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Chain shot limitations - advanced warning


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5 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

@admin can you state the nature of the chain limitation?

Number of rounds for each cannon?  Total weight of chain prorated to ship class or size?  Or hold size?  The OP does not state the nature of the limitation, maybe you don't know at this point?  More details would help with a more fruitful discussion.  Maybe I missed it, I didn't see that discussed.

I would say I will be ok with 200 shots per battle before resupply. I would also, be glad to use a perk that would expand the storage capacity. I already suggested ammo crates as drops from npcs to resupply after battle at sea. With all this in place I see no negatives for limiting all ammo types. 

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Captains Amount of chain shot carried by a ship will be limited next patch (so called tutorial patch) No perk will be required for use of chain (at least for now). Reasons Historically s

Limiting munitions and not repairs is a mistake imo. Also, players that cannot dismast are now hurt even more.... 

Limited chain and maybe even limited grape is the final icing on the cake perfecting our amazing  combat model. Of course it will be paired with damage changes and repair tuning. Captains asking th

as for chain ball:

currently its used for tottaly wrong thing in real life chain was used for destroying rigging and smaller masts and not for making holes in sails.

 

it would be better if chain damages rigging and if player uses 100% sails hist mast could break

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3 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

as for chain ball:

currently its used for tottaly wrong thing in real life chain was used for destroying rigging and smaller masts and not for making holes in sails.

 

it would be better if chain damages rigging and if player uses 100% sails hist mast could break

You could do whatever you wanted. There were no limitations to strategies. 

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I'm all for the limitation of chain shot.....IF repairs are limited as well.  If we're playing the realism card here it makes zero sense to have unlimited repairs (almost a brand new ship sometimes) and then have limited chain shot.  

If we're going for realism, lets go for realism.  This half in half out shit is just flat out frustrating.  

PS - some serious meltdown in this thread.  Not a good look for potential game buyers.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Captains

Amount of chain shot carried by a ship will be limited next patch (so called tutorial patch)
No perk will be required for use of chain (at least for now).

Reasons

  • Historically ships carried A LOT less chain and grape compared to normal cannon balls. 
  • Gameplay wise we want to bring more skill into chaining and limitation of chain will force players to conserve it, pick proper angles to destroy more sail and in general think about its use instead of current chainshot clicker heroes
  • This also means that outnumbered players will have easier time fighting against bigger groups who rely on active chaining as the ONLY tactic. 

Please start thinking about new tactics and of course.... discuss. 

Unlimited repairs and limited chains creates imbalance. Limited demasting a ability creates additional difference. I think this patch will make experienced players (including me) too strong. Let's test :)

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11 minutes ago, Kutai said:

I think they are more likely to see your engagement with the community and turn straight around and walk out the door. 

Sometimes understandable when you have to engage with people who always dislike everything and immediately start with cursing and insulting the devs or other players who think otherwise and mostly derail discussion with unconstructive posts . I am not accusing you. it is just a general observation over the times. And we all have learned that admin is sometimes easy to provoke ;)

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10 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Typically every cannon had a difference of 4 shots, 2 chains and 1 grape - but this dependent entirely on the captain and the merchant vessels would prob carry many more chains since this were their only means of outrunning a warship.

Nope
On average it was 5-10 chains and 100 cannon balls
 

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

Nope
On average it was 5-10 chains and 100 cannon balls
 

Not really true but I'd like to see you ressource. I've been reading up on danish protocols for warships (frigates mainly) and there it seems to be the case. Tho ressources are from 1650-1820's..

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3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

i am curious what @fox2run has to add ^^ For now i am happy that tactical decisions starts to matter again.

LOL it's not tactical. It changes nothing except that after you use your chain the enemy ship can repair because guess what. He has infinite repairs. Limited ammo vs unlimited hp do not work. But what do I know.  Somehow I don't get any arguments in favor of repairs because admin prefers to argue with people that talk about player-base... 

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3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

  Somehow I don't get any arguments in favor of repairs because admin prefers to argue with people that talk about player-base... 

Toxic shit posters have been completely removed or warned. 
Please continue the feature discussion

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1 hour ago, Kutai said:

Have you done one recently? Since they upped the damage and speed of the ships? At 65% sails they still do 12 Knts. So you will have 9 Epic First rate ships on top of you within a few minutes if you try to fight. They also have a tendency to demast you now. 

Done one recently. No one inthe group chained in any epic events we have been doing. Maybe use your head and bring proper ship builds and work together better. #gitgud.

26 minutes ago, admin said:

 I decide how the game will look on release. We all then test and provide feedback. 

