Patch 13: Variability in port battles, epic events, swivel guns

[CoolBreeze66]

What happened to the crafting levels?  I elevated my shipyard to level 2 but I do not see the ships listed in the craft menu that I would normally see listed there that I might craft.  Have those ships now been shifted to level 3, I might have missed something but I don't think so.  For example, I know the Endymion requires a permit, got that, but how can I see the requirements to build in the craft menu.  There appears no note is required just a permit for an Endymion.  Please Advise!

[admin]

Just now, Graf Bernadotte said:

Why? If a nation hopes that the enemy shows up only with 3 Santis than 25 lynxes would be the proper answer. Bad for them, if they miscalculated the enemies steps.

Well . Gangut battle was won exactly like this - heavy swedish ships were overwhelmed by small russian vessels in low wind. But we don't know if it is fun to fight 25 lynxes in 3 santis

 

[CoolBreeze66]

Hey admin can you comment on my note about crafting.  Thanks

[admin]

30 minutes ago, CoolBreeze66 said:

What happened to the crafting levels?  I elevated my shipyard to level 2 but I do not see the ships listed in the craft menu that I would normally see listed there that I might craft.  Have those ships now been shifted to level 3, I might have missed something but I don't think so.  For example, I know the Endymion requires a permit, got that, but how can I see the requirements to build in the craft menu.  There appears no note is required just a permit for an Endymion.  Please Advise!

no changes were done to crafting or crafting levels

[randommexi]

based on my brief research, it looks like if you want to have diversity in port battles, i'd put hard limits of each ship class.  however, people would just take the best ship of each class.  add a BR limit too and rebalance the BR's of ships and you might have what you're looking for.

otherwise, people will find the "best" way to maximize fleets for port battles and stick with it.  

[George Washington]

Quick Patch review:

Loot is right on the money, need more variety though. (Mods, paints, junk, pve chest).

Fire - little too much. I fought 1 fleet of 3rd rate with , Essex and Belle P and had 6 fires. Make it 4. 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by George Washington

[Corona Lisa]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Lets discuss the limits - for example not letting cutters and lynxes into deep water port battles.

Ban all shallow ships except mortar brig. If you only remove Cutter and Lynx people will take Pickle, Privateer, Snow, RSH or something else as fill-ship with no intention or chance to fight.

 

Need more PBs to test but I think the main problem would still persist: You need numbers to cap circles and if you start the battle with less numbers you are at a disadvantage. Why not limit the max amount of ships allowed in some PBs?

Edited October 31, 2017 by Jon Snow lets go

[George Washington]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Well . Gangut battle was won exactly like this - heavy swedish ships were overwhelmed by small russian vessels in low wind. But we don't know if it is fun to fight 25 lynxes in 3 santis

 

It's not trust me. 

[qw569😳]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Lets discuss the limits - for example not letting cutters and lynxes into deep water port battles.

no limits. all ships are allowed

except shallow water ports. In this type of ports aloowed to enter only 6-7 rates

[George Washington]

Easy fix, all happy. 

8500 - No shallow ships (Cerberus --> Santi)

6800 - No shallow Ships  (Cerberus --> Santi)

5100 - No shallow ships  (Cerberus --> Santi)

3400 - Shallow ships allowed (Begin with Brig)

1700 - Shallow ships allowed (Begin with Brig)

Lynx and Pickle should be starting ships and must be restricted from PBs. Mark them as New player ships. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by George Washington

[pietjenoob]

4 hours ago, admin said:

don't get attached to the numbers.
Large ports (like cartagena or san juan or santo domingo) can have their numbers increased during any maintenance.
Lets discuss the limits - for example not letting cutters and lynxes into deep water port battles. 

Cartagena/Havana/San Juan/Santo domingo could definitely be increased. Some shallow ports decreased. Lets talk specifics. 

Historical note.
Trafalgar (lineships vs lineships) is still possible during screening.
But remember that Trafalgar had only 3 1st rates on the british side and 4 on the French/Spanish side. 7th first rates participated in trafalgar.

