Vernon Merrill Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Or do the thing that was logical from the beginning... Have a list of 8-10 officers with their traditional role... You get to choose 4/5 to fit out your ship with... Magic perks gone.... Anger at the RNG Gods gone... Legitimate 1-dura for every ship now easily possible because everything isnt tied to the almighty GOLD MODS... Couple that with the slider system for crafting ships and make specialty ammunition limited.... Boom. That part of the game design is done. Move on to the eye candy stuff that brings people into the OW such as junk loot and customization... Christ, a single damn fishing button and random shipwrecks brought more people into the OW than ANY of the ROE changes and additional ships have in the past 6 months. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBarb Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Wraith said: If you reduce the costs to produce a 7th-5th rate to a fifth of what they are now then they will be extremely cheap to produce. No one would go "several days" without a ship, that's just hyperbolic nonsense. I think you're completely underestimating the primary impacts of moving to one durability ships, and that's to increase the parity between capped ships (both AI and player) and crafted ships. As it stands now, since mods are not capped with the ships and you can't safely sail with non-craftable mods on one durability ships, then we all just break our capped ships up. But if they had value, especially for new players who could cap ships just above their rank, and those would be either useful in a combat sense or salable on the ship market instead of just a meaningless amount of cash, or breaking them up into parts, people would never be out of ships. Crafters would be able to produce enough ships that ship markets would be full, especially for lower-rated ships. And the prices of those ships would come down substantially. I think you're being pedantic and misunderstand the context of the statement. In the game development world "sheep" is not pejorative and, doesn't refer only to a difference in skill or rank. Any time I'm sailing around in an LGV or an Indiaman I'm playing the sheep. I employ a clan mate as a sheep dog to protect me from the wolves (which may be new, low-rank players out looking for a gank, even though me as a sheep and my mate as an escort are max-rank vets). You see the distinction? My referral to the fact that we have no sheep and hence no need for sheep dogs is mostly a consequence of having a broken economy, very little need to move goods on the open world, and no balance to a game to support fun, player-generated PvE and PvP content that keeps those types of players (traders/explorers, in general PvE folks) interested in playing. What we have left is a bunch of us die-hards that would rather be in a ship hunting, but are forced into doing the trade runs and the stuff we find mundane, because all of those other people are gone. And it all stems from that fact that those aspects of the game are so sadly neglected. Check mate. That said, with the current lack of traders and the economy in the state it is in, adding duras seems like the better choice. Perhaps they'll revert back to one after wipe and before release ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilgar Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 On 17-2-2017 at 10:37 PM, admin said: All linesips now have 3 durabilities with the corresponding increase of required resources. Wouldn't it make more sense to increase accordingly nr of high-grade notes and perhaps nr of gold coins required (to make gold great again, you know), but keep amount of resources required for crafting the same? This would still limit the crafting rate of SOL's, but would not force players to sail around for resources even more. As a casual player (1-2 nights a week) and crafter, I'd prefer to just wait for hrs to accumulate and then use most of the gaming time on PvP, instead of wasting precious gaming time on sailing for resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balticsailor Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 For anyone interessted the bow figure - katherine gives 10% more bow and stern hp. I think the PvE challanges should be reworked abit, some of the combinations just don't make sence and are more like a suicide mission, like 1 cutter vs 2 brigs in the kill challange or demasting 2 merc with 1 snow. For the demasting challange something like a bigger ships vs 2 or more small ships like 4th rate vs 5/6th rates or a smaller ship trying to demast one bigger ship (5th rate vs 4/5th rate) would be more fun. I also noticed that the belle poule in the challange use a 18pd / 12 pd gun setup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, balticsailor said: For anyone interessted the bow figure - katherine gives 10% more bow and stern hp. I think the PvE challanges should be reworked abit, some of the combinations just don't make sence and are more like a suicide mission, like 1 cutter vs 2 brigs in the kill challange or demasting 2 merc with 1 snow. For the demasting challange something like a bigger ships vs 2 or more small ships like 4th rate vs 5/6th rates or a smaller ship trying to demast one bigger ship (5th rate vs 4/5th rate) would be more fun. I also noticed that the belle poule in the challange use a 18pd / 12 pd gun setup. I only seen the pirates offer and one person posted the whale gives you pump, wonder what the rattlesnake does. Yah I been F11 them since the test server started the numebs and BR just don't match up. Essex vs two Trincs to demast them. You can switch the guns though, that is good. I'll have to mess with it more later today when I'm free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balticsailor Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 If you sink a player(or he