Testbed: Content patch - 9.98 deployed

[Anne Wildcat]

1 hour ago, TommyShelby said:

It would be nice if we can convert PvP Marks to Trade Manifest/PvE Marks. Apparently you can only get the Pirate Frigate from Trade Manifest (Which you can only get from converting PvE marks to Trade Manifest - 10:1 Ratio). 

 

I agree, we should be able to convert PVP marks to PVE marks. I think the conversion now is 10 PVE to 1 PVP. The reverse should also be true, 1 PVP to 10 PVE.  Just no marks for recently sunk ships, as proposed, to avoid alt farming. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Anne Wildcat

[Captiva]

Did the Demast challenge. Boy, it is a challenge indeed! Didn't come close to winning.

On a side note, it still seems so odd to see mountain ranges on the southern coast of Florida. : )

 

The biggest complaint against bringing back 3 dura ships of the line seems to be that it will encourage players to load up their ships with Gold Everything Mods in order to easily capture other ships without fear of losing any of their installed gold mods until the ship is down to it's last dura.

Well, then shouldn't the goal be to treat each of the 3 dura as if they were 3 individual one dura ships? And to do this you have to make it so that anytime you lose one of the 3 dura, by being either sunk or captured, you also lose any and all installed mods. 

It seems a little hypocritical to demand 1 dura ships and at the same time not demand 1 dura for the mods installed on them.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Captiva

[Farrago]

While I agree 3 dura 1st rates seems bad now, if they get the economy and crafting straightened out and then wipe, we may feel differently. This is a game when almost everything seems broken in one way or another and for one element to get fixed, several others will have to be as well.

[Captiva]

29 minutes ago, Farrago said:

While I agree 3 dura 1st rates seems bad now, if they get the economy and crafting straightened out and then wipe, we may feel differently. This is a game when almost everything seems broken in one way or another and for one element to get fixed, several others will have to be as well.

I'm not against 3 dura 1st rates at all. They just need to be treated as if they were three separate 1 dura ships. As I suggested, the only way I can think of to do this is to make all mods 1 dura as well. If done this way, when you are sunk or get captured in any one of the 3 dura, you lose everything, just as you would if the ship was originally crafted as 1 dura ship.

So it seems to me that this would satisfy the Developers intention and also satisfy players who want 1 dura ships.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Captiva

[Angus McGregor]

On 2/17/2017 at 5:35 PM, admin said:

you cant make 1 durability work for an average player in a MMO environment. Its against our design goal
Ship must provide opportunity to have at least 3 non stop battles even if you lose every time. 

We listened to hardcore players before caved to 1 durability that brought nothing to the game - It did not reduce number or popularity of first rates for veterans, but it made life harder for average player who left instead of converting. If veterans want number of players stay or grow they must accept that the customer funnel must lose less players than it is losing now.

I admit to being very confused by this turn of events for ship duras.

I thought the idea was to make upper tier ships, especially 1st rates, less common. I agree with that goal in principle, but haven't been satisfied with the attempted methods to make it happen. If nothing else drastic happens, this change will have the exact opposite effect.

Has anyone else seen that design goal in bold print before? All ships should last through 3 losing battles? This is the first I've heard of it, but I certainly haven't been around since the beginning. Just curious.

I completely agree that steps are needed to retain new players. BUT I really doubt that the dropout rate from 4th rate to 1st rate capable ranks is anywhere near the percentage that leave from 7th rate to 4th rate. I would welcome some hard statistics from the devs on player dropout rates, tier by tier from 7th to 1st rate. I have a very bad feeling that time and efforts are being wasted on the lesser problems here.

If the devs admit that 1 dura is the better solution, but are afraid people will rage quit when they lose an expensive ship... make losing a ship less painful, especially at the lower ranks. It has been suggested more than once to make the ship crafting expense curve mildly exponential instead of linear. Can't we try the better solution first???

Edited February 19, 2017 by Angus McGregor

[Magic Wind]

All ships should have 1 dura, 2+ dura is not realistic.  Risk and reward pvp, anyone?

[LeBoiteux]

Multi Dura is not a matter of realism. It was designed to enable players to fight more often and more easily, being able to fight x fights in a row without having to waste time crafting the same exact ship or finding a seller between each fight. 

The first system allowed 5 duras to any ship, so you could fight 5 times in a row before crafting/buying a ship. It was as if owning 5 same ships.