 

ps. can someone please calculate approximate BR for trafalgar if possible?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_at_the_Battle_of_Trafalgar

 

Just did a little doing BR on the British side was roughly 12195 over 33 ships that makes of an average of 370 br per ship say with a margin between 11.000 and 13.000, still doing the French Spanish side but that has to wait till tomorrow.

Prepatch the max amount of BR that was possible is between 15.000-16.250 BR if the fleet is a full 25 1st

for the people who are interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iDlQipPjTazJlEI4FUi-lqpsLmDWigcjOGjNsYdYFWI/edit?usp=sharing

Edited October 31, 2017 by pietjenoob

[Christendom]

2 hours ago, admin said:

don't get attached to the numbers.
Large ports (like cartagena or san juan or santo domingo) can have their numbers increased during any maintenance.
Lets discuss the limits - for example not letting cutters and lynxes into deep water port battles. 

Cartagena/Havana/San Juan/Santo domingo could definitely be increased. Some shallow ports decreased. Lets talk specifics. 

Historical note.
Trafalgar (lineships vs lineships) is still possible during screening.
But remember that Trafalgar had only 3 1st rates on the british side and 4 on the French/Spanish side. 7th first rates participated in trafalgar.

 

ps. can someone please calculate approximate BR for trafalgar if possible?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_at_the_Battle_of_Trafalgar

 

This is the right way to go.  Less lineship fights. More mixed fleets.  

[Malachy]

10 hours ago, rediii said:

No fc can command a fleet effectivly that is composed trough 4 different type of ships.

You will see 2 different shiptypes soon commanded with a 3rd for sepcial tasks. thats it.

This is bull crap perpetuated by the intellectually lazy. All you need to do is split the different types of ships into groups and put them in their own voice channel. The port battle leader and group leaders should only be in the main channel. Ventrilo works really good for this. We used it in potbs for years to command multi ship type port battles and my clan was the dominant clan on three different servers because of this. Laziness is no excuse for tactical inflexibility. The Russians recently lost a huge port battle force in the os to a mixed group of nations, ship types and groups. In fact, each group worked independantly because half the pirates there hated each other, and the Danes and swedes weren't too friendly with each other or pirates either. So stop being lazy and learn how to do it.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Malachy

[Hethwill]

If it works in Arma, if it works in any tactical sim it works in NA. Well said Malachy.

[Salty Dog.]

3 hours ago, CoolBreeze66 said:

What happened to the crafting levels?  I elevated my shipyard to level 2 but I do not see the ships listed in the craft menu that I would normally see listed there that I might craft.  Have those ships now been shifted to level 3, I might have missed something but I don't think so.  For example, I know the Endymion requires a permit, got that, but how can I see the requirements to build in the craft menu.  There appears no note is required just a permit for an Endymion.  Please Advise!

perhaps you need to learn about crafting? 

You only get blueprints up to the connie automatically.  Past the connie (and several ships below the connie) you need to purchase the blueprints before they show up in the menu.

[CoolBreeze66]

 

Well thanks salty, btw I know how to craft.  I traded 20 cm's for the Endymion Permit, I did that before I wrote the first note. But nowhere do you find the ability to actually see what is required for the Endymion even when you have the permit.  There is no blueprint for the Endymion listed anywhere, go ahead, go look.

Any other ideas?

[Fargo]

If anyone would care, you could argue those changes down with simple arguments referring to what this game was supposed to be about. Player freedom, realism/plausibility and Immersion. PBs kinda turned into fair matchmaking, totally contradicting with that. Thats not a opinion, thats how NA was defined once and still is.

If you allow everyone to be rich of everything within 2 weeks, you have to face the concequences of 1st rate only battles. If you refuse to balance anything from woods to upgrades, if broken mechanics make speed as a stat insanely powerful, you must not wonder why there is no diversity. If you allow everyone to avoid battles to 100%, you must not wonder why OW PvP isnt working. Such a game is simply not working this way. Gameplay has to be meaningful. Something has to provide long time motivation. OW must not become a fair matchmaking system. Giving everything to anyone and then restricting the use of stuff is contraproductive in multiple ways.

