My terrible experience as a newb

[Hodo]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

But wouldnt this only serve to funnel more people to the larger nations to avoid being on the front line of a small nation?

Yes and no.  

Players who are a bit hardcore, may choose to go to the underdog nation.  But player not looking for such a struggle may choose the larger more established nation.  

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Archaos said:

But wouldnt this only serve to funnel more people to the larger nations to avoid being on the front line of a small nation?

Yes but its the lesser of two evils. The alternative is providing a significant boost to grinding gold and xp for underpopped nations and newbies. 

[Slamz]

OP needs to branch out and learn PvP. I am not being condescending, just stating the direction his gameplay needs to take if he wants to enjoy this game. He chose to play on a PvP server and amassed a lot of money but did not seem to take up an interest in the actual focus of the server: PvP.

1) Acquire a fir/fir Surprise*. This is not the best ship but it's a great place to start. Wood types can be argued about, some will argue over the ship selection but you can't go too wrong as a new PvP captain by selecting a fir frame, fir plank Surprise.

* - if you can't crew or build a Surprise, do all of this with a Snow instead.

2) Put the +speed figurehead from the Admiralty store on it. If you have a second speed permanent (copper plating, bovenwinds, etc) then put that on there too but if not it should be fine.

3) Put long cannons all around. Lots of arguments here again but "can't go too wrong" with longs for introduction to PvP.

4) Bring about 50 hull repairs, 50 rig repairs and 100 rum. (About half this for a Snow should be fine.)

5) Go hunting.

Look for enemies to tag. Learn the tagging rules. If enemy gank squads come for you, learn how to "give them a bad tag" and escape in combat. Learn about "points of sail" and how a slower ship can sometimes outrun a faster ship by choosing the correct wind angle. Be amazed at how good the Surprise is at killing the sails of pursuing ships by firing chain shot from the 4 rear guns.

If you can find another person or two to group with, so much the better. Solo PvP is the hard road but plenty of people do it. Just means there's nobody to help you shake a tail.

This should open a whole new facet of the game to you and you'll realize you don't need to spend a ton of time and money to have fun. This is the "PvP" server so hopefully this is something you can enjoy, and you just need the right way to start.

Remember there's no shame in running from a bad fight. But give things a shot.

When a fight looks bad and a straight run isn't working, try the old Boom & Zoom:

1) Charge the enemy.
2) Chainshot his sails with a broadside as you pass him. Ideally, pass him nose to nose in a good direction for you to run in.
3) Repair your sails (if damaged) as you do the "boom".
4) Rather than turn and keep fighting, just keep running. By the time he turns around, you have a lead on him.

This works quite a lot of the time, even on veterans. The heavier their ship, the more likely this is to work. Extra true when you're in a surprise with the 4 butt guns firing laser accurate chain shot.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Slamz

[Prater]

3 hours ago, Intrepido said:

This is one of the consequences of hardcore mechanics that were implemented in the last big patch.

This was happening long before the last patch.  Every so often since EA in 2016 I've posted about how the new player experience needs to be revamped and protections put in place.  Whether it is stopping mission sniping, adding more safe regions for econ (to stop 1 porting), and protecting new players.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Prater

[Rychu Karas]

maybe the game should give a safe protection, not for a young character but for accounts with less than 200h on the account.

[Skully]

I tried to boot up the discussion some time ago, but couldn't convince anyone I was just a low-level farmer. 

 

[CaptVonGunn]

4 hours ago, Captain Lust said:

This game is bleeding new players like no other game i have ever played... The first mistake you made was to stay at your nations capital to build up... you should have moved to some more quiet zone. They had the rookie zone in the bahama region with rookie capitals at one point but scratched that for whatever reason.

They scratched it because it removed a huge plying area from 3 nations.. They need a noob area separate form the rest of the map where they can get teh grove and not worry about teh CArebear GAnkers (what else do you call people that gank low ranked players in junk ships with a 5 ship Frigate attack)..

[Barbancourt]

Sandy, unfortunately you have joined us at a difficult time for a new player.  France always had the safest home waters since the Wipe, until the last few days.  A month or two ago you would have had space to get up to speed at your preferred pace.  Right now there are few new players, which will doubtless leave you feeling alone (particularly in non-peak hours), and most of the experienced players are concentrated on a major offensive to bring PvP back to the "PvP Server".  This leaves you kind of being the odd man out at Fort Royal, and having to ask for and wait for others to escort you to do basic things in the middle of a war zone is certainly not a very efficient way to spend your game time. 

Keep in mind that nation chat always includes enemy alts and agents.  When I checked into the game this morning before work it was enemy alts and agents that I saw encouraging you to leave France.  That is a major part of their war strategy - to make players leave France until Fort Royal is deserted. 

Whether you can find space to play your game in the current situation, I can't predict.  I have not figured out exactly how I'm going to proceed myself, since I rarely play during peak hours.  We are trying something new to fix the lack of PvP game on the server and give the nation a purpose other than hauling coffee and furniture, and it will be an adventure one way or another.