When crafting was implemented, duras were reduced to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 depending on shiprate + 1 for captured ships to favor crafters' business.  

Being able to fight more and craft less (or waste less time seeking and purchasing) is less frustrating for casual NA fighters. That's the purpose of multi duras.

 

The next questions are  :

1) Should casual gamers be able to have access to 1s Rate ? I think so.

2) Should there be fewer 1st Rates in the OW ? Maybe. However, cost barriers (money) and 1 dura (time) aren't the solution to that. It only grants privilege to rich veteran gamers and frustrates casual gamers. And the latter are essential for NA.

 

My 2 cents

Edited February 19, 2017 by LeBoiteux

[shaeberle84]

19 hours ago, fox2run said:

What made me quit the game was the lack of larger battles. I really think they are cool. But somehow they are too rare and hard to get. I like to sail out in OW, find some swords and get into the fray. "Battle is closed". Hmmm. Not fun.

 Exactly this kills the fun for new players. They cannot do anything except do their missions (and hope not getting ganked), while there is not much for them to do on the OW. (and PVP is restricted to higher levels).

[shaeberle84]

18 hours ago, Twan said:

Thats not too bad? It would take quite some coordination crafting a PB-fleet this way still..

But with the current alliance and PB system and thick hulls, that many ships are never lost. Even if we would lose one entire PB fleet each day, the two alliances blocks can easily replace them.

It was more entertaining when we could bring only some 1st rates because nobody could craft them to a port battle. Back then, the economy meant something and it was required for the nation to work together and replace the losses.

Nowadays it is more like "you can only join the port battle if your aga is live oak strong hull with perfect modules".

[VonBarb]

On 18/02/2017 at 1:16 AM, Wraith said:

(..) We get to affordability by balancing the rewards of PvP (...) with the costs of PvP. If the rewards are such that it pays for a crafter's time and resources to produce a one durability ship with the modifications to be competitive in PvP, then you as a developer have won.

Yes and no. Even though that 'time and resources' might still be a lot of investment for some players, the system you propose seems like the best way to achieve balance between people who play this game 24/7 and real people. 1 Dura for all will only work if ships become more affordable to craft. Yet, finding the time and resources again after a lost battle may take some players off competitive PvP for several days, during which they'll be hauling stuff in traders to rebuild and be helplessly preyed upon, not developping their battle skills. They'll do it once, they may do it twice, and then they'll leave.  

Quote

We need systems in place that support the sheep, which will feed the wolves (...) Right now you have a bunch of wolves eating each other alive.  

Any business model (and a game is a business) that describes the small community of die-hard fans in place as 'wolves' and prospective future customers as 'sheep' and is based on the former 'feeding' on the latter is doomed from the start. The focus should be on creating a system in which wolves feed on their own kind. No one wants to play Seal Clubbing Simulator. 

[Snoopy]

I dont get the rage about first rate duras.
The game was fun when they had 5, it is fun now that they have 1, soon they will have 3. When they had 5 durabilities, losing one was still cheered in global so it did not tarnish their prestige value.
Apart from that even a first rate is not a magical unicorn. It is still made of the same wood as a third rate. Navies did use them. Making it multi dura is a matter of convenience and trimming slack in the boring parts of the game, we need more of that.

The only drawback of the multi dura system is that it makes prizes worthless because you can't sail 1 dura boats without module loss and some modules are worth far more than just making a new fresh ship. It is in fact so bad that prizes are an inconvenience to me because they clutter up outposts and I have to manually take off cannons (which then clutter up the warehouse) to sell them. In another game it's called vendor trash.

Instead of being against multi duras (they are a quality-of-life improvement) people should campaign for making single dura boats fully usable, send those modules back as redeemables if you lose your last durability. (or something like it)

[fox2run]

17 minutes ago, Snoopy said:

I dont get the rage about first rate duras.
The game was fun when they had 5, it is fun now that they have 1, soon they will have 3. When they had 5 durabilities, losing one was still cheered in global so it did not tarnish their prestige value.
Apart from that even a first rate is not a magical unicorn. It is still made of the same wood as a third rate. Navies did use them. Making it multi dura is a matter of convenience and trimming slack in the boring parts of the game, we need more of that.

