Patch 10.4 Conquest changes, Battle Groups, Wapen von Hamburg (III)

[Ink]

25 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I too like the victory system, but I also agree with you where this could cause a lot of problems with the way it's worded.

so again, I want clarification from the admin - if it's the case where all nations get victory marks based on what they own that would be nice - if it's the case where the nation with the most is the only one to get victory marks then wow, Diplomacy just got interesting

Only the Nation who has won get VIctory marks, not others.

 

Contract bug should be fixed tommrow.

[Teutonic]

thank you

[Captain MiniMe]

Just now, Louis Garneray said:

If the winning nation is the nation with the most ports (and the only one getting anything) then for PVP global it's gonna be GB for some times until everybody else can get a piece of their real estate...

Same on PVP EU, since the Spanish can no longer hold them back. The Brits are the only ones close enough to take the free Spanish ports. 
This is the issue with the new system, it widens the gap between rich and poor even more. As it is now, the victory point system is broken and will not work.
So I'm looking forward to trying it and I believe it can be awesome, except not as it is now.

Small clarification though, the winning nation is not necessarly the nation with most ports. It's the nation with most conquest points. Seeing as you lose points for losing a port faster than you gain for winning ports it can turn real quick and brings a tactical aspect for "important" ports that give 3 points instead of 1.
 

[Ruthless4u]

Was hoping to see gold/XP for damage done brought back

[Xyster]

3 minutes ago, Ink said:

Only the Nation who has won get VIctory marks, not others.

Correction - Only the Nation who has won get Victory marks, and those with alts in that nation.

[Aphilas]

Great patch, 2 bad apples in it:

1. Victory points. You make 3 marks, then understand that variety of marks is too hard for you to properly implement so over a month remove 2 of them. But introduce a new one. What the F? To top it off, you give it to victorious nation - making strong even stronger. I mean - Santisimas vs Victories? Heavy rattles vs mercuries? Are you being serious? Might as well forget RVR.

2. Constantly changing up amount of marks and value of marks. You did it with PVP mark covertion once already. Same now with conquest marks. Yesterday conquest mark was 100k-120k. Combat mark around 4k. 30-40 times difference. Today it's 10... Blueprint and permit cost changing is just hello kittying people in the ass. I am a lucky one - I have 4 Bellona permits, but I am still outraged by constant changes and moreso by nonsense changes. Like making conie 150 instead of 75. In solo 4th rate mission (yeah yeah, it's boring af, but doing fleets solo just consumes ridiculous amounts of time and repairs) you get 5-6 marks. So, 30 missions to get the same rank ship? Stop making us grind more and more. PvE is boring.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Aphilas

[[HRE] Lanfire]

20 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

lol If you make the wappen I'll lit the Bellona myself

After i got 2 Victory-Marks, you can be sure, i will build the Wappen as fast as possible.

Resources are Ready ;-)

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Ink said:

Only the Nation who has won get VIctory marks, not others.

 

Contract bug should be fixed tommrow.

So in time it will be the same nation that wins every time? - poor mechanic imo

[Pablo Montoya]

 

 Hi good afternoon,

 

Please, devs, @Ink, could you explain how this victory system will affect pve server? as in pve server there are no port nation changes.

At the moment the change rate are madness. 1 victory mark for 250 combat mark? this morning i was able to buy a L'ocean permit, now i barely can dream of ... 6 victory mark, aka 1500 combat marks ...(at 10 per combat so it is 150 missions or more...)

 

are the conversion rates broken? are, as khaak said, the costs changed between permits and bps?

Thanks and regards

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Pablo Montoya
adding ink to the question

[z4ys]

18 minutes ago, Ink said:

Only the Nation who has won get VIctory marks, not others.

 

Contract bug should be fixed tommrow.

I wasnt able to gte into a nation port so far. But what marks are needed for the permits? victory marks or combat marks? If permits can only be obtained through victory marks how spain will ever get competitive on global?

