NethrosDefectus Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) I and many others prefer to sail frigates (mine are T/W or very occasionally T/T before anyone accuses me of "only wanting to sail F/F run away ships") but currently they seem to be slightly redundant because everyone seems to be sailing around in 4th rates and up. This has been made a LOT worse with the introduction of the patrol missions (no one needs to mention the one in the Bahamas, I am aware) because that's what a majority of people are taking into those zones. It's one of the primary factors in me avoiding them altogether, I understand why they are taking them but it doesn't change the fact that it ruins the chances of a decent fight in a frigate. I propose two options: Either have the Patrol missions a shallow water/Bahamas thing only. IF as people claim, they go to the patrol zones to find quick and guaranteed PvP then they wont mind not being allowed to sail line ships in the patrols and combat news will stay as active as ever. ( My personally preferred option as it would allow the rest of the map to return to normal) OR Introduce rating limits into the patrol missions that change in the same way that the location of the patrols themselves. I'm not sure if the zone is randomly chosen or on a set rotation but for example: Monday, Antilles Patrol - Maximum rate allowed is 5th Tuesday, Nassau Patrol Wednesday, Hispaniola Patrol - Maximum rate allowed is 2th (It's a "patrol", not sure 1st rate ships were historically used to patrol waters regularly, but I could be wrong) etc etc. Personally I believe most of the people that will object to this will be those that take a group of lineships into the patrols because they rely on them to deal out the damage required in the first place. But that is of course just speculation. @admin On a connected note and just out of curiosity, do the Nassau patrols see any less or more action than the other patrol locations? Edited March 25, 2018 by NethrosDefectus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) If Devs decide do so, than they should reduce also the damage tresholds for getting prizes. Edited March 25, 2018 by victor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, victor said: If Devs decide do so, than they should reduce also the damage tresholds for getting prizes. Certainly something to consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I think the main reason frigates don't dare to enter the zone is because battles stay open for half an hour. if you get yourself a decent frigate fight, there can still be reinforcments on either side for 30 min until the "max BR" is full. It should be like this imo: First, battles is open for 3 minutes for anyone to join. No restrictions. After that, battle stays open for players to join each side until it has reached 1.5x the BR of the other side. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I prefer the Nassau zone for PVP, because I know even though it may be 6v1, you wont have 2 trincs, 3 Wasas and a Buc against your Essex. And when you do find that magical 1v1, it is against a similar strength ship. I actually had great fun fighting an American in his heavy rattle and almost had his structure to 0, until he finally capped my trader brig. Good fight Captain Mikey! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Atreides said: I prefer the Nassau zone for PVP, because I know even though it may be 6v1, you wont have 2 trincs, 3 Wasas and a Buc against your Essex. And when you do find that magical 1v1, it is against a similar strength ship. I actually had great fun fighting an American in his heavy rattle and almost had his structure to 0, until he finally capped my trader brig. Good fight Captain Mikey! the shallow event makes fun. the deep water events can also be removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Wildcat Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Liq said: I think the main reason frigates don't dare to enter the zone is because battles stay open for half an hour. if you get yourself a decent frigate fight, there can still be reinforcments on either side for 30 min until the "max BR" is full. It should be like this imo: First, battles is open for 3 minutes for anyone to join. No restrictions. After that, battle stays open for players to join each side until it has reached 1.5x the BR of the other side. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 41 minutes ago, Intrepido said: And many others prefer to sail other kind of ships than frigates. I'm sure they do, but what does that contribute to this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsman Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Just make patrol events limited to either 1-3, 4-5 or 6-7 rates, changing every day and keep them rotating in this order so people can schedule when they want to play. Seems like a given and easy to implement to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKurj Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 These are poorly implemented and not bringing anyone out to them that wasn't pvp'n before. And now they have turned into an excuse to harvest marks due to that poor design. Between ganks, a frustrating loot system, and the time it takes to do anything in game, my patience has run out.. yup burned out again, mebbe see you at release. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonys Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 do you know what is funny ......... The Dutch do not participate at all..... funny isn't it so what's your complain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potemkin Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Landsman said: Just make patrol events limited to either 1-3, 4-5 or 6-7 rates, changing every day and keep them rotating in this order so people can schedule when they want to play. Seems like a given and easy to implement to me. If you did that, you'd need to make a zero pvp mark reward for sinking players inside the pvp zone while in a ship outside the proposed limits or you'd probably still see 1st rate fleets farming marks, just without the zone reward in the 4-5 limit events. Edited March 25, 2018 by Potemkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navalus Magnus Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 12 hours ago, Liq said: I think the main reason frigates don't dare to enter the zone is because battles stay open for half an hour. if you get yourself a decent frigate fight, there can still be reinforcments on either side for 30 min until the "max BR" is full. It should be like this imo: First, battles is open for 3 minutes for anyone to join. No restrictions. After that, battle stays open for players to join each side until it has reached 1.5x the BR of the other side. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navalus Magnus Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Wraith said: Let's just bring back no-loss, no-reward small, large, and duel battles via the Missions tab and be done with it. Put up a leader board for lobby-based fights boom, leave the open world for the sandbox play with a minimum of restrictions. That‘s probably even better than Liqs suggestions, because you wouldn‘t spoil the OW feeling with artificial „you-can‘t-escape - fight-and-sink-missions“. But if devs changed the character of the patrol missions, and you would be able to just have decent PvP fights without the arena feeling / circle of death, it would also be fine imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palatinose Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Wraith said: Again, why are we bending over backwards to implement some kind of special RoE in these Event zones to create "fair and balanced" fights? This is an open world, sandbox where if you're getting a fair and balanced fight then you're probably doing something wrong... Let's just bring back no-loss, no-reward small, large, and duel battles via the Missions tab and be done with it. Put up a leader board for lobby-based fights boom, leave the open world for the sandbox play with a minimum of restrictions. These events are poorly implemented, no doubts. Still small and large battles don't work. Why? No rewards. So i really like the limiting the patrol to certain rates. For those not doing much pvp this could be fun. Basically just really grab a shop frigs and do it. If it gets destroyed by two firsts like now, whats the use for the new pvper? None but frustration. To the one saying this limits me in my freedom to sail the ship i like: Groups of tough 1sts limit me in my freedom aswell. One can invert this. Got no problem with the patrol zones, if I don't want to, I just don't sail there. If we had rate-limited events one would also see solo hunters again: patroling around the zones looking for single targets. Just a thought. Edited March 26, 2018 by Palatinose 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Wraith said: Again, why are we bending over backwards to implement some kind of special RoE in these Event zones to create "fair and balanced" fights? Because some of us think it's more fun with a challenging fight compared to your sandbox gank-or-run. Quote This is an open world, sandbox where if you're getting a fair and balanced fight then you're probably doing something wrong... I wonder why people sit in green-zones...? Ah, yes! They're avoiding "doing something wrong". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Wraith said: But why would you of all people object to reincorporating small/large/duels into the menu system of the Naval Action game I don't. 1 hour ago, Wraith said: Honestly, I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever seen you in the actual, open world Ah, the old STFU ploy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 49 minutes ago, Wraith said: Not at all! I'm just wondering how much of and where in the game you've been testing the current mechanics and RoE I'm extremely casual, mostly because of time constraints. My entire online time I've spent setting up outposts at patrol areas and done patrol missions. I've helped Laik speed grind too, but that doesn't count. 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubbyZebra Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I don't participate in the PvP missions (as a Trader and a Prince & Frigate captain) for 2 reasons: 1) no escape. Sometimes, the only viable defense is to escape and attempt to find a more favorable situation. This is especially true for traders than find themselves in a battle inadvertently or where your battle is essentially over (1 or 2 heavily damaged ships remain) and suddenly 5 new enemies of a much higher strength appear right before the circle starts to shrink. 2) In a light ship or fast frigate, distance can and often is a integral part of your defensive strategy. The circle of death limits the effectiveness of that tactic, discourages such ships in the battles. 3) I don't use 1st or 2nd rates because I cannot afford to replace them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 52 minutes ago, Wraith said: Legends, which obviously failed Heh, I've explained this elsewhere... 52 minutes ago, Wraith said: The removal of Outlaw mechanics was also a mistake, driven purely by people like @King of Crowns Giggles. We had perfect outlaw mechanics at one point. @Kaosruined that. He didn't use any "exploits", Rakers don't do that. You don't even need exploits. People don't like being killed over and over and over... All this long before King of Ganks was even a twinkle in his father's eye. Isn't this cute, tho... We don't agree but we agree. 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I'm going to continue to do the PVP zone missions on my terms. I try to get a group together to join me, but failing that I will sail out in an AI capped 5th rate and search for a battle. Sometimes I may get a 1v1 (awesome) sometimes it may be a 2v1 (exciting), sometimes I may find a battle that moderately favours one side, so I and join the weaker side (great too). I'm not taking anything larger than a 4th rate out, just don't see the point. But when I am in the zone and I start seeing nothing but a large, one sided gank fleet racking up kill after kill after kill because there is no opposing fleet in the zone, I will collect what bounty I have and move on to something else. I play for a challenge, that's why I will take a Trade Brig out in the shallows sometimes to fight against a heavy rattle. GB has so few active PVP'ers, and gank is the rule du jour after around 10pm CDT. I consider myself a decent PVP player, but there is a tipping point where a challenge becomes a no holds barred desperate challenge (which I enjoy) and then finally flops all the way over to "frack me, really?" Kinda burned out on the 3rd, so carry on WO and Blanc, you guys are masters of the PVP zone during that time, you have driven away all enemies, not out of skill, but of boredom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palatinose Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 7 hours ago, Wraith said: The rewards are fame and recognition, right? I'd balance out the need to level, buy and upgrade ships, mods, and the bits and bobs necessary to create the ultimate in small/large/duel battle ships by that small level of interaction with the open world, crafting, trading, and grinding. Wraith. Since when do people play for fame and recognition? I think the same way but it's so damn idealistic and far from reality that you should know. Need to lvl is damn low. I leveled an Essex in three days in pvp to 1k XP to go till the fifth slot. Overall ten battles. Teak Wo; navy hull, basic hull, basic carpentry tools, medium guns. I agree on the mods though, generally speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Palatinose said: Wraith. Since when do people play for fame and recognition? I can think of several people who can not help but post every single victory in global. A couple of them, I suspect in a desperate attempt to try and stay relevant as they fade into the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsman Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said: fade into the background Kinda hard for anyone to fade into the background with 300 average serverpop, out of which 30 are actual PvP players but I get your point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palatinose Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Why is fleet practice not more offen done then? The lobby-based mechanics have the problems that people don't give their very best as they don't lose something. Therefore fame and glory can't be given as reward imo. No need to give rewards for these fights anyhow though. But I just recognize that I obviously don't get your point. My opinion on small/large/duel rooms: they could be there and it would be fine to test things, but they're not much fun as there are just no rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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