The only drawback of the multi dura system is that it makes prizes worthless because you can't sail 1 dura boats without module loss and some modules are worth far more than just making a new fresh ship. It is in fact so bad that prizes are an inconvenience to me because they clutter up outposts and I have to manually take off cannons (which then clutter up the warehouse) to sell them. In another game it's called vendor trash.

Instead of being against multi duras (they are a quality-of-life improvement) people should campaign for making single dura boats fully usable, send those modules back as redeemables if you lose your last durability. (or something like it)

Maybe modules should be made like the old officer system. Then each module has 10 dura. It could also be officers with special skills. Imagine a marine sergeant (grey) marine  lieutenant (green) or maybe a colonel (gold) with a portrait and uniform and all. 

Edited: in this way you will expand your crew and feel an ownership for them. The special hammock-sailmaker, the doubleshot expert, the rigging specialist etc. a mini roleplay for each of us. Maybe the hire should go up for each module/officer so better crew cost more after each battle... Plenty of things to add.... Yes? :-)

Edited February 19, 2017 by fox2run

[Guest sruPL]

14 hours ago, Liquicity said:

inb4 skull figurehead aka another additional 10% mainsail force bonus, gg

Ahahahahah, can you stack it with Pirate Refit and Studing Sails? XDDDDDD

[Guest sruPL]

4 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

Multi Dura is not a matter of realism. It was designed to enable players to fight more often and more easily, being able to fight x fights in a row without having to waste time crafting the same exact ship or finding a seller between each fight. 

The first system allowed 5 duras to any ship, so you could fight 5 times in a row before crafting/buying a ship. It was as if owning 5 same ships.

When crafting was implemented, duras were reduced to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 depending on shiprate + 1 for captured ships to favor crafters' business.  

Being able to fight more and craft less (or waste less time seeking and purchasing) is less frustrating for casual NA fighters. That's the purpose of multi duras.

 

The next questions are  :

1) Should casual gamers be able to have access to 1s Rate ? I think so.

2) Should there be fewer 1st Rates in the OW ? Maybe. However, cost barriers (money) and 1 dura (time) aren't the solution to that. It only grants privilege to rich veteran gamers and frustrates casual gamers. And the latter are essential for NA.

 

My 2 cents

Fewer 1st rates in OW? If you go alone or in small group, you have a high risk of losing it. But in a big fleet you will slow down everyone and delay. I think no one is using 1st rates that much, other than missions and PBs.

[Grundgemunkey]

I cannot see what benefit a 3 dura lineship makes to anyone .... it will only lead to an open world full of Vics , L'Oceans ,  and Santis ... I can make at least 1 first rate a week easily and its rare to have 3 occasions a week where a 1st rate is needed ... if I had 3 duras on my first rates .can someone tell me why i would want to build or sail any other ship ? 

it doesnt benefit the new players to the game as they dont have the xp to craft them ...or the officer level to crew them effectively ... ..does 1 dura really put the casual player off playing ?? i dont know ...I would suggest if your a casual player you care less .about losing a 1st rate because ..they are indeed casual about their game play ...the fact that people use 1st rates as screening ships shows that most dont really care about losing even a 1 dura ship ...because hey are easily replaceable

I dont know why the devs are even wasting their time thinking about this when there are other more important issues to solve ,,

 

[Serk]

On 2017-02-17 at 4:37 PM, admin said:

Officers. Officers had one problem, they punished you if you played actively (and sank a lot). As a result officers were removed from the game and all perks have been moved to a player. You get 1 point per rank. The system is not final and will continue development. Officers in their traditional sense might come back in the future. 

Why not try if backward? You start with 10 points at rank 1 and progressively lose them the more you level up. 

Who needs magic to help them? Surely not veteran players  

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Serk

[Miha8]

anyone knows how to get City key?

[akd]

holy crap, magic figureheads with even more stacking bonuses. I am losing morale...(is there a figurehead for that?)

 

The only drawback of the multi dura system is that it makes prizes worthless because you can't sail 1 dura boats without module loss and some modules are worth far more than just making a new fresh ship. It is in fact so bad that prizes are an inconvenience to me because they clutter up outposts and I have to manually take off cannons (which then clutter up the warehouse) to sell them. In another game it's called vendor trash.

 

But this one thing is huge.  Capturing an enemy 1st rate is currently a big deal, and in fact, a low pop, high skill group can actually offset their production disadvantages to some degree with captured 1st rates.