It is good that you took the initiative to start this conversation.  I'm sure many others have been in the same situation in other nations. 

 

[HachiRoku]

3 hours ago, raudy5 said:

Something I hadn't considered, this is a great post. 

if you are willing to accept help ingame I would help you out with gold and ships. Im a pirate so we would need to meet somewhere. 

[Tac]

43 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

They scratched it because it removed a huge plying area from 3 nations.. They need a noob area separate form the rest of the map where they can get teh grove and not worry about teh CArebear GAnkers (what else do you call people that gank low ranked players in junk ships with a 5 ship Frigate attack)..

5 frigs coming to my capital would be bliss because they cant run they have to fight and that is a risk reward that i can quantify but as it is now you mostly only waste your time chasing and if you can engage and sink or cap one or two fir fir surprises, the time invested isn't worth the effort.

 

[Batman]

Do not worry, apparently the new RvR mechanis will magically fix the game for new players.

[Prater]

8 minutes ago, Batman said:

Do not worry, apparently the new RvR mechanis will magically fix the game for new players.

They never said it will magically fix the game for new players.  They said it will stop nations from getting one ported and forcing large amount of players (mostly new players) to quit.  On this point I do agree and see the point of what they are trying to accomplish.  I think it could be done in ways that preserve nations though.  A lot of people have asked for the ability to have civil wars and they now will get it.  

Edited August 3, 2017 by Prater

[Jack Spencer]

I have often wondered why the playing field couldn't be leveled by some formula based on BR or BS weight.

A Trader Brig is listed at a BR of 10, but loaded with 16 - 6pdrs should have a BR of 50 or a BS weight of 48pd. A trader should probably always sail with an escort. So if a cheap Pickle were in Fleet, the total BR would be 90 or a BS weight of 84pd.

The total BR/BS of attacking ship/ships could not exceeding the Trader/Escort BR/BS. Once combat begins, no other ships would be allowed to participate. The Escort could distract the attackers, allowing the trader to either participate or escape. Once the battle is over, the trader would be immune to another attack for X time.

There may be a different formula needed for combat ship vs combat ship, such as limiting the attacking ships to X (1.5 to 2 ??) times the attacked ship/ships BR/BS.  

This scenario would only apply to OW combat, not to Port Battles or RvR.   

[CaptVonGunn]

46 minutes ago, Tac said:

5 frigs coming to my capital would be bliss because they cant run they have to fight and that is a risk reward that i can quantify but as it is now you mostly only waste your time chasing and if you can engage and sink or cap one or two fir fir surprises, the time invested isn't worth the effort.

 

You know a Surprise is a FRigate to right?:)

[BallsOfSteel]

Come to Denmark we will look after you. The French "PVP" is the single reason they are under assault and you are collateral damage.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, 38gbear61 said:

I have often wondered why the playing field couldn't be leveled by some formula based on BR or BS weight.

A Trader Brig is listed at a BR of 10, but loaded with 16 - 6pdrs should have a BR of 50 or a BS weight of 48pd. A trader should probably always sail with an escort. So if a cheap Pickle were in Fleet, the total BR would be 90 or a BS weight of 84pd.

The total BR/BS of attacking ship/ships could not exceeding the Trader/Escort BR/BS. Once combat begins, no other ships would be allowed to participate. The Escort could distract the attackers, allowing the trader to either participate or escape. Once the battle is over, the trader would be immune to another attack for X time.

There may be a different formula needed for combat ship vs combat ship, such as limiting the attacking ships to X (1.5 to 2 ??) times the attacked ship/ships BR/BS.  

This scenario would only apply to OW combat, not to Port Battles or RvR.   

This idea is bad everytime you mention it. Hunting traders is a play style. Limiting what BRs can engage is just bad game design. 

Sail some damn escorts in your fleets. Plan careful trade routes. Always have an escape plan. Only lazy and super unlucky traders end up dead. 

[Macjimm]

11 hours ago, Prater said:

We already tried this in 2015.  It resulted in people going to the capitals for the sake of having massive battles against ai 1st rates and leveling up and getting a bunch of gold quickly.  Other mechanics are different now, so maybe the results will be different, but back then it didn't help out the situation but made it worse because more and more would flock to enemy capitals to grind ai.  It might solve the current issue, but it could very well introduce a bigger problem like it did back then.

Thanks for the reminder Prater.    I thought that I remembered a time when the friendly AI would help me.  This response to my comment "Seems like the friendly NPC fleets that are close by should jump in and help me if I get attacked." is helpful.  No point jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.  Too bad we can't work out some solution to limit players in specific areas.  I've played elite dangerous and in some areas the NPCs will quickly destroy your ship if you commit a crime.  I suppose NA is has much different limitations than ED.  I feel a little silly comparing the two , especially when I have such a deep ignorance about the game mechanics.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Macjimm
spelingk

[Prater]

10 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Thanks for the reminder Prater.    I thought that I remembered a time when the friendly AI would help me.  This response to my comment "Seems like the friendly NPC fleets that are close by should jump in and help me if I get attacked." is helpful.  No point jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.  Too bad we can work out some solution to limit players in specific areas.  I've played elite dangerous and in some areas the NPCs will quickly destroy your ship if you commit a crime.  I suppose NA is has much different limitations than ED.  I feel a little silly comparing the two , especially when I have such a deep ignorance about the game mechanics.