surrenders) he is marked with a recently sunk tag in ow and a x befor his name in battle. If you sink him while he is marked you won't get the pvp marks you normaly would get. I haven't tested around with that yet though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) On 2/17/2017 at 6:32 PM, admin said: LV is wrong just like you. A lot of veterans want us to solve problems of those who played 2000 hours - or maybe even add 1000 of additional things to do. Our goal right now is to help the player who left after 10 hours to stay for a 100. If they can stay for a hundred the result will be more pvp for everyone. Starting with the first comment He is against providing the challenge ship for pve challenges. With that he just lacks understanding of what the normal average player needs. For example he does not understand that the normal player does not have enough slots or outposts to even participate in a challenge because he only has 5 spaces for ships due to server example. If the challenge is for unpopular ship the player cannot do it just because he does not want to sell his current ship just to do a challenge. Your biggest killer right now is UI, then tutorials and lastly lack of rewards. Don't go too much into complex stuff. Simple brain can't understand why they paid $40 and UI looks like crap. Help them and guide them with arrows and simple tutorials and reward them lightly for completing them. ex. Purchase better guns on your ship = 1000 gold. Buy kits = 1000 gold. etc.. finish all tutorial missions and get a painted next low rank (Niagara) ... boom..easy and effective. Fix those and you will see how it all will turn around. Don't forget if you reward actions people will stay, link drops to great rewards and they will be coming back. Google - Astronest and research it. That game will answer many of your questions and will show you some tricks. Edited February 21, 2017 by Ned Loe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captiva Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said: Or do the thing that was logical from the beginning... Have a list of 8-10 officers with their traditional role... You get to choose 4/5 to fit out your ship with... Magic perks gone.... Anger at the RNG Gods gone... Legitimate 1-dura for every ship now easily possible because everything isnt tied to the almighty GOLD MODS... I think that Vernon may have come up with the best solution. Edited February 20, 2017 by Captiva 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 This just came up in a convo today. We use to use REDEEMABLE XP from ships we crafted and others used. Well this is great for leveling up but the only use for it after you max out it was great for getitng your officer levers back. I tend to have enough to get my officer any where from level 5-10 levels when I loose one. So what the hell are we going to use these redeemable XP's for after the officer thing goes away? Maybe we could have a new system that if you hit so much xp it gives you something. Like every 1K XP can be turned into for a PvE mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 13 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said: Or do the thing that was logical from the beginning... Have a list of 8-10 officers with their traditional role... You get to choose 4/5 to fit out your ship with... Magic perks gone.... Anger at the RNG Gods gone... Legitimate 1-dura for every ship now easily possible because everything isnt tied to the almighty GOLD MODS... Couple that with the slider system for crafting ships and make specialty ammunition limited.... Boom. That part of the game design is done. Move on to the eye candy stuff that brings people into the OW such as junk loot and customization... Christ, a single damn fishing button and random shipwrecks brought more people into the OW than ANY of the ROE changes and additional ships have in the past 6 months. 1 hour ago, Captiva said: I think that Vernon may have come up with the best solution. I'll add something I mention several times. Why don't we tie them to your ships. That way it reflects Crew and Officers. So as you get a new ship you basically have green crew and new officers. The more you play that ship the more perks it gets. When the ship sinks you loose all perks. Same with if you trade it to any one. If you trade it back (like one time use) the crew resets any way. So folks will have to keep there ship longer if they want max perk on that one ship. This rewards the guys that actually do a lot of PvP over the guys that don't do much anything. Though you can get the xp from PvE too. As for the crafting perk make that linked to one region/port. That will be the players base. While crafting in that base of operation you get the perks you earn. If you craft a ship out of your base of operation it's the normal cost in labor hours and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spud Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, rediii said: Since you need 3x the materials to craft a new 3 dura ship i don't see anything that changes with that except that you don't loose your upgrades. Everyone is going crazy about this but in the end it's mostly the same. I don't care if i have a 1st rate with 3 duras or a first rate with 1 dura. In the end i only have more space in my ports. But that's just me. Sometimes i don't even go out with upgrades or i take some golden ones on 1 dura boarded ships etc. True, I don't get why it should be murdering the game. On top of that instead of having 3 ships with 1 dura, you'll have 1 ship with 3 dura. Meaning actualy less 1st rates in quantity in the game. Like admin said, the less experienced or the casual captains will now feel more comfortable sailing their SoL around making them stick around for longer hopefully. I can imagine a captain scraping together every piece of gold to finaly sail a Victory and having it sunk in the first