is true, fireshock should happen sooner and faster with a big fire. Just the meaning of a ship being in fireshock should be different. Instead of fireshock meaning instant BOOM, it should mean that a lot of the crew is forced to fight the fire (unless it's a fireship with a fireship upgrade). So we could have all the effects of fireshock except the instant explosion, ships could only explode if they don't have the crew numbers to put off the fire. 

I like this idea.  Fireshock until the crew can get the fire under control and resume sailing, steering and fighting.  

 

1 hour ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

thats referred as crew dead though. Remember they couldnt hand out rum to their dead corpses and bring them back to battle, but i do think this is a great opportunity to develop and upgrade that decreases the effect your crew has on explosions against them to mix up with the repair meta

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.  I however am simply pointing out that historically fireship explosions DID damage other ships, perhaps to a lesser extent than what we see in Naval Action, but did not instantly nuke 500+ crew off of ships within cannon range.

 

I'm somewhat OK with the current fireship meta.  Perhaps the crew damage is too significant.  I am not ok with the fact that anyone can capture a 1st rate, use it as a suicide vest in a battle, and significantly affect the outcome of that battle with minimal loss to that captain.  If captains want to to go in there and suicide 1st rates, they need to risk the permits and dubs like the rest of the poor schmucks in there.

[erelkivtuadrater]

43 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.  I however am simply pointing out that historically fireship explosions DID damage other ships, perhaps to a lesser extent than what we see in Naval Action, but did not instantly nuke 500+ crew off of ships within cannon range.

What I mean is that battle casualties are referred to as killed people in combat. If you see the Battle of the Nile wiki page it says 2000-5000 casualties on the french side, since it was quite unknown exactly numbers, its being referred to up to 5000 dead or missing ( "French as 5,235 killed or missing and 3,305 captured including approximately 1,000 wounded men" ).

The thing is. In Naval Action you can use rum to resurrect those "dead" and "heavily wounded" crew back to full combat capabilities by giving them Rum. I can still agree that the crew damage on other ships should fall of abit more the further the distance away. But maybe this is a great opportunity to create an upgrade that decreases the crew damage received from nearby explosions?

Source Battle Casualties: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/battle+casualty

[Redman29]

12 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

The sheer force of the pressure change in an explosion kills people. Maybe folks shouldn't sail so close...

Myself, Anolytic, and multiple other ships were easily 400-500 meters away from the fireship and in brace. 

I lost around 650 crew, Anolytic lost 500-600 crew. 

400-500 meters in this game isn't close.

[Farrago]

There should be a difference between a purpose build fire ship and a ship that simply blows up because it was on fire. 
 

A fire ship should have a devastating effect within 2-300 meters at least. Crew casualties, down masts, decimated sails, massive fires from flaming debris. It should also be difficult to control, and have a minimum crew... just enough to handle sails.

A regular ship which explodes because the fire could not, or would not, be controlled should make smaller explosions.

 

[erelkivtuadrater]

Btw I found this. Its not the blast that kills the crew, its the sudden shockwave creating such a huge pressure towards a person that kills the crew member. Yes abit overtuned maybe today. But then it would be interesting to se the effect from a proper fireship with fireship modules. 

@admin also it would be cool if a reaction to the water was made when a ship explodes. 

 

https://www.military.com/video/explosions/blast/black-powder-shock-wave/663779011001

 https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/48484/how-much-gunpowder-could-the-average-napoleonic-ship-of-the-line-carry

Edited December 5, 2019 by erelkivtuadrater

[Medniy Sandal]

Взрывы парадоксально уносят экипаж ))). Вчера в бою от взорвавшегося Леопарда полностью унесло экипаж на Ретвизане . При этом на Ретвизане упала только крюйс-стеньга. Если уж так вынесло экипаж, то почему не было таких разрушительных последствий для других мачт или стеньг?

И еще на взорвавшемся корабле разве должны оставаться люди? Взрыв корабля = смерть всех людей и полностью разрушенный корабль. Без возможности захватить его.

[Malcolm3]

A some description of the last use of fireship in fleet action during Battle of Toulon in 1744, when British used his fireship Ann Galley (light 5th rate or heavy 6th rate in game terms) to attack battered Spanish flagship Real Felipe (112). The witness was Chevalier de Lage de Cueilly, commanding the Real Felipe’s forecastle and later the ship.

