Remove 1.5BR anti-gank programming

[Neptune]

Not really sure what your point is, even in Highsec u can kill anyone u like but have to bare the consequences. Are you really trying to argue that there is a restriction in Eve like. there is already 1 capital in system u cannot enter because BR too high?

Well thats your opinion, my opinion is the closer this gets to the basic Eve mechanics the better, if u want another failed sail game for carebears go play Potbs?

So apparently all of us players who like skilled, challenging fights are carebares, right? So if we don't find ganking enemy 13v1 fun or whine because we can't organize to all get in the battle we are carebares? I think it's the other way around. And the irony when people call players who want less ganks and more skill based combat carebares. You are the ones crying you can't gank as much and might get roped into a fight where enemy has a chance at defeating you because you don't have a force that makes it impossible for enemy to win. Nuff said.

I think you should read the forum more, I think it's clear they are not trying to be EVE and don't want to be. And either do we.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Acadian44

[CptEdwardKenway]

I like the tool. You still can outnumber ships. But if a ship comes to help and it's 2 vs 3 or 3 vs 4 all the gankers are running now. Seriously stop crying you don't have pvp now while you have no interst in pvp and always run when it comes to proper fight. The only thing you want is gang gank single players.

Edited April 17, 2016 by CptEdwardKenway

[snackbar]

I like the tool. You still can outnumber ships. But if a ship comes to help and it's 2 vs 3 or 3 vs 4 all the gankers are running now. Seriously stop crying you don't have pvp now while you have no interst in pvp and always run when it comes to proper fight. The only thing you want is gang gank single players. And for those who want to quitt: never stop traveling people.

Pretty sure you haven't read the previous posts at all. This change benefits gankers more than anyone. 

[CptEdwardKenway]

Some were crying about it. Actually there are no problems now. Instead gankers are running now pretty fast. I couldn't see any advantage for gankers now. I only see possibilities for real fights but those gankers are running too fast.

And I don't need to read all posts. I just look at my experiences since the last patch. I am sure this should be enough.

Edited April 17, 2016 by CptEdwardKenway

[Neptune]

I have had excellent fights since the patch. Those complaining either have no clue how it works, how to find good fights, how to defensive tag so you don't get ganked or just want to gank. They come up with rediculous scenarios that you can easily avoid or something that would never happen to make an arguement. Yes I love this system. Why? Because it works well not just because I want too. Most of the haters already hated it before it was put in, knowing it was soon to be doomsday for a portion of their ganks. Everyone I have PvPed with, or against have had enjoyable battles with it. Not sure what the problem is. I haven't been ganked yet, only fun PvP. Some losses, some wins. But all entertaining.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Acadian44

[Hethwill]

I am not sure what difference it would make. Sailing 4 more minutes to not get in the fight isn't any different then sailing 10 seconds and not getting in the fight.

 

4 minutes would be just an extension for the "coastal guard" ships to come and aid if they feel the inclination to do so. Works both ways though.

[Tretton]

This 1.5 BR rule simply got to go. One of the worst game mechanics introduced so far. Naval Action feels yet a little more like arcade now.

If I want only evenly matched, staged fights I go for World of warships or Warthunder or whatever.Is this really what Naval Action wants?!? Now people are sailing in circles across the edge of the battle cicle waiting for the join button to light up. Once an enemy joins, then I can join. And thensnother ship from each side, and then anorher. This makes for very "gamey" behavour and totally ruins strategy and open world tactics as well as any historical or realistic feel for the game.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Tretton

[Random]

And I don't need to read all posts. I just look at my experiences since the last patch. I am sure this should be enough.

I'll thank whatever gods may be then that we have you alone to test this game and new mechanics. Could you please stop posting nonsense such as "people crying", you haven't read the posts - you kind of shoot yourself in the foot with such contradictions and only insult people who are posting valid concerns with new mechanics. 

[Vllad]

Everyone I have PvPed with, or against have had enjoyable battles with it. Not sure what the problem is. I haven't been ganked yet, only fun PvP. Some losses, some wins. But all entertaining.

 

What server and nation are you on? Apparently you haven't sailed beyond your front door or put much time in the game since this change.

 

Since you feel our scenario's are crazy how about we hook up and show you just how much more ganking this system created? I am Spanish on PVP1.

 

This BR rule will ruin this game, you just need the proper people to show you how.