Restrictions like this are not only not going to work as easily as promoted, it contradicts every single aspect of what makes people enjoy a sandbox game. Good luck with balancing of BR. In theory 3-4 frigates equal one lineship. In reality they do 0 damage cause they cant penetrate, one frigate is able to rake down a single lineship. 0 penetration vs. raking has to be balanced for different battle sizes. Circle capturing has to be balanced for 10 ships vs 25 ships. Mortar brigs and fireships. Etc.

And realise how such changes are made. People voted for this, but look how this poll was done. Zero information in the OP what this change means, what possible cons or problems are, what this requires. No previous discussion. No details, people realise now that circle capturing isnt ment to be BR base, whats obviously not working unless circles as a victory condition get nerved. Not like this.

[Hethwill]

All is possible. Reckon Malachy was stating that is not impossible or anything close to being a prohibitive choice to make the mixed order of battle unfeasible, and that is worth attention and not dismissed as lunacy.

[Hodo]

12 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

How long is your load time? This is something i've brought up before. Invisibility timer only matter if its 30 seconds in effect, not on paper. I have a pretty decent PC and it still takes me like 10-15 seconds to load in the OW, this cuts my invisibility timer by 10-15 seconds. 

I have an older computer and I still have 30sec ov inisibility.  But my game is installed on a SSD, all my pvp oriented games are.  

[CatSwift]

Just now, rediii said:

Most of the people saying yes to the new portbattles probably dont even do portbattles]

Seems like an obvious good thing to me; the developer's goal should be to get more people involved in PBs and not just the select few.  If promoting mixed fleets does that then great.

[z4ys]

36 minutes ago, rediii said:

Most of the people saying yes to the new portbattles probably dont even do portbattles

 

Maybe they would like but cant because of numbers?

I mean whats the problem to have 2 grps instead of one? You can have 3*10 = 30 pb per day. Should be enough even for big clans to engage all of your members.

Edited October 31, 2017 by z4ys

[CoolBreeze66]

Hey Salty I figured it out, but thanks for your help.  I mean that really.  Thanks it has to do with crafting level.  My Bad!

[admin]

51 minutes ago, rediii said:

Most of the people saying yes to the new portbattles probably dont even do portbattles

 

we know new direction is better because clans control who enters the battle. We just need to tune the city limits allowing those who want large PBs to have large battles and those who want to have small battles to have small battles. it is now totally possible and can be done and tuned on the fly. we just need to discuss limits and ranges.. 
 

[Hodo]

15 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

And others are a little tired seeing the same ships and players over and over.

Port battles is the end game, but it should not become the game of an elite.

 

After my first half dozen PBs I quit going.  They were all the same, didnt matter what type, always take the biggest in that class. 

Shallows

-Rattlesnake Heavy/Mercury

4th Rate

-Wasa/Agamemnon

Line

-Victory/L'Ocean

 

All of them built the same, Live Oak- White Oak.

Gets pretty boring.

[Cecil Selous]

13 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

How long is your load time? This is something i've brought up before. Invisibility timer only matter if its 30 seconds in effect, not on paper. I have a pretty decent PC and it still takes me like 10-15 seconds to load in the OW, this cuts my invisibility timer by 10-15 seconds. 

Thx Tommy, this perfectly explains that and I belive it because of my shitty old laptop :D. But isn't this somehow not how it is should work. It also perfectly fits into my problems with the very first battle of the day. My ship is already in and I am getting shot at before I am even done loading the instance. The solution to that is always attacking a bot first.

But losing half of my invisible and no attack timer because I need to load the OW longer isn't really understandable nor can I accept that. If I am not done loading, than my ship shouldn't be in the OW. If it is to prevent logging out during the loading screen to escape a gank or other players, there is the option to always spawn a ship after a given time, like max 2 minutes (I don't think anybody loads this long). But I shouldn't be in a disadvantage because my loading time is 15-30 seconds longer than normal.