Well, I guess one thing that was not tried was extremely powerful ai who cheat.  Make them godlike and people won't be able to farm them.  In Eve, if you attack in High Sec, you have a few seconds before the interstellar police force warps in and you have 20 ships shooting you.  People also didn't like AI interfering in pvp.  But, if the battle is close to a regional/capital port, the defender is Master and Commander or lower, the defender is under 1 month old, and the attacker is over 1 month old, maybe a superpowerful coastal defense force needs to come in and stop the seal club.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Prater

[Slamz]

4 hours ago, 38gbear61 said:

The total BR/BS of attacking ship/ships could not exceeding the Trader/Escort BR/BS.

BR limits are one of those things that sounds very simple and straightforward but when you're out on the open sea trying to do math with your guildmates to figure out who all can go in and who can't, it mostly just sucks.

[Lonar]

5 hours ago, Tac said:

5 frigs coming to my capital would be bliss because they cant run they have to fight and that is a risk reward that i can quantify but as it is now you mostly only waste your time chasing and if you can engage and sink or cap one or two fir fir surprises, the time invested isn't worth the effort.

 

Come to Sweden for a testweek and tell me how great that works out and how wonderful the mechanics prevents that.

This is not just a small nation problem even sweden on eu looses player because of it.

[Slim McSauce]

Blame RVR. EVERYONE is getting capital camped because taking ports is so inanely easy. Doesn't matter if its next to the capital or not, its the same single 25v25 battle that decides an entire region

Edited August 4, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Skully]

6 hours ago, Prater said:

They never said it will magically fix the game for new players.  They said it will stop nations from getting one ported and forcing large amount of players (mostly new players) to quit.  On this point I do agree and see the point of what they are trying to accomplish.  I think it could be done in ways that preserve nations though.  A lot of people have asked for the ability to have civil wars and they now will get it.  

The way it currently looks Charters can still one-port a capital.

Hence I'm leaning back to the notion that a non viable Nation needs to fall.

 

[mikawa]

13 hours ago, Liquicity said:

What happened to the idea of rookie zones? Other games give starters immunity for the first steps, but as this is not possible here due to alts, other ways have to be found.
Why exactly were the Bahamas Rookie zones erased? Right now they're not serving anything (on EU at least), they got #Swerged, in a ScrambleForPiratePorts action.

Why not make one big neutral rookie zone where you can only do PvE. All new players meet there. If you want to have shipyard / outpost /buildings you must join a nation. So you have a bit time to look, sail in your basic cutter out to all capitals and then decide to join a nation.

[Capitalism Kills]

18 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Sandy, unfortunately you have joined us at a difficult time for a new player.  France always had the safest home waters since the Wipe, until the last few days.  A month or two ago you would have had space to get up to speed at your preferred pace.  Right now there are few new players, which will doubtless leave you feeling alone (particularly in non-peak hours), and most of the experienced players are concentrated on a major offensive to bring PvP back to the "PvP Server".  This leaves you kind of being the odd man out at Fort Royal, and having to ask for and wait for others to escort you to do basic things in the middle of a war zone is certainly not a very efficient way to spend your game time. 

Keep in mind that nation chat always includes enemy alts and agents.  When I checked into the game this morning before work it was enemy alts and agents that I saw encouraging you to leave France.  That is a major part of their war strategy - to make players leave France until Fort Royal is deserted. 

Whether you can find space to play your game in the current situation, I can't predict.  I have not figured out exactly how I'm going to proceed myself, since I rarely play during peak hours.  We are trying something new to fix the lack of PvP game on the server and give the nation a purpose other than hauling coffee and furniture, and it will be an adventure one way or another.

It is good that you took the initiative to start this conversation.  I'm sure many others have been in the same situation in other nations. 

 

Thank you for being so helpdul and constructive, i appreciate it. For now I am grinding marks and xp and sneaking a highly risky, very close trade route from time to time, but now FR is so overrun we are down to single digit home ports near port royal, so crafting is completely stalled because of the lack of availibility to produce resources. I'd hike and go get them, but that's as risky as a trade route of any substance, and that has cost me dozens of traders brigs. 

[Capitalism Kills]

18 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

if you are willing to accept help ingame I would help you out with gold and ships. Im a pirate so we would need to meet somewhere. 

I can't tell you how much i appreciate the offer. i'm doing ok, so I think I'll just soldier on. Offering is as good as giving, you're really a stand-up guy. I'd expect nothing less from a fellow kerbal enthusiast. Man, setting up a sustaining space station on all planets was a dream I alwyas had, and partially realized.