[WilsonMG]

So far most complaints seem to be coming from people that prefer to only PvP when the numbers are in their favor or by folks getting screwed trying to capture ports.  All it should do is keep people from ganging up on weaker forces after the initial attack.  You can still have your 25v1's... just keep them inside the attack bubble and wait until everyone's off cooldowns to allow the ticker to hit 0.  It's really quite simple.  Maybe I'm just unbiased because it hasn't affected me because I don't travel in a large hunting party trying to find smaller forces to... gank...

 

With the ability to now position ships in such a way as to cut off escape routes, especially if someone is using the wind and any land masses as part of their ambush, we simply can't have the unrestricted ability to join the battle after it is initiated, with an unlimited number of reinforcements.  Why?  Because if the system can be abused, it will be.  Regardless of what anyone says about leaving the game, what will most certainly kill it is if people feel like they're being abused by other players manipulating the system.

 

The only real valid argument I've heard is forces being divided due to the cooldowns.  Maybe the post-battle/leaving port cooldowns need to be revised?  Could the latest system use further tweaking?  Sure.  But that's what we're all here doing.  Testing to find the best fit for v1.0.

 

We definitely need a post battle time cap. that allows for let's say, 2.5 mins. to remain in the battle instance, and 2.5 mins. to sit on the Results Screen.  Why as much as 5 mins. total?  Because occasionally after playing a game for up to 1.5 hrs., people need a bathroom break, to stretch, etc.

[Ser_Slack]

So far most complaints seem to be coming from people that prefer to only PvP when the numbers are in their favor or by folks getting screwed trying to capture ports.  All it should do is keep people from ganging up on weaker forces after the initial attack.  You can still have your 25v1's... just keep them inside the attack bubble and wait until everyone's off cooldowns to allow the ticker to hit 0.  It's really quite simple.  Maybe I'm just unbiased because it hasn't affected me because I don't travel in a large hunting party trying to find smaller forces to... gank...

 

With the ability to now position ships in such a way as to cut off escape routes, especially if someone is using the wind and any land masses as part of their ambush, we simply can't have the unrestricted ability to join the battle after it is initiated, with an unlimited number of reinforcements.  Why?  Because if the system can be abused, it will be.  Regardless of what anyone says about leaving the game, what will most certainly kill it is if people feel like they're being abused by other players manipulating the system.

 

The only real valid argument I've heard is forces being divided due to the cooldowns.  Maybe the post-battle/leaving port cooldowns need to be revised?  Could the latest system use further tweaking?  Sure.  But that's what we're all here doing.  Testing to find the best fit for v1.0.

 

We definitely need a post battle time cap. that allows for let's say, 2.5 mins. to remain in the battle instance, and 2.5 mins. to sit on the Results Screen.  Why as much as 5 mins. total?  Because occasionally after playing a game for up to 1.5 hrs., people need a bathroom break, to stretch, etc.

 

I see another poster that doesn't read the whole thread.

[Pinkelephant]

Hey!

 

This patch killing this game...

I think must be change it..

[Migui]

So far most complaints seem to be coming from people that prefer to only PvP when the numbers are in their favor

I don't like artificial fences into my sandbox to make cerebears and risk aversed players happy so that they can turn a sandbox and open world game in a medieval tournament. For that, you get the wonderful duels/small/large battle thing and port battles.

I have ganked, i have been ganked. It is part of the game and it is pretty awesome.

In open world, if i gang up with 4 buddies of course we are going to pick targets we can fight and we can win and some days you are on a killing spree and others you are sunk pretty hard.That's life i guess? Or you want me to be a wizard and know who is at the sea when i undock? Or even more hilarious, after two hours sailing i will disagree to engage anything that is not exactly our battle rating? If you think that ganking is too easy and has no risks, i invite you to try.

This is all so lame. People should man a bit and learn the slightest situational awareness to prevent being ganked. Most people already reports fleet movements, learn to do it and stop whining when someone ganks your mission because with the 2 minute window is already enough to make sure. If someone is within drawing distance when you enter the battle, they will likely be able to enter. If not, they will not enter the battle.

The rest is just putting excuses to make the open world pvp a shameful theme park with dumb rules to protect those that want to sail their ships totally protected because they can't even bother to look around.

I wonder why this people wants to play in a PVP server with an open world. It blows my mind to even think that they get all scared to lose their ship. It's a game. It even has this non sensical concept of ship durability LOL. You lose a ship, you buy another one and you keep playing. It's not that hard.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Migui

[Wilson09]

You lose a ship, you buy another one and you keep playing. It's not that hard.

