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Chain shot limitations - advanced warning


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55 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

A few weeks ago, sailing in a Surprise around Bridgestone (out of safe area) I saw another Surp and and I sailed to her for engaging. This captain first run to Cariacou, then put sails down at mid distance. Knowing what should follow, I made for him, he just chained my sails. I was at carronade range with reduced sails when two other frigates (Endy + PFrig) entered the dance.

I sent a last carro broadside to the Surp and decided to sail away of these three cowards. 

Obviously I repaired sails at least three times, once immediatly and two or three times after, the three cowards relaying each others in endless chaining my sails, and later my masts. I returned fire, I think each of them had to repair maximum once.

I could escape only because I had rig repairs enough. Limiting repairs would only give another advantage to ganking cowards.

Your anecdote is better suited for limiting chain, if anything.

I've been thinking a 4-1 repair (4 of either hull or sail, by choice) would be better than a 2-2-1 repair system given that most actions revolve around the disabling of the enemy ships. Heck I'd take 3-1-1 over 2-2-1 if I had a choice. I use my rig repairs more than hulls in any given battle.

But more than 5 sail repairs in any battle is a drain on the immersion and realism that has been so carefully crafted in the battle instance. There has to be a point where enough is enough and a decisive action is achieved through skill and marksmanship. That will teach players to play carefully and wait for an opening, not rely on repair meta to bail them out every mistake which imo is what has caused people to form such bad habbits because they aren't learning anything besides whoever carries the most repairs lives the longest.

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Captains Amount of chain shot carried by a ship will be limited next patch (so called tutorial patch) No perk will be required for use of chain (at least for now). Reasons Historically s

Limiting munitions and not repairs is a mistake imo. Also, players that cannot dismast are now hurt even more.... 

Limited chain and maybe even limited grape is the final icing on the cake perfecting our amazing  combat model. Of course it will be paired with damage changes and repair tuning. Captains asking th

18 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Your anecdote is better suited for limiting chain, if anything.

I've been thinking a 4-1 repair (4 of either hull or sail, by choice) would be better than a 2-2-1 repair system given that most actions revolve around the disabling of the enemy ships. Heck I'd take 3-1-1 over 2-2-1 if I had a choice. I use my rig repairs more than hulls in any given battle.

But more than 5 sail repairs in any battle is a drain on the immersion and realism that has been so carefully crafted in the battle instance. There has to be a point where enough is enough and a decisive action is achieved through skill and marksmanship. That will teach players to play carefully and wait for an opening, not rely on repair meta to bail them out every mistake which imo is what has caused people to form such bad habbits because they aren't learning anything besides whoever carries the most repairs lives the longest.

Let’s see in above example what would occur with limited chains and limited ammos.

  • The Surprise would first finish his chain ammos, reducing my sails to 75%. I counter him. He repairs. I repair. He his out out chain ammos. I still have some.
  • The Endy would then come and chain me again. I counter chain. He repairs. I repair. I am out of chains ammos and of rig repairs. He still has some.
  • The Pirate Frigate comes then and chains me. I can only reply with balls. I have precision upgrades and I am lucky enough to kill one top mast. He repairs. I can’t repair.
  • The three gankers can now have an easy and no fun kill.

So limiting repairs is giving a definitive advantage to gankers, which is fun killing.

 :( :P :(

Edited by Eleazar de Damas
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14 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The game is declining quite fast population wise... Many are getting bored.

Many "old" players are getting bored, for sure. My clan lost almost all his officers during the last three months. But there are a lot of new players, who are keeping the population to around 500 every evening.

Edited by Eleazar de Damas
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5 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

Let’s see in above example what would occur with limited chains and limited ammos.

  • The Surprise would first finish his chain ammos, reducing my sails to 75%. I counter him. He repairs. I repair. He his out out chain ammos. I still have some.
  • The Endy would then come and chain me again. I counter chain. He repairs. I repair. I am out of chains ammos and of rig repairs. He still have some.
  • The Pirate Frigate comes then and chain me. I can only reply with balls. I have precision upgrades and I am lucky enough to kill one top mast. He repairs. I can’t repair sails.
  • The three gankers can now have an easy and no fun kill.

So limiting repairs is giving a definitive advantage to gankers, which is fun killing.

But this battle started with you attacking, no? You did chase the surprise to wherever and he was close enough to get 2 friendly reinforcements in time for battle to close. I would say you got ambushed good and proper. These guys must've been pretty bad to let you get away on a 3v1, but I've seen it so many times where you escape or even sink against those odds depending on ships and players of course.

Point is I'd say those players earned at the very least that fight, not so much the kill in this circumstance. To say that's an easy kill, well yeah you kinda put yourself in the position to get ganked didn't ya? :D

Now of course you're probably disagreeing with me already, I totally understand why too. It's not like the game revolves around this layer of tactic to OW. We hardly see OW as anything more than a buffer from ports to battle given the way traffic moves on OW, where game mechanics take players and where fights are set up. As in, there is no mechanics. It's completely up to the player to find pvp and reward himself which doesn't really work in that you should go to the enemies capital with as many ships to fight a response fleet, which means waves of gankers rolling populated areas.