mission or battle he does with it. Its the game I know, you lose ships, but chances are prety big that this guy will just deinstall the game and move on. Don't get what difference it would make for the hardcore gamers who have allot of spare 1st rates, altough I'll sure miss the pleasure of sinking a 1st rate knowing its a perma loss for the other guy. Also, SoL's are fun, even with 3 dura 1st rates we'll still be sailing 5th rates in OW for the biggest part we're not all sailing bellona's right... The rest of the stuff looks realy good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serk Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) First rate PB are often a boarding match. Without the risk of losing them if sunk, everyone will use precious gold sword fighting handbook, marines and what not in 1rst rate and rage board everyone. This will get old fast. Edited February 20, 2017 by Serk 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Add durabilities to modules and all the complaints about 100% boarding fitted 1st rates will go away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, TommyShelby said: Add durabilities to modules and all the complaints about 100% boarding fitted 1st rates will go away. Yeah, but then you'd need to make it so certain modules arent OP as hell and insta-win... because then its even MORE about who has what modules. I hate combat decided by RNG gods. I hate to say it but I think the whole perk/module thing needs to be completely re-worked. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesters-Ink Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Yes, the Vets are all on here calling for one dura and pretty soon there will only be vets playing. Keep shouting lads and you wont even have a game to play, because it won't be financially viable to publish. Stick with me, I'll get there eventually. I suspect a lot of players won't even come on here and voice their opinion due to the stigma about speaking out against such things. Why aren't people sticking around? Because the Vets have got the advantage and unless the noobs sign up right away with a good clan, they are going to get sunk over and over. There is no fun in that. Many of us used to enjoy PvE, yes I hear you cry out, "where's the fun in killing bots?" (even the Devs don't want us playing PvE). I'm making a point which I think helps explain the decline in player base. Some people enjoy a less aggressive playing style and more of a relaxing gaming experience. Go on, call us names, we have names for PvP'ers too . But back to my point. PvE has slowly but surely been killed off. The two main factors for this were:- you cant cap ships 3rd rate or above and you can no longer intercept enemy fleets as a group unless its a mission. So two or more players sailing around the map together, if one player "pulls" a fleet, no matter how close his mates are, he's in there on his own. Good one, a multi player game that you can't enjoy with your friends. So what is PvE for? Is it a training ground for new players to learn how to fight and maybe learn the basic commands? If so, it might be a good idea to have some good players in there helping new players to do that. Lets look at other factors. You can now teleport to a friendly port after a fight. Why? I can see the point of this for PvE because you are not going to get intercepted by anything anyway and it saves your sailing time. But in PvP????? Got to be the biggest screwed up mechanic yet. So you are out in your trader (who wants to trade anyway in PvP?) and you get pulled and capped. You then don't get the chance to intercept the guys who have just capped you because they hit the warp drive and folded space back to port. Stupid! What do PvP'ers want to do and why do they play? They play to fight other players. The majority do not want to sail to trade or learn a crafting tree. They want to be able to pick a ship, sail out and fight. Fight Fight Fight . . . thats PvP. So why force players to do a lot of stuff they don't enjoy? I suspect the player base numbers flourished when PvP was just battles and no trading or crafting. I see two games here, but due to what ever the Devs are trying to do, the two playing styles don't mix. Give the PvE'ers a server to sail and trade together on and give the PvP'ers what they want and you just might see a turn around in numbers. Keep forcing game styles on players they don't enjoy and feck knows what will happen. Now crucify me I'm so far past it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 5 hours ago, rediii said: Since you need 3x the materials to craft a new 3 dura ship i don't see anything that changes with that except that you don't loose your upgrades. Everyone is going crazy about this but in the end it's mostly the same. I don't care if i have a 1st rate with 3 duras or a first rate with 1 dura. In the end i only have more space in my ports. But that's just me. Sometimes i don't even go out with upgrades or i take some golden ones on 1 dura boarded ships etc. The pure cost is the same, but there are a few differences you might not see directly. When palyers have to buy more ships, they are interacting with the market more often. Also 1 dura would make ships cheaper, because more competition on the market would lower the prices. Its also a mind thing. Imagine 5 dura 5th rates and 1 dura first rates would be balanced considering the durabilities. A 5th rate ship would be more expensive than a first rate... thats weird at the first look. And people complained about actual 5th rate prices, while these were actually really cheap. One dura makes prices comprehensible. 