19 mln vs 60 thousand - the cost of crew - moderated

[Harley Davidson]

NO.. Just No, I just don't see the need to go nuts on realism. If you go this route then there should be only one HMS Victory, USS Constitution  etc.  Are we going to be sending out press gangs to bolster the crews?  I'm finding the game fun right now and I just don't want to micro manage tones of silly things to just enjoy the game for what it is now. If I had to micro manage things I would just go do something else and would totally loose interest.

 

This game is fun NOW... don't make it a chore to play... I don't want to play games that would be the equivalent of a lawnmower simulator

Edited May 4, 2016 by Harley Davidson

[CeltiberoCaesar]

NO.. Just No, I just don't see the need to go nuts on realism. If you go this route then there should be only one HMS Victory, USS Constitution etc. Are we going to be sending out press gangs to bolster the crews? I'm finding the game fun right now and I just don't want to micro manage tones of silly things to just enjoy the game for what it is now. If I had to micro manage things I would just go do something else and would totally loose interest.

This game is fun NOW... don't make it a chore to play... I don't want to play games that would be the equivalent of a lawnmower simulator

The crew system is not only about realism but about Nations balance. There are some nations with more players than other that make the game totally unbalance what makes it fun only for the biggest nations... That is breaking the game.

Remember this is an alpha (actually beta... But thats another discussion) so you SHOULD expect the game to be changed and improved every X weeks/days/months. In addition the devs already said they want a realistic game, not an arcade game... So those changes are the ones to be expected.

Edited May 4, 2016 by CeltiberoCaesar

[Lannes]

The crew system is not only about realism but about Nations balance. There are some nations with more players than other that make the game totally unbalance what makes it fun only for the biggest nations... That is breaking the game.

Remember this is an alpha (actually beta... But thats another discussion) so you SHOULD expect the game to be changed and improved every X weeks/days/months. In addition the devs already said they want a realistic game, not an arcade game... So those changes are the ones to be expected.

 

Perhaps, the answer is to limit the number of players per nation by letting clans proliferate. That way you could have, say, a French nation with half a dozen clans each flying its version of the French flag (e.g., the tricolor, the 18th century Marine flag, the fleur de lis, etc.), each with the possibility of going against the mother nation--as I think would happen. That way, huge national groupings would be avoided. At the moment, France has several clans; Britain, too. It is easy to envisage break-away American clans. Each clan would have to be given a capital-port.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Lannes

[Decoy]

I'm totally on board with this.

[EricKilla]

As said by others in this group, I guess I'm fine with finite crew, but please make each port have an infinite supply. I don't want to have to sit around for hours just to set sail because there's not enough crew.

[VonVolks]

I am sure the idea of "officers" were mentioned in the past, and the crew overhaul can open the door to bring them in. 

 

As Balckjack Mgee suggested a new row of upgrades "Crew upgrades" could be filled with officers, with ranks unlocking new crew spaces. I.e no officers to start. post captina, 1 slot, flag captain 2 slots etc

 

These officers would be permanently attached to your staff BUT would be critical targets in combat i.E they could be killed at any time in combat. Then its time to hire some more crew. The bonus to morale (and whatever else) these officers gave should slowly increase with battle exp earned with them on board, to show crew bonding and elan building, and is of course reset when they die!

[SIGFTS]

I like the concept but see a possible problem of this promoting ganking if crew capture is possible. And, in my opinion ganking causes a lot of game rage (translates to lost users?) especially for those who have not worked their way up through the ranks and have no chance whatsoever to win or run when attacked. 

 

If I read the initial post correctly: If I lose my ship I lose my crew. That's fine but I tend only to lose a ship in a port battle or when ganked. If my crew can be captured (mentioned as a possibility) than this further promotes ganking because it would be easier for a group of say 7 to gank multiple ships (especially my traders) to refill their ranks than to sail around looking for more crew, returning to a port (in the case where one is far from a home port) to gain more crew or waiting for their ranks to regenerate. In some cases it would promote ganking because in the middle of sailing from one end of the map to another the only way to regenerate crew after a battle would be through capture.

 

It might also increase ganking right before port battles. Depending on how crew is assigned, there may be a surge of ganking to reduce a Nations' fleet just before a flag is planted. This may mirror the real world but I do not think that people will want to play much if they think whatever they do is useless or they can not grow because their crews are constantly limited or looted.

[VonVolks]

I like the concept but see a possible problem of this promoting ganking if crew capture is possible. And, in my opinion ganking causes a lot of game rage (translates to lost users?) especially for those who have not worked their way up through the ranks and have no chance whatsoever to win or run when attacked. 

 

If I read the initial post correctly: If I lose my ship I lose my crew. That's fine but I tend only to lose a ship in a port battle or when ganked. If my crew can be captured (mentioned as a possibility) than this further promotes ganking because it would be easier for a group of say 7 to gank multiple ships (especially my traders) to refill their ranks than to sail around looking for more crew, returning to a port (in the case where one is far from a home port) to gain more crew or waiting for their ranks to regenerate. In some cases it would promote ganking because in the middle of sailing from one end of the map to another the only way to regenerate crew after a battle would be through capture.