Edited July 17, 2017 by z4ys

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, [HRE] Lanfire said:

After i got 2 Victory-Marks, you can be sure, i will build the Wappen as fast as possible.

Resources are Ready ;-)

Let's see who wins the map first.. my money is on the largest faction being perpetually the brits.. Shitty mechanic that will ensure that everyone rolls for the winning side.

[mikawa]

16 minutes ago, Ruthless4u said:

Was hoping to see gold/XP for damage done brought back

me too. :-(

[Jones el Tuerto]

56 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

you dont, but your enemies will - been just lucky it never happened to you, its not quite the most enjoyable thing to fight an inteleporting fleet blocking your way out

That's true well we'll see how it works out

[mikawa]

48 minutes ago, Richart Sievers said:

ohhh and the battle speed is still capped  to 15 knots another broken mechanic not repaired

 

The whole 15 knot thing came only up from repairing more than once during a battle. Old system had more tactical depth - now its just to repair as soon as possible run run run fight then repair again run run run ... boring

[sveno]

Very nice patch as long it comes to fixes, leaderboards and the reappearance of ships.

Blueprint/Permit Costs
But the Victory/Aga BP you can have for combat marks and Wappen/Niagara cost victory marks?!?
Kinda no reason, the best 4th rate BP is almost free, while most guys will not be able to get BP's for Wappen, Niagara etc?
It looks awful arbitrarily limiting - we really like to test the Wappen properly.

Victory Mark System
I am worried about this (again) only giving reaps to the victor.
What point is there to play as US, FR or NL right now?

Small nations doing excellent will just get nothing, no chance ever getting any victory points.

As the devs have the data: just watch what happens with a country close to a win; its gonna receive a lot of alt accounts.
This is also kinda FUBAR the play for us (few) single accounters...

I hated all the work involved to get every clan of Sweden a fair amount of CM with the old system.
But at least that system was connected to the work done and also small countries had a motivation to do RvR.

A lot of edits - sorry about that.
 

Edited July 17, 2017 by sveno

[Blackjack McGee]

First PVP marks created a system af haves and haves not.

Second, Conquest marks created a system of haves and haves nots.

Now, Victory marks does the same thing.

Understand the goal but how many times do we have to do this.  Shipbuilding should not be limited to some artificial game, nation based, mechanic.  Let all players have access to all the ships.

Tie the marks to upgrades but please make ships available to everyone.

[z4ys]

The mark stuff is getting worse and worse with every update

[Hodo]

Now add a no battle join timer for port battles from any battle.

Unlike other OW battles, which you cant join for like 90sec after leaving a battle, you can join a Port Battle any time after leaving.  

 

While I like seeing the Heavy Rattlesnake... what ever happened to the Rattlesnake?  

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Hodo

[Guest]

QUESTION - How are the points on the pvp leaderboard calculated? It doesn't look to me like BR.

[Captain MiniMe]

19 minutes ago, rediii said:

Same happens with every patch

the ones complaining don't even try

the ones not complaining just do it and adapt.

 

git gud guys.

How can you even say that? I hope you where sarcastic (which isn't really clear in written messages).

It's simple logic:

If you don't have PB ships, you can't take a port, at best you can defend one. No mater how good a player you are.
Without wining a port you can't properly climb the ladder to reach first place.
Without making first place as a nation (1 chance every 7 days), you can't get proper PB ships.
If you don't have PB ships, you can't take a port, at best you can defend one. No mater how good a player you are.

See the loop here? So unles small nations focus on 4th rate portbattles which ships are (nearly) available to all, gitting gud won't cut it.

This is not a system that rewards good players, this is a system that rewards numbers.
So I wish you as a Swedish nation player the best of luck, whilst the Brits and Danish keep ahead. 
I'm not even mentioning the Dutch nation on 7th place XD
Best you can do is take your gud skills to punch the French in the face take their ports and hope the Danish leave your ports alone.
Even then, I bet you 5 second rate ships the Swedish will never climb beyond 3d place on the ranking in the current system with the current player bases.