5 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said: Yes, the Vets are all on here calling for one dura and pretty soon there will only be vets playing. We are trying to explain why 1 dura wont make anythin more expensive, and why its simply better than multiple duras. This has nothing to do with opinions, but looking at pros and cons. Btw. pure PVE isnt working, because you dont loose ships. But the game needs you to loose ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huliotkd Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 why don't limit number of ships? es. 2 or 3 1st rate for account, 4-5 2nd rate, 6-7 3d rate, 8-9 4th rate, 10-16 5-6-7-8th rate...all 1 duration and less expensive to build (resources an LH). - in pvp , boarded enemy 1st rate can be taken by winner switching with 1 of crafted 1st rate or sent to admiralty to increase the NPC fleet defending from future Raid mechanic. - player will move economy faster and more frequently - rich player or poor player have to stop in same way to rebuild lost 1st rate. so evreyone can compete with everyone, forcing you to use a different type ships - losing 1 duration ships can control numbers of gold module avoiding an endless pile up of them casual player with 10h of game aren' t influenced by 3 duration 1st rate...to sail a 1st rate they have to have more than 10h of gameplay and have to grind a lot of ranks and resources to sail a 1st rate. so casual 10 h player will never ever see a deck of a 1st rate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesters-Ink Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, Fargo said: We are trying to explain why 1 dura wont make anythin more expensive, and why its simply better than multiple duras. This has nothing to do with opinions, but looking at pros and cons. Btw. pure PVE isnt working, because you dont loose ships. But the game needs you to loose ships. I get that I really do. The problem with NA is its like a kaleidoscope. Making one change at a time won't fix anything because it impacts on other factors. Its one of those balancing acts the Devs have got to solve by adjusting many mechanics at the same time. I really don't envy them. As for PvE, well thats an opinion, a lot of players were happy on there doing their thing right up until the changes I posted. 20 plus players from my clan alone, gone in two months. The worst part is the not being able to sail together unless its a mission, just dumb for a multi player game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said: The worst part is the not being able to sail together unless its a mission, just dumb for a multi player game. I don't get this statement. I never had a problem sailing together with friends. If you sail together your are close to each other. And then you get pulled into battles together. I dont see the problem in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesters-Ink Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, TommyShelby said: I don't get this statement. I never had a problem sailing together with friends. If you sail together your are close to each other. And then you get pulled into battles together. I dont see the problem in this. Nope, not in PvE, only the person who clicks attack gets in, I will re test today, but thats how it was the last time I was in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said: Nope, not in PvE, only the person who clicks attack gets in, I will re test today, but thats how it was the last time I was in PvE. Ahh, i don't do PvE so i wouldn't know. Sorry! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesters-Ink Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Anyways just for ships and giggles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Jesters-Ink said: I get that I really do. The problem with NA is its like a kaleidoscope. Making one change at a time won't fix anything because it impacts on other factors. Its one of those balancing acts the Devs have got to solve by adjusting many mechanics at the same time. I really don't envy them. As for PvE, well thats an opinion, a lot of players were happy on there doing their thing right up until the changes I posted. 20 plus players from my clan alone, gone in two months. The worst part is the not being able to sail together unless its a mission, just dumb for a multi player game. Exactly, thats the problem and a reason that discussions are so difficult. Durability is only one parameter within economic balancing, they should change it when overhauling the whole thing. Tbh we only have these balancing issues now, because they didnt care about it for the last two years. In general when we argue about pros and cons, we should always assume that other mechanics are functional. Dont justify bad mechanics by other bad mechanics or actual imbalancing! Sure players can be happy in PVE, but economy is pointless without player ships sinking. The market would by hyperinflated very quickly. This is PVE only.. i like having PVE aspects, missions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 19.2.2017 at 4:56 PM, sruPL said: OK. This is PvP MMO game. We have to go either one way. Like in Arena style give everyone free 1st rates and all kind of ships so no one cares to lose duras, mods etc and there is not much crafting and production and trading at all or go medium-hardcore way of top ships having 1 less dura like it is now or go hardcore way of all ships 1 dura (both extremist ways are bad for me). Current system encourages mostly use of frigates because of duras. No one on the daily bases is sailing 1st rates alone. Other thing, if British fleet destroys 25 French 1st rates in Castries Port Battle, this means with new system French can use same 1st rate 3 times. So losing 25 1st rates won't hurt at all... Therefore any war efforts and destroying / capping enemy ships is pointless... Well. I dont like the comparison, GB vs FRA, but you have a point. Last time fine woods were implemented,and ships were almost impossible to craft and nobody wanted to sail out and do Pvp,cos everyone was scared to lose ship... Now again another extreme, make even 1st rates kinda worthless, because basically everyone can sail them,because of longer durability.. I do not understand these decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 3:37 PM, admin said: Challenges: PVE challenges now provide the ship for you. No need to purchase the ship anymore to participate in challenges. I don't think this will be such a bad thing. I could see it being used to excite lower level players to attain higher rank by not only giving them a bigger ship but the crew to sail it for the event. I personally could care less about PvE events but maybe this aids the new players as you suggest. 