 

It might also increase ganking right before port battles. Depending on how crew is assigned, there may be a surge of ganking to reduce a Nations' fleet just before a flag is planted. This may mirror the real world but I do not think that people will want to play much if they think whatever they do is useless or they can not grow because their crews are constantly limited or looted.

 

You didn't read it correctly, as you only lose crew when the ships final durability is lost, and the ship is fully lost. If as you say it promotes PVP thats good.

[SIGFTS]

Ganking and its effects on the game are off topic.

 

Please specifically address the topic of limited crew/crew refill in this thread.

 

Thank you!

Edited May 4, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby

[Skippy]

You could also implement skills. And by that I mean default skills that are level 1 for everythings, then level up with your use of the skills.  The skills would be like: Commanding Frigate class ships, Utilisation of 18pds canons, use of a specific equipment.... so someone using a lot the frigate classe would get smalls bonus over time and be more efficients with that classe of ship. You could get faster, more agile, more armor... depending of your choice.. and that would be only small bonus that if cumulated could be very interesting.. until a limit of such X rank of skill for each one. So every kind of ships , guns, equipment could have skills you can unlock by using it and you choose between different characteristics like agility, damage... i dont go in detail, its just a rough idea to be explore.

 

 

We should have a bigger amount of choices when crafting ships... strenght, planking, type of wood etc, is pretty good...but Id like to see some more like max speed, max agility...

Edited May 5, 2016 by Skippy

[Busterbloodvessel]

 

 

This would also be a great time to make it so Nations need to replenish crew in there National Ports and are unable too in free towns.  While pirates are able to do it in free towns/pirate ports.

 

That would also stop Nationals sailing deep into enemy territory as they can't replenish crew in enemy ports or freetowns. (Will also stop people setting up war ports in free towns)

 

 

Just make free towns such that only Trader vessels can enter and repair/refit with crew and be docked there when an outpost.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Busterbloodvessel

[Banana_Joe]

NO.. Just No, I just don't see the need to go nuts on realism. If you go this route then there should be only one HMS Victory, USS Constitution  etc.  Are we going to be sending out press gangs to bolster the crews?  I'm finding the game fun right now and I just don't want to micro manage tones of silly things to just enjoy the game for what it is now. If I had to micro manage things I would just go do something else and would totally loose interest.

 

This game is fun NOW... don't make it a chore to play... I don't want to play games that would be the equivalent of a lawnmower simulator

Would love to have the ability to send out press-gangs.

I wouldn't mind more realism either. Micromanaging the whole crew might actually be quit nice. Sourcing food for my sailors, upleveling my cadets to officers, etc.

[Banana_Joe]

When the new feature is well thought and fits nice, it would be more playing the game instead of grinding.

[Thonys]

for the crew isseu

drafting buildings in a port is a option(as a new building )

 

the english drafted people in a certain  period in harbors to get their sailors for the fleet..

 

if you dont have drafting buildings you dont have enough crew to man.your fleet

 

a next option is when you capture a ship there where always men who walked over (building + walked over men) to complement your fleet.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Thonys

[CeltiberoCaesar]

When can we expect to see this ingame?

[Thonys]

When can we expect to see this ingame?

i don t know 

i think it is not even a suggestion i think....

[Ned Loe]

There are two problems merged into one topic:

 

1.) Balancing for RvR needs:

I think here might be the proposed crew management be useful, but how it is implemented should be carefully chosen, not to forget the needs of single player towards the behaviour of big clans. Also single players should be treated fair.

 

2.) Balancing the number of 1st rates:

I think the proposed crew management isn't here useful at all.

I propose to put this game onto three columns instead:

 

a.) XP (existing) handles only the "rank" of the player but does say nothing about the quality of your actions, like in a forum you have a certain "rank" but this does not say whether your posts are useful or redundant

b.) Craftsmanship XP (existing) works fine as far as I can tell

c.) Reputation (new) - better reputation means you are allowed to sail out with bigger ships - restricting the number of 1st rates in a port battle, this does indeed rate the quality of your actions for your nation

c.)You are suggesting a simple filter. Filter noobs who sail 1st rates and show others they can't join because they are bad captains. Leaving large crowd outside the game with weapons in their hands who are ready to defend their country and who sailed for a long time to a designated port. It's sounds like - soldier you did not get enough kills, today you will sit and wait in barracks. You can keep your rifle with you until you get more kills. (Soldier can't get more kills because he sits in barracks and rarely is picked up for a patrol where he can get kills).

[Ned Loe]

When can we expect to see this ingame?

2 Weeks or so I would guess in next upcoming patch?

[Ned Loe]

I am sure the idea of "officers" were mentioned in the past, and the crew overhaul can open the door to bring them in. 