Oh, or you could swap your alt account to the current winning nation for a couple of weeks, that ways you can get victory marks and funnel those to your nation.
But ofcourse, this is not what is intended by the Devs, as we all know, playing alts is illegal and bad. Frowned upon very much and considered game breaking!
That being said, if you want accurate predictions on which nation to switch ones non existing alt to, I'll give you my professional prediciton in exchange for 1 victory mark on a monthly basis. If my prediction was wrong, I'll gladly pay 100 combat marks per week for the missed Victory mark. Get your tips whilst their hot!!
 

 

[Hodo]

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Yeah, the instant PB join after battle exit, combined with the new battle group  mechanics has basically made screening irrelevant. Catering to the minority much?

Given they haven't fixed the stupid speed meta the Heavy Rattler is just a better version of the Rattler. I haven't run all the calculations but with the speed perks it should be possible to make a Heavy Ratt essentially a more survivable Rattler with almost identical sailing profile. It will be my ship of choice assuming we can scrounge up some Victory marks <sigh>.  It still escapes me why they are tying content to RvR or PvP success.  RvR and PvP should *be* the ultimate content, not gateways to content.  PVP and RvR should be facilitated by other content (ships, missions, and WHERE ARE OUR RAIDS?!).

I guess I will be sailing my Privateer and Lynx more often... Still no reason to switch to something else.  

 

[Prater]

5 hours ago, Eleven said:

Still 15kn-meta... sad... some other changes are pretty good!

My guess is the 15kn meta will take a considerable time to fix/balance.  Hopefully after the move to unity 5.

[Captain MiniMe]

5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Yeah, the instant PB join after battle exit, combined with the new battle group  mechanics has basically made screening irrelevant. Catering to the minority much?

 

If the screened fleet can flee the screen battle and join the PB, you're doing the screening wrong and the ones fleeing should not be punished so a timer to prevent PB joining is not advised.
Screening has not become irrelevant, on the contrary (as someone stated before) it has become unballanced, catering majority much!
Try entering a PB with your 4th rates when the enemy is screening with 1st rates (this is clearly to the advantage of big player bases nations). 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Captain MiniMe

[Rouleur]

CMs and VMs:

Getting rid of Conquest Marks (CMs) is a good thing - it created all sorts of perverse incentives and toxic play. The Victory Marks (VMs) may become a mini but lesser version of the same. It feels like an incentive to seal club weak nations which is not something I want to do or be the victim of. Previously you could build no 3rd to 1st rates without CMs, now you can't build everyone's favourite 3rd rate (Bellona) and much more importantly the shallow ship of choice - the Heavy Rattlesnake. We will see how it works out in a few weeks.

Cloaking and warp speed:

Helping the prospects of avoiding the revenge fleet is only reasonable when the invisibility gank is also nerfed - the reverse is the case. Now you can hyper cruise away invisible, then hyper cruise up to your next victim whilst invisible, park alongside and gank/join a visible bait ship. Any system that allows an invisible enhanced speed approach is clearly unfair on the victim. The current practice of parking in an instance until the alt spy spots for next victim to which you can now hyper cruise is now much much worse. 

If a fast instance exit is offered it should not be possible for any ship within visible range at the end of the hyper cruise to be tagged by a ship or fleet exiting invisibility or to join an instance created by a visible ship - meaning there must be a timer after invisibility has finished longer than the join timer for an instance in open world.

 

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Aphilas said:

To top it off, you give it to victorious nation - making strong even stronger.

Yes but it should be 7 teams trying to kill that 1 team and Victories can be made with Combat Marks now.

The old status quo of two giant teams being friends should be dead. The #2 team has a huge incentive to kill the #1 team and it will be hard to pay them off to stay friends. The winning team is going to need every advantage they can get because they are the new beat-down target.