Quote

I got up on the poop and recognized the frigate to which Mr. Mathews had sent his boat. Judging her to be a fireship, I had some guns on the starboard side made ready to receive her, and then, so that I could watch her, mounted on a gun on the same side. It is not possible to look outboard from Spanish ships without getting up to some considerable height, because they build their upper works very high so as to afford protection against musketry and grape-shot. While I was considering the best means of saving the Real Felipe from this fireship, I heard a voice three paces away from me saying: ‘Gentlemen, we are assembled here to decide on what steps are to be taken; there is not a moment to lose; my advice is to haul down the flag and surrender ourselves: it is the only way to save our lives and protect ourselves from this fireship which is on the point of setting us on fire.’ I should have taken this discourse for a dream, if the words ‘haul down the flag’ had not wakened me up more than the appearance and approach of the fireship. I looked behind me and saw a circle formed round M. de Casamara, the Genoese, who, at the departure from Cadiz, had been flag captain on board the Real. On seeing the fireship, he had collected Captain Pendrichi, the Intendant Don Carlos Ratamosa, the Major St Just, and Lieutenant Don Pedro Sagardia, and had held forth this harangue to them. It is not difficult to influence people’s
spirits on such occasions, and it did not call for any eloquence to persuade them. However, without leaving my gun, but with a manner both haughty and scornful, I said to them: ‘Gentlemen, no doubt you have forgotten that I am here and alive. I have told the King that His Majesty’s flag shall never be given up to the enemy while I am alive. I shall not fail to-day in so glorious an engagement. Look then, gentlemen, to your courage for the means of destroying this fireship and think of nothing else. ‘Go,’ I said to the Intendant, ‘to the lower deck and get the guns to bear; and promise a reward to him who shall sink the fireship.’ I gave the same order, for another battery, to the Major Saint Just; I sent Captain Pendrichi to his quarters on the forecastle, and Lieutenant Sagardia in a boat to meet the fireship and tow her off. These orders were promptly executed and I added to Mr. Sagardia: ‘Neglect no means of putting the bows of the fireship to leeward of the Real, even though she should be on fire; and see that you drive off the enemy’s boat.’ Enseigne de Vaisseau Don Pedro Arigoni and Don Juan Gaiosa, a garde-la-marine, placed themselves under the bows of the fireship with such intrepidity that the English crew was disconcerted.

They fired a light gun and some musketry at the boat, but could not hit it as the boat clung to her bows. The fireship’s boat passed to larboard. Meanwhile the four Spanish ships which were to leeward and astern of the Real opened fire with all their guns on the fireship, without any of their shot hitting her. She came to within about fifteen yards of us. As soon as she was seen through the ports we fired three guns at her, the effect of which was so immediate and so lucky, that she would have sunk if the British had not made haste to set her on fire. In less than a minute she blew up. I was surprised, for a fireship ought to be much longer before exploding; but either they had no wish to burn us by a slow fire or else the cannon shot had upset their train. Wreckage of every sort fell on board our ship, but no damage was done by it. I myself was covered by burning fragments.
Before the explosion of the fireship, I had seen two young officers dressed in blue and a third, somewhat older, in red and green, who, with five or six men, were doing all they could to grapple us. They were on the forecastle of their frigate and behaved with remarkable courage, regarding death with infinite scorn, so that I admired their gallantry. I heard them give the order for setting fire to the train; they could then have saved themselves by throwing themselves into the sea, if they had not determined to grapple the Real. I saw them blown up in the air and followed them with my eyes to the height of their foretop, without their clothes changing colour; but at that height they were enveloped in flames and reduced to a cinder; they all fell alongside the Real, light as corks and not two feet long. Their gallant behaviour made me suppose they were officers of the English admiral, and had promised him to burn the Real or die. They had kept their word, with courage worthy of everlasting fame.

from Peter Kirsh - Fireship. The Terror Weapon of the Age of Sail

[admin]

explosions were tuned significantly today in the patch. 
please provide feedback on explosions in battles after the patch

[Liq]

An 1st rate blew up about 5-6 ship lengths away from me; I was in brace, Crew shock (300-400 crew) + about 50% sail HP (main mast mid section came off plus some general sail damage) - another friendly about another 1 ship length away did not get damaged at all

[Nooop]

On 12/4/2019 at 11:01 AM, Tac said:

great eye candy , terrible gameplay, a reduction in crew loss and  increase  In sail damage is welcomed in Tacs poop deck.

Good thing none of the trees across the street got blown over.

[Never]

This is the damage from 1 ship exploding that wasn't a fireship. So I think even after the patch, fireships remain the meta, 1 well placed fireship = battle won. 

I think what's needed is more ways to avoid getting completely hello kittyed by 1 explosion. A ship that is braced and has it's sails at battle sails or lower should take minimal damage. Even ships that are very close shouldn't be completely disabled if they are prepared to take the explosion. All ships taking some damage and getting put in crew shock for 1 minute seems like enough. Unless we want every battle to be won just by fireships. 

[Captain Reverse]

but u like it in les cayes port battle)) whot heppend?)

[Tac]

Another fireship victim tonight , resulting in instant death as the ghost ship that remains sails off into the distance.

i would still recommend I think the easier answer is to revert to how it was before the nuke patch and slightly buff it because it was better then than it is now .