Right now you are providing feedback BEFORE testing - which makes your feedback useless.
 

Agreed. Until full content of patch drops and a day or two of testing done. It is pointless just to assume with as little information received so far. Like the concept of limiting chains as long as certain other changes will be made. We will see then.

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2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

LOL it's not tactical. It changes nothing except that after you use your chain the enemy ship can repair because guess what. He has infinite repairs. Limited ammo vs unlimited hp do not work. But what do I know.  Somehow I don't get any arguments in favor of repairs because admin prefers to argue with people that talk about player-base... 

Not  long time ago you were able to repair ONLY once, and your oponent was still able to chain you. This, limited chain ammount,  is basically the same only vice versa in terms of repairs/chains.

 

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6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

LOL it's not tactical. It changes nothing except that after you use your chain the enemy ship can repair because guess what. He has infinite repairs. Limited ammo vs unlimited hp do not work. But what do I know.  Somehow I don't get any arguments in favor of repairs because admin prefers to argue with people that talk about player-base... 

Agreed. Limited ammo (all ammos) vs. limited repairs would work.

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Just now, Lars Kjaer said:

Agreed. Limited ammo (all ammos) vs. limited repairs would work.

Limiting balls would be bad for so many reasons. Ships had more than enough balls for battles to be fair. 

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Just now, Lars Kjaer said:

@admin Is it the desired effect that it will leave just one tactic to win battles? The game becomes nothing about skills but all about upgrades. Is this intended?

spamming chain didnt have much to do with tactics either

now you need to be careful when to use what :)

cant we just test it first?

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15 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

LOL it's not tactical. It changes nothing except that after you use your chain the enemy ship can repair because guess what. He has infinite repairs. Limited ammo vs unlimited hp do not work. But what do I know.  

When replying to Christendom i think - i mentioned that of course limitations of chain will come with changes in their damage and tuning of repairs
The main goal is simple
Remove mindless chaining from any distance
Force the player to think when to shoot and at what angle. 

Look at the difference

  • Hull damage has some tactical depth
  • Raking and grape has a lot of tactical depth
  • Chain DOES NOT not have ANY tactical depth.
    •  It is just ololol clicker heroes currently. CS FN P90 has more tactical depth than chain in Naval Action.


 

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2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Limiting balls would be bad for so many reasons. Ships had more than enough balls for battles to be fair. 

How much more does a chain ball weigh compared to a ball shot? and I've seen rattlesnakes (before they removed that beauty from crafting) kill a first rate by basically firing an unlimited amount of balls into the ass of a first rate.

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5 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Agreed. Limited ammo (all ammos) vs. limited repairs would work.

I dont understand why people want limited ball at all. Even if you play amazing you will die against a bigger number of players because you have no ammo left. How is this skillbased? It just promotes ganking even more...

2 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

@admin Is it the desired effect that it will leave just one tactic to win battles? The game becomes nothing about skills but all about upgrades. Is this intended?

And what tactic is this? Just because there is a limit on chain (which we dont even know yet) doesnt mean angling and positioning are irrelevant.

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7 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

@admin Is it the desired effect that it will leave just one tactic to win battles? The game becomes nothing about skills but all about upgrades. Is this intended?

What are you talking about? So shooting chains forever was skilled?

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2 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

I dont understand why people want limited ball at all. Even if you play amazing you will die against a bigger number of players because you have no ammo left. How is this skillbased? It just promotes ganking even more...

And what tactic is this? Just because there is a limit on chain (which we dont even know yet) doesnt mean angling and positioning are irrelevant.

Where's the skill in having a ship that can't be demasted (due to upgrades) and fighting a shitty noob that can easily be demasted due to no upgrades? And with the limited access to the best woods then it becomes even less skill based. The entire argument based in skill is a false premise when the ships are so heavily unbalanced if favour of a limited few as they are.. I know that I've won my share of fights - not because I'm some magically gifted prodigy in naval action but simply because: I had the better ship, I had the better upgrades, I had the better ship knowledges..

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Just now, admin said:

Chain did not have ANY tactical depth. It is just ololol clicker heroes before. CS FN P90 has more tactical depth than chain in Naval Action.

You cannot seriously mean that? Chaining is attacking an enemies ability to out maneuver you and to take his wind. Chaining ensures you have the sail advantage to get yourself into an tactical position to strike. Now with unlimited repairs and rum a stern rake does nothing. The wind means nothing with all the wind shifting. Positioning has less meaning because of wind shifting. You cannot make these changes to combat system and say its more hardcore. Naval action used to be hardcore. It isn't hardcore anymore. 

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