1 durability for ships of the line did not achieve its required goal and is removed. It did not have any effect on rich veterans and was just punishing casuals who left the game instead of converting into pvp/conquest players because they lost the ships they worked so hard on. All linesips now have 3 durabilities with the corresponding increase of required resources. -I am with all the others when they say this is a move in the wrong direction. The first and seconds are our end game ships and should be the most difficult to get, the most expensive and most meaningful to loose. I would love to see the evidence of all the players that left because they lost their first rates on the OS. You know that is BS and it insults our intelligence when you claim this. People that would leave this game because of the loss of one ship that isn't that hard to get in the first place would never last long in this type of game at all. They are carebears that would only exist on a pve game only. If you insist on adding dura to big rates then make it only two. That allows players to run all their mods without risk and if they get caught they can break the ship down and get a new one. In all practicality it will be a one dura ship that can sail safely with mods installed. I thought the goal of one dura ships was to limit the number of them. It did. It did it much better when fine woods were needed to build one but instead of removing fine woods for everything below a 3rd rate you just got rid of them altogether. You can now use the hold of your fleet ships. Awesome Admiralty store has been added for testing. The content is not final, prices are not final and what is sold in stores is mostly for testing the systems. The following rewards were added (names are temporary and might not survive) City Key - for raids or port attacks or defences Battle Ensign - PVP reward Short Pennant - PVE reward Trading Manifest - reward for trader ships or trading missions etc. Each reward can be used for exclusive content in admiralty stores (test content to test systems provided in testbed). All rewards are given in the end of battle based on battle kills and damage. If 10 people sink 1 ship rewards are split for 10 people based on damage, kills and assists. - no comment. good first step i believe Officers. Officers had one problem, they punished you if you played actively (and sank a lot). As a result officers were removed from the game and all perks have been moved to a player. You get 1 point per rank. The system is not final and will continue development. Officers in their traditional sense might come back in the future. I'm still for a time based, eve style skill leveling for our Captain with Officers used to compensate weak areas in the Captains knowledge. Make time accumulation active only when the player is out to sea, in an instance, in a frigate or better and away from protected waters. That would force Captains out on the ocean, would make any captain afk-"skill leveling" vulnerable to easy attack. Well.... some variety of the above. Pirate vs Pirate - outlaw battles. Pirates can now attack each other. The battle created by pirates vs pirates is always open and has FFA rules (free for all). You can sink anyone you see. Signalling perk does not work in the battle. Battle cannot be created in the capital protected waters. -This would be more enjoyable if you allowed the pirate clans to ally with each other and only pirate vs pirate on "red" pirates only. Recently killed tracker added to game. Players who recently lost the battle (sank or surrendered) no longer give rewards for 1 hour. This solves huge number of problems for a minor price.- ok. Ship paints can now be stored in clan warehouses. - ok Forts and towers were significantly buffed (large fort will destroy a ship in approximately 5 minutes under constant fire). We hope this feature will help players to vary their fleets a bit and bring mortar vessels to battles (who can destroy a fort in 10 mins. If this damage is too big we will lower it, but we were not really satisfied with the forts uselessness in battles. - Mortars are used in every battle. The Spanish just lost "big time" at Ays the other day because we screened out their mortar brig and they fought us under the towers. If you buff the towers strength then nerf its accuracy. Chain shot damage fall off from distance implemented and added to game. - I think this is good to test. I think the chain damage is way to high at the moment and needs a nerf. The laser sharp aiming of the rear guns needs to be nerfed as well especially if you are reducing chain damage. The ability to catch vs escape needs to be balanced and predicated on the number and type of ships you bring. Hour long chases are not fun for either side. All instances are now immediately closing when last player leaves the instance. A good % of instances were wasted for bot vs bot entertainment Discuss. Please avoid off topic in this thread and discuss the substance matter after you have tested the content and if you really have something constructive to say. -All of my comments have been made prior to testing and I will adjust accordingly. N.B.: You can find directions to join the test bed server here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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