Not really great for the game, if ow pvp meant go fight for an objective like rvr is having ports that you take and hold, accompanied with the appropriate rewards for participating there'd be no reason to hunt at capitals, pvp would for the most part take place far away attacking or defending areas of territory just like rvr. For some reason up until now we've been treating OW as a side to RVR, rvr can't hold up ow, ow needs it's own features, mechanics and territory to be just as good as RVR.

Current Patrol modes are kinda what we need but smaller and more scattered.  Right now they're so stupidly big and out of the way it's like why even have OW if you think this alone is what makes pvp good. Patch couldn't come sooner for these things :)

 

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4 hours ago, rediii said:

Multirrpairs add depth to battles and another needed skill. Actually the patch of the multirepairs made battles shorther. Yes, shorter. But only for players that understand that you need to get up close to realy do damage. (which is historical)

Change of wind in battles is great, it makes it necessary for you to watch the clock and adjust every 15 min and turn battles like that, it makes battles more interesting.

 

Incredible repairing ships are as retarded as unlimited ammo imo, hardly historical lol.

I don't get why all the hating on chain yet insane buff fueled repairing is ok.

See how it turns out though is testing after all.

Edited by Dibbler
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1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

I dont need a chart to see how the game is going, I play it. The game is only really alive on Sundays.

The overall activity of the server in the last few weeks has been quite low, which turns the game into boring.

 

 

 

 

 

 Well everyone seems to forget that when a change comes that suits a few loud voices that there are other games out there.

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1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

But this battle started with you attacking, no? You did chase the surprise to wherever and he was close enough to get 2 friendly reinforcements in time for battle to close. I would say you got ambushed good and proper. These guys must've been pretty bad to let you get away on a 3v1, but I've seen it so many times where you escape or even sink against those odds depending on ships and players of course.

Point is I'd say those players earned at the very least that fight, not so much the kill in this circumstance. To say that's an easy kill, well yeah you kinda put yourself in the position to get ganked didn't ya? :D

Now of course you're probably disagreeing with me already, I totally understand why too. It's not like the game revolves around this layer of tactic to OW. We hardly see OW as anything more than a buffer from ports to battle given the way traffic moves on OW, where game mechanics take players and where fights are set up. As in, there is no mechanics. It's completely up to the player to find pvp and reward himself which doesn't really work in that you should go to the enemies capital with as many ships to fight a response fleet, which means waves of gankers rolling populated areas.

Not really great for the game, if ow pvp meant go fight for an objective like rvr is having ports that you take and hold, accompanied with the appropriate rewards for participating there'd be no reason to hunt at capitals, pvp would for the most part take place far away attacking or defending areas of territory just like rvr. For some reason up until now we've been treating OW as a side to RVR, rvr can't hold up ow, ow needs it's own features, mechanics and territory to be just as good as RVR.

Current Patrol modes are kinda what we need but smaller and more scattered.  Right now they're so stupidly big and out of the way it's like why even have OW if you think this alone is what makes pvp good. Patch couldn't come sooner for these things :)

 

I agree with you on most points. :) :) :) :)

First of all, I agree with you in the fact that I was knowing, seeing a guy suddenly stopping running away and suddenly accepting a fight, that this coward was sure of being reinforced. Otherwise he would have accepted the 1v1 in same ships… But from times to time, let’s be fool and take the risk to loose pixels. I often experienced that being fool gives more fun.

I agree with you that OW PvP would be more interesting if players do not have to sail miles away on capitals to find opponents. And on capitals, most of times, you can find only noobs and counter fleets, may reason why I don’t go in enemy capitals any more.

But let’s dream: (@admin)

  • Let’s dream to a game in which repairs can only repair 50% of the damage. For example, you were first at 100% Hull, someone puts a side to 40%. Even using two repairs, having Northern Master Carpenter, iron tools, carpenter perk and so on, you can go back to 70% max (40% + (100%-40%)/2). Then someone puts again the same side to 40%. You can repair up to 65 % (40%+(70%-40%)/2), etc.). In fact, you could repair max to (Status_when_launching_repair + Status_when_launching_previous_repair) / 2.
  • Let’s dream to a game in which you can take a limited number of ammo, and choose which ammo you take, this increasing the hold content just as presently the repairs do, and the hold content decreasing the ship speed in a more linear manner than today. Hold should be filled if you take 300 shots per gun in a first rate, and in this case you cannot get repairs anymore, to be adjusted... The weight of chains and double load should be 2 times the weight of balls, the weight of double charge 1.5 times single charge.
  • Let’s dream in a game in which you can use double charge only if your guns are cold enough.
  • Let’s dream in a game in which chains can break masts (as historically, they were used to break ropes, yards and masts). Aren’t, in fact, chains like double shots?
  • Let’s dream in a game in which rules of engagement limit ganking capabilities, and reinforcement capabilities by counter fleets.

Let’s have dreams… (And I know that my dreams would give a lot of work to developpers :P )

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5 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

Let’s see in above example what would occur with limited chains and limited ammos.