 

Yeah.

Finally, you loose a ship.

It is not Hardcore with a "hard close".

 

If it were hardcore with a hard close, you´d loose your character being sunk...(assuming no one rescues you).

 

One dura is nothing...starts being more exciting being on a 2nd rate / 1st rate...

Edited April 18, 2016 by Wilson09

[Poyraz]

Limiting sides 1x vs 1,5x is quite OK for now.

The ratio could be increased from 1,5 to 1,8ish though, whereas for small group pvp it still means two of the same tier ship can not gank one alone same tier ship. On the other hand for larger groups, it might still be more risky to fight 10 vs 18 instead of 10 vs 15 ( Assuming all same BR ships). So, it can also make the ganking fanatics less angry.

Finally, the battle timer should be increased to 5 minutes again. Since the primary battle size condition is now BR limit, not the time.

[Lord Vicious]

the br limit is really stupid and annoyng

expecial for big clans, you chase a group of 4-5 frigs then only 7-8 of us can get in and guys outside get chased by enemy reinforcements make very hard for a group of 10 players to play together, also it have no sense at all , why enforcing a fake limit? we in open sea ffs, if 25 guys can tag a guy they should get in , it not get the game better, u gona die 1 vs 5 as wel vs 25, it only make ppl who wanna tag for annoyng/slow much more efficient

you cant control who get in, it randomly pick guys around, and leave others outside have no sense at all, maybe 1 guy remain outside and get ganked

Edited April 18, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Spam Hands]

 If someone is within drawing distance when you enter the battle, they will likely be able to enter. If not, they will not enter the battle.

This is a reasonable statement now. Under the old mechanic this was not true.

 

There were constant complaints about player squads hiding in completed battles in order to remain artificially invisible within drawing distance and then to pop out and attack an enemy once a tag had been made close to them.

 

The developers made the 'anti ganking' change, so that you would have a chance of seeing your attackers rendered in the game world and within draw distance. Your point above supports the change the developers made, rather than countering it.

[Lord Vicious]

This is a reasonable statement now. Under the old mechanic this was not true.

 

There were constant complaints about player squads hiding in completed battles in order to remain artificially invisible within drawing distance and then to pop out and attack an enemy once a tag had been made close to them.

 

The developers made the 'anti ganking' change, so that you would have a chance of seeing your attackers rendered in the game world and within draw distance. Your point above supports the change the developers made, rather than countering it.

you can still do it only with less ppl, get ganked by 5 or 20 make no difference. the br limit ruins the ow, my clan play high risk pvp in front of enemy capitals with 10+ guys, and we are getting splitted off in multiple battles all the time, wich have no sense becouse the game allow 25 vs 25

[mouse of war]

Being an above average player with a good ship gives advantage - and so it should.

But the counter for quality has always been quantity and this is what has been undermined by the 1.5 rule.

 

Life has been made even easier for the above average and how can it be right that an average, casual player has almost no possibility of winning a battle even when surrounded by friends?

[Migui]

This is a reasonable statement now. Under the old mechanic this was not true.

 

There were constant complaints about player squads hiding in completed battles in order to remain artificially invisible within drawing distance and then to pop out and attack an enemy once a tag had been made close to them.

 

The developers made the 'anti ganking' change, so that you would have a chance of seeing your attackers rendered in the game world and within draw distance. Your point above supports the change the developers made, rather than countering it.

LOL don't twist my words to make it appear that I support this change that is only to appease the carebears.

[Vllad]

So far most complaints seem to be coming from people that prefer to only PvP when the numbers are in their favor or by folks getting screwed trying to capture ports.  All it should do is keep people from ganging up on weaker forces after the initial attack.  You can still have your 25v1's... just keep them inside the attack bubble and wait until everyone's off cooldowns to allow the ticker to hit 0.  

 

How can you possibly tell what people prefer by reading a post? Have you not read what peoples complaints are?

 

This system creates more ganks then ever before because now gankers can abuse the system. I recommend going through the thread completely so you see what is actually going on.

[Lord Vicious]

Yesterday my clan was in front of kingstone we where going to gank a santi, then 15 brit players get around him, cool i tagged one brit guy who was a little more faar,and i manage to pull 80% of the escort of the santi in a battle with us, my only meaning was the remove the escort using a proper circle tag for exlude the santi, the santi was left alone with only 3-4 guys, he not was able to enter with his friends becouse they where already too many vs my group, while a second group of my clan ganked and captured the santi left alone.