The time between fire shock and explosion  and the 10 seconds it takes to brace is to short.

[admin]

18 minutes ago, Tac said:

 

The time between fire shock and explosion 

Its 15 seconds or more.. Never less

Question
Why not use buckets? Like nelson.
Upgrade name is Extra Buckets
In game they almost immediately stop fires and drastically increase firefighting, making it almost impossible to explode you with outside fire.
 

They were on ships everywhere for a reason

[Tac]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

Its 15 seconds or more.. Never less

Question
Why not use buckets? Like nelson.
Upgrade name is Extra Buckets
In game they almost immediately stop fires and drastically increase firefighting, making it almost impossible to explode you with outside fire.
 

They were on ships everywhere for a reason

No it definitely wasn’t 15 seconds from fire shock to explosion , trust me on that.

Would carrying buckets on my ship stop my crew from being reduced from 650 to 0 when a ship at medium distance blows up near me? 

It’s the instant death and damage caused aswell which is still to much imo.

[admin]

9 minutes ago, Tac said:

No it definitely wasn’t 15 seconds from fire shock to explosion , trust me on that.

The explosion delay is always 15 seconds or more. It could have felt shorter in the heat of the battle. Fire shock could have appeared before you looked at the target.
If the battle was recorded you can find the moment on video and post here... 
 

[Never]

35 minutes ago, Captain Reverse said:

but u like it in les cayes port battle)) whot heppend?)

No, read up in other posts where I said at Les Cayes it was over overpowered too before talking shit. It was you guys that cried for a nerf first as soon as you lost a PB wasn't it?

Edited December 5, 2019 by Never

[Tac]

1 minute ago, admin said:

The explosion delay is always 15 seconds or more. It could have felt shorter in the heat of the battle
If the battle was recorded you can find the moment on video. Fire shock could have appeared before you looked at the target.

Fair enough il try and record it, so it’s from the fire shock symbol to point of explosion il try and capture that.

I stand by the feedback though  .

[Never]

Just now, Tac said:

Fair enough il try and record it, so it’s from the fire shock symbol to point of explosion il try and capture that.

I stand by the feedback though  .

I've seen ships explode with no fireshock, sadly no evidence to show. 

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Tac said:

Fair enough il try and record it, so it’s from the fire shock symbol to point of explosion il try and capture that.

I stand by the feedback though  .

In terms of Fireships - we are adding the heavy crew penalties to fire ships so they can be easily identified  (sunday or next week)
Normal ships still carry a lot of gunpowder and exploding will damage your fleet if burned and shot at.
Fire safety discipline though is the responsibility of the whole fleet and fleet commanders. Buckets save lives. 

Speeding up explosions by shooting at target was invented by British by the way, multiple sources say about shooting into ships on fire to spread it. This was implemented after several references were found on this mechanic.

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Never said:

I've seen ships explode with no fireshock, sadly no evidence to show. 

it is impossible after today's patch

[erelkivtuadrater]

2 minutes ago, Never said:

I've seen ships explode with no fireshock, sadly no evidence to show. 

Probably fire right next to magazine. 

@admin are we supposed to use the buckets as helmets so the crew of 600 doesent all die from an explosion far away? I cant see how the bucket situation would help, because now if you get a fire on your ship its like you want to keep hold of it until you can explode on the enemy fleet 😛

[admin]

2 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

Probably fire right next to magazine. 

@admin are we supposed to use the buckets as helmets so the crew of 600 doesent all die from an explosion far away? I cant see how the bucket situation would help, because now if you get a fire on your ship its like you want to keep hold of it until you can explode on the enemy fleet 😛

your crew wont die on brace.
Fire next to magazine no longer explodes it. Fire will first spread around unilt fire shock appears, and will explode the magazine 15 seconds after

We are very worried about wind shadow though now. 
We cant imagine complaints from experienced captains where the whole fleets would get stuck and destroyed because fleet commanders could not manage wind shadow discipline, during tacks

[Tac]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

In terms of Fireships - we are adding the heavy crew penalties to fire ships so they can be easily identified  (sunday or next week)
Normal ships still carry a lot of gunpowder and exploding will damage your fleet if burned and shot at.
Fire safety discipline though is the responsibility of the whole fleet and fleet commanders. Buckets save lives. 

Speeding up explosions by shooting at target was invented by British by the way, multiple sources say about shooting into ships on fire to spread it. This was implemented after several references were found on this mechanic.

Yes knowing which is a fireship would be helpful I guess, problem with that logic is it doesn’t have to be a fireship just a ship that is on fire.

Also shooting a ship on fire makes sense to increase the spread of the fire and cause more chaos making it more likely to explode,but I ‘m referring to the amount of damage caused and the range the explosion reaches I still think it’s above the sweet spot.

i guess we will see if more PBs as an example are decided by this strategy.