Edited February 19, 2017 by akd

[Guest sruPL]

OK. This is PvP MMO game. We have to go either one way. Like in Arena style give everyone free 1st rates and all kind of ships so no one cares to lose duras, mods etc and there is not much crafting and production and trading at all or go medium-hardcore way of top ships having 1 less dura like it is now or go hardcore way of all ships 1 dura (both extremist ways are bad for me).

Current system encourages mostly use of frigates because of duras. No one on the daily bases is sailing 1st rates alone. 

Other thing, if British fleet destroys 25 French 1st rates in Castries Port Battle, this means with new system French can use same 1st rate 3 times. So losing 25 1st rates won't hurt at all... Therefore any war efforts and destroying / capping enemy ships is pointless...

[Angus McGregor]

17 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

Agreed, i like what i see. 

However just a heads up. The "Bow Figure" thingy is not a cosmetic item, it is simply a permanent module. 

I bought the "Bow Figure - Whale" (Pirate) and it turned out to be a Permanent Module giving 5% Water Pump Bailing bonus. (No Cosmetic change).

I've been meaning to comment on this for ages. 99.9% sure that the figurehead is modeled as a fixed extension of the hull. To have customizable figureheads would mean reworking *every* ship model.

[TommyShelby]

To those arguing about the Modules. 

Why not just give Modules Durabilities as well? So when you capture a ship it will still be 1 dura, but it will have all the modules which was on it before you captured it. 
Suddenly sailing a captured ship might be worth it.

[TommyShelby]

2 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said:

I've been meaning to comment on this for ages. 99.9% sure that the figurehead is modeled as a fixed extension of the hull. To have customizable figureheads would mean reworking *every* ship model.

Or simply making the figurehead a separate part of the ship. Yes, models would have to be reworked 1 time for that to be possible. 

But i mean, come on. You cant have something called "Bow Figure" and then it isn't even a Bow Figure... Silly.

[Snoopy]

20 minutes ago, sruPL said:

OK. This is PvP MMO game. We have to go either one way. Like in Arena style give everyone free 1st rates and all kind of ships so no one cares to lose duras, mods etc and there is not much crafting and production and trading at all or go medium-hardcore way of top ships having 1 less dura like it is now or go hardcore way of all ships 1 dura (both extremist ways are bad for me).

Current system encourages mostly use of frigates because of duras. No one on the daily bases is sailing 1st rates alone. 

Other thing, if British fleet destroys 25 French 1st rates in Castries Port Battle, this means with new system French can use same 1st rate 3 times. So losing 25 1st rates won't hurt at all... Therefore any war efforts and destroying / capping enemy ships is pointless...

I am unconvinced that economic warfare is a good thing in this game. I understand it can be a great motivator and makes victories all that more enjoyable (I was part of such an all out maximum effort each day rivalry pre-EA) but what if one side decides it has enough?
It is another of those downward spirals, a place where the game hemorrhages players.
Being able to run your opponent out of ships (or make them feel the effort of replacing them is not worth their time spent on an evening) means no more fights. You win, but you still lose.

[Snoopy]

48 minutes ago, akd said:

[..] But this one thing is huge.  Capturing an enemy 1st rate is currently a big deal, and in fact, a low pop, high skill group can actually offset their production disadvantages to some degree with captured 1st rates.

Join me in my campaign to make single dura ships great again then

Modules need to be reimbursed via redeemables on ship loss (or merged into captain/officer skills) or a bit easier 5-8 extra slots in the module section of the UI where the game places modules that you lost and where they can only be taken out of, not placed into.

It's two birds with one stone: Prizes are just as good as built ships (placing an incentive on taking rather than sinking), and people who actually make ships or pay for them don't have to invest as much time gathering materials.

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

24 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

To those arguing about the Modules. 

Why not just give Modules Durabilities as well? So when you capture a ship it will still be 1 dura, but it will have all the modules which was on it before you captured it. 
Suddenly sailing a captured ship might be worth it.

Simply remove the modules.
They are something artificial and certainly not vital to the game. The players have become accustomed to them and they think that without them you can not play. Obviously it does not. They are something artificial.
Grey, green, blue, purple, gold. Ridiculous things. Nonsense.

In place of the modules leave the possibility to set the own ship as you want (within certain limits).

PS: a certain freedom in customizing their ships in design (type figurehead, ship name, skin paint, and other little things).
They seem pretty simple things ...