All thx to BR limits, we outplayed them? yes, is cool ? NO even if we got the santi, becouse this happened thx to a broken mechanics who not enabled the santi to join the battle with the rest of his fleet, leaving him alone to be ganked by our 2nd squad., so pretty much u make 2 gank squad one for make a bad tag faar away and pull in the ppl you wanna remove from fighting, and one for gank the real ships u wanna fight.

All of this happened thx to this broken and really easy to exploit mechanic becouse our 12 guys where not able to engage 19 brit+1santi with old mechanics

The br limit brings more problems than solutions, lucky for me my clan is full fo competent ppl, we engaged multiple fleets in front of port royal but always there was some of my guys left outside, forced to run from swarms of brits that where able to undock and pile up against the main battle, so they where entering and unbalance the fight, and my guys outside where forced to try to run back for enter inside the battle when the br where allowing them to join, risking all time to be pulled in another fight probably outnumbered. pretty much the br limit sometime unbalance the situation vs the gankers, wich is a nonsense since we all together more organized, but the mechanic leave some guys outside to be swarmed, or forced to get distance, then enemy enter br, and the guys outside need to try to run into the battle cause new enemy reinforcement or risk to be tagged, is very stupid, considering is an ow, the mechanic is not helping anybody

Edited April 18, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[jodgi]

I have no strong feelings either for or against BR ratio limits, I'll leave you to fight among yourselves on that.

Just stahp with asking for longer join timers. The 2 min timer we have today is slightly above max we can have before the OW turns into a perpetual Trafalgar lobby. I don't care if you want to help your buddies, if you're not there in (accelerated) time and space you're not in.

[Jean LaPointe]

A very interesting thread. PvP I was under the opinion it was to mean Person vs. Person. RvR in the PvP world seems to mean “Pack of Dogs” vs. “Pack of Dogs”. The 1.5 rule has gotten those who only play a hunter/killer pack of wolfs pretty upset due to being unable to attack as a whole pack. There are some of them here that state 1v5 or 1v25 is no difference. Then why do you need your entire pack to beat up a the “1”? So what if only 4 or 5 make it in? You are still running an advantage and I am still going to lose (what fun for me, haha, I get to lose a ship – oh that’s right I can buy another and you will be waiting for me at my front door to take that too!).

There has been more whining about this rule and it is coming more from those clan types that have to have everyone together holding each others hands to have a battle, ie they just aren’t getting to play the way they want to.

I don’t give a scrape about POTBS as that is in the past and a different type of game, this is a new era, new people playing and with developers that are trying to provide a difference with this game. Embrace the changes, change your tactics – maybe ganking is a “has been” tactic as well. Change the PvP3 (EU mirror) to RvR battle filed and restrict that server to “Ganking” only play. Remember THIS IS ALPHA, this is where we see how the rules fit FOR EVERYONE!

[Random]

A very interesting thread. PvP I was under the opinion it was to mean Person vs. Person. RvR in the PvP world seems to mean “Pack of Dogs” vs. “Pack of Dogs”. The 1.5 rule has gotten those who only play a hunter/killer pack of wolfs pretty upset due to being unable to attack as a whole pack. There are some of them here that state 1v5 or 1v25 is no difference. Then why do you need your entire pack to beat up a the “1”? So what if only 4 or 5 make it in? You are still running an advantage and I am still going to lose (what fun for me, haha, I get to lose a ship – oh that’s right I can buy another and you will be waiting for me at my front door to take that too!).

There has been more whining about this rule and it is coming more from those clan types that have to have everyone together holding each others hands to have a battle, ie they just aren’t getting to play the way they want to.

I don’t give a scrape about POTBS as that is in the past and a different type of game, this is a new era, new people playing and with developers that are trying to provide a difference with this game. Embrace the changes, change your tactics – maybe ganking is a “has been” tactic as well. Change the PvP3 (EU mirror) to RvR battle filed and restrict that server to “Ganking” only play. Remember THIS IS ALPHA, this is where we see how the rules fit FOR EVERYONE!

Please read the whole thread. I know it's rather long and oftentimes repetitive, but you are missing the point that a lot of people are making - it's not about ganking, it's about negative drawbacks of this feature that prevent antiganking measures and actually help those who do gank.