 

As Balckjack Mgee suggested a new row of upgrades "Crew upgrades" could be filled with officers, with ranks unlocking new crew spaces. I.e no officers to start. post captina, 1 slot, flag captain 2 slots etc

 

These officers would be permanently attached to your staff BUT would be critical targets in combat i.E they could be killed at any time in combat. Then its time to hire some more crew. The bonus to morale (and whatever else) these officers gave should slowly increase with battle exp earned with them on board, to show crew bonding and elan building, and is of course reset when they die!

I believe you will be able to lvlup your officers, so they will become more skilled and give away more bonus for your crew and ship. I don't see why we need more upgrades. Sail wisely and your officers will reward you with better stats. 

 

Let's wait for more info. 

[Crankey]

I think avoiding the 'meta gaming' influence (e.g. 2nd accounts being used to 'raid' enemy ports of their resources, crew numbers etc) is vital in all parts of the game wherever possible.

 

In saying that I have always been in favour that we should bring in as many in game factors as possible that the player can interact with, crew, warrant officers, officers, each having a variation in quality as well as effect. Though not so much that the game becomes a foregone conclusion. 

 

I propose a slightly different system to that initially posted. A system that doesn't allow cross team "ruination".

 

Hand bills cost money and were used by captains to find new recruits. Perhaps a gold fee could be attached and some form of bonus fee if better than the normal crewmen were attracted.

 

All ports always have basic officers and pressed men/landsmen available that can be used to replenish crew. This pool is infinite. These are however officers/crewmen with the least ability. Whilst they will replenish your crew they will not enhance your performance. (We have this now, though no cost is associated to it) In fact these men are delivered mid ocean between battles)

 

In addition all captains also have a limited pool of replenishment officers and crew who are of a slightly better quality. This pool will be limited to the players rank and further influenced by pvp notoriety. This means that the notoriety of the captain sending out his hand-bills will have the potential to hire greater numbers of able seaman and leading seaman, to replenish losses and attract better quality warrant officers and officers through 'influence' within the navy board. Notoriety in the pvp world could include recent history (Say within the last 30 days) of BR damage to enemy ships in battle or port battles. The influence waning and increasing as activity increases or reduces.

 

A time period buildup similar to crafting hours would be a viable way to keep tracks of numbers per time period to max out at a suitable number.

 

Ships could achieve 100% able seaman over time if casualties were not inflicted providing an 'elite' like crew.  (Will we have crew experience changing landsmen to able bodied etc over time ?)

 

I wouldn't want to see massive bonuses for better ability crew, but it would be nice to see reasonable bonuses.

 

I believe that the dynamic ability of a crew could in many ways replace or supercede many of the current upgrades used on ships in the game. Reload rates, Sail skill and yard turnign speed, etc etc.

[Bommel]

I believe you will be able to lvlup your officers, so they will become more skilled and give away more bonus for your crew and ship. 

I really hope this is not true. 

What I like about that game is the fact that it´s allmost purely skill based and not about who invests most time into it. Sure we have ranks but those are more like a forced learning curve so players are forced to start with small ships and learn the basics before they command a 1st rate.

Making upgrades (yes I consider Officers as upgrades) gain more benefits over time is a bad move and will only favour the guys who invest the most time and widen the gap between older players and new players.

[haemol]

How about limiting the larger nations simply by reducing their production rates of resources at ports instead of making unforseeable adjustments to crew replenishment?

[VonVolks]

I really hope this is not true. 

What I like about that game is the fact that it´s allmost purely skill based and not about who invests most time into it. Sure we have ranks but those are more like a forced learning curve so players are forced to start with small ships and learn the basics before they command a 1st rate.

Making upgrades (yes I consider Officers as upgrades) gain more benefits over time is a bad move and will only favour the guys who invest the most time and widen the gap between older players and new players.

 

Ah but not if those officers can and do die at regular intervals in combat. It will add more risk to battles and illustrate the misery of victory  (i.e I won the battle woo, but Lieutenant Digby is dead, nooooooo") as well as defeat. Of course the higher ranks your officers get the more likely they will die as they will have to stand on the quarterdeck with your captain to show their mettle!

 

I would think that "officer death" should be an integral part of the officer function, for one thing to show they are human and not just "upgrades". Its funny how you can grow attached to valuable units in games like this....

[Hethwill]

I still have a doubt Devs.

 

Suppose a player has maximum rank. It is, by mechanics, entitled to a certain amount of crew.

 

Now what if that player doesn't want to use them at all ? Like in a simple sloop captain which only wants to command 50 to 70 crewmen.

 

That captain would only have to pay the prizes and allowance for that crew right ? Despite how many sloops of the same model he has in docks, the crew carries over, I get that one.

[Johnny Rotten]

May way around losing crew would be to just sell my 1 dura ship (or break up) if crews are limited/expensive

 

EDIT : selling to port as no one wants to buy a 1 dura ship because they wouldn't want to risk the crew

Edited May 9, 2016 by Johnny Rotten