  • The Surprise would first finish his chain ammos, reducing my sails to 75%. I counter him. He repairs. I repair. He his out out chain ammos. I still have some.
  • The Endy would then come and chain me again. I counter chain. He repairs. I repair. I am out of chains ammos and of rig repairs. He still has some.
  • The Pirate Frigate comes then and chains me. I can only reply with balls. I have precision upgrades and I am lucky enough to kill one top mast. He repairs. I can’t repair.
  • The three gankers can now have an easy and no fun kill.

So limiting repairs is giving a definitive advantage to gankers, which is fun killing.

 :( :P :(

Unlimited repairs make you last longer. You are able to take more hits from your enemies but probably wont make you to win or survive it.

If we had 1 repair kit you could get one of these guys in a bad shape and he could not come back to fight again or he would risk getting sank. He would be back in fight later with unlimited repairs.

1vs3 means that you have to have higher dps than these 3 can repair. More and more ships we add means that eventually you cannot do more dps which means you cannot win simply because enemy is able to repair more. It does not matter how skillful player you are when your enemy can repair more than you can do damage.

Earlier with 1 repair kit you were able to use your time to position yourself well. Today if you spent too much time positioning yourself your enemy will repair his ship obviously. A skillful captain who sails well and plays smartly is nerfed very efficiently with repair kits.

1vs3, it can be that you have to wait that your enemy makes a mistake and punish him hard when that happens. With repair kits, they can later wait 20 minutes and repair twice and back in battle.

If you know you don't have skill and you will lose the 1vs3 fight anyway, repair kits make you last longer.

If you are ready to fight and play smart and probably will lose the 1vs3 fight, repair kits will only harm you.

Long time ago it was nice that wrecked ships that were hardly floating actually left the battle scene. Today they just wait there to get more HP.

Disabling effects, rigging damage, should be low enough that it doesnt simply doom you vs ganks.

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6 hours ago, jodgi said:

Show me where...

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Those numbers are just sad... REAL sad.

1 year ago.. there was roughly 70% more players on average.  2 years ago, it was about the same as now.

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And in this graph we show the typical destructive path of biased decisions to a successful product.

It is in the nature of a bias that a person does not know they have it. When the bias is reinforced by even a small minority that share the bias it can make much excellent work meaningless. The bias just destroys.

Limits on chain are a self evident idea that took how many years to implement? lol

 

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On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 9:43 AM, Cmdr RideZ said:

3.5 months and your second post makes more sense than what most vets or devs say. May I ask what is your in game name?

Angus MacDuff....I be a Pirate matey!

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:05 PM, Christendom said:

Limiting chain without limiting repairs is absurdly stupid IMO

It is limited by weight and cost... and your mechanic never works against real pvpers Muhahahahahahaha.  

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On 4/11/2018 at 6:05 PM, Havelock said:

I just got sunk yesterday by a group of 6 ships that kept chaining me to 50% and only started shooting hull after they finally demasted me to 6% so... yeah, i think this will help!

So have you tested yet? Imo ganking is easier now. 

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The chain damage buff makes ganking much easier atm. Reducing the amount of repairs will decrease the chance of escaping. Yesterday I attacked a brit. Endymion with my Endymion in the brit. reinforcementzone. About 15 brit. ships joined the fight constantly chaining one after the other. No chance to escape with the buffed chain damage. The amount of repairs is nervend by the fact that you will loose speed because of the weight of the repairunits and you will never catch all those chickens or escape a gankingsquad in a slow ship.  

The whole mechanic feels broken after the chainbuff and will force ganking. Reducing the amount of repairs will make it even worse. 

 

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In a 15 vs 1, it doesn't matter what you do, if you are close enough, nothing will save you. I had a few 1v1, 1v 2-3 fights since the buffed chain damage and i love it. A good broadside of chain followed by one or two aimed at the hull instantly puts one ship in the dilemma of repairing sails or hull. Its very tactical as it should be. 

If you are against one or two small ships harassing you in your 4th-3dr rate, now there is a lot more chance that you leave them crippled after they used up all their chains on your sails. again, great stuff.

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5 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

No thanks, they're like that for a reason.

They where like that to give trade ships a chance a long long long time ago before a lot of current mechanics where even put into play, it's a very out dated system and needs to be removed.  One guy being chances can hold off three ships cause he hits with chain every time that the other three can't hit with cause of bad accuracy at that range.  You ever wonder why you always see bow guns on modern ships?  Cause the stern is normally very bad for making any shots.  

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My personal opinion: the chain shots are ok and the fact that from a long distance they do little damage is ok. The damage close up with the right angle is perfect, now chaining must be planned! One thing I do not understand, how a player can repair 40% of sails in one repair! I would like to know from the @admin if this is possible. Thank you.

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My personal opinion is that we should buy and load the ship with ammo and repairs/rum.

All will have their own weight and its up to the captains choose how better prepare his ship to battle. One can overload the ship with everything and will be sailing a turtle. Don't need to limit the amount of repair or shots as a game mechanic, let the weight of the ammo and repairs do it.

This mechanic is already in game, just need to be better worked out.

Edited by Jim Tiberius
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