Remove 1.5BR anti-gank programming

[Slamz]

 Why should you be able to reinforce?  Why would you even want to?

 

It's really about whether or not you join games like this to play with your friends.

 

Maybe my guild is a dying breed. We are an old guild that has played many game together for many years. When we sign into a game, we like to be able to play it together. If someone fails to join a battle because he was in Cuba when he should have been in Jamaica, that's reasonable -- what was he doing way over there?

 

If someone fails to join a battle because he was a tiny bit outside of some circle, but still in plain view, and now he's stuck outside for what may be 90 minutes, then this game is harming group/clan gameplay.

 

 

 

Which, I think, is what some people actually want. They fear the 6v1 because they will always be the 1, because they are basically anti-community misanthropes and never join groups or clans (other than to text chat and find someone to build ships for them). I'm not sure we need to cater to people like that.

[Prater]

Lets see here.  Am I part of a clan?  Hmmm...

 

1 year ago.  Neutral Plymouth essentially owned by TDA.  English Capital was St. John's and then English Harbour.  10 minute join timers.  Dozens and dozens of British captains complaining in game and on the forums that TDA is ganking every English captain in sight (and out of sight).  SLRN was forced out of the area to the Yucatan.  Because we knew how to use my (at the time) secret map and f11s, we were able to get to any fight and turn it into our favor.

[Babble]

Lets see here.  Am I part of a clan?  Hmmm...

 

1 year ago.  Neutral Plymouth essentially owned by TDA.  English Capital was St. John's and then English Harbour.  10 minute join timers.  Dozens and dozens of British captains complaining in game and on the forums that TDA is ganking every English captain in sight (and out of sight).  SLRN was forced out of the area to the Yucatan.  Because we knew how to use my (at the time) secret map and f11s, we were able to get to any fight and turn it into our favor.

That makes you some clever sailors.  However I'm not really sure how it applies to the current game state.

 

EDit: I see what you were responding to now.  I still think its off topic tho as well as Slamz remark.

 

 

I sail solo a lot.  I dont like the BR change because when my friends are actually online at the same time I'd like to be able to play with them

Edited April 13, 2016 by Babble

[Prater]

The point is, you can still sail with friends and be part of a clan.  That hasn't changed.  TDA has long sailed together, and has ever since OW opened up.  This isn't going to change anything.  Now, it forces you to actually sail together and removes "tacklers."  Cause you know, TS and radio wasn't a think back then.  To sail and fight together, you had to be within signal range.  You didn't have TS where you could call mayday when you got jumped or found a solo target to kill and your friend is over the horizon out of sight. 

[Anne Wildcat]

Ganking makes me think of a bunch of teenage girls that go to the bathroom together bc they cannot do 1 thing on their own.

[Babble]

Over the horizon means your not making the 2 minute timer.  In most instances the split groups will still be very near each other.  Just slightly out of the attack circle.

[Michael CorvinusSnr]

All I see is the Gankers bitching about this. Jamaica is where new Brit players go to learn, and they have to put up with Gankers.

 

Most of the time you see a fast ship tagging and then the rest join in someties up to 5 -1, as soon as enough Brit ships turn up to fight them.... they run like twats.

 

That's not fighting or PVP, that's griefing, If they were so keen on PVP why don't they stand and fight or are even numbers to frightening for them?

[Slamz]

Now, it forces you to actually sail together and removes "tacklers."

 

Exactly. This will result in fewer fights.

[maturin]

Exactly. This will result in fewer fights.

Only if your tackler is afraid of getting the stuffing beaten out of his fir carronade Renommee.

 

Mathematically it's the same number of potential fights. There are just fewer people in them. Which is the whole point.

[Xander Tyrann]

Exactly. This will result in fewer fights.

Don't see it. I think it will result in more due to groups being broken apart.

Will wait and see though.

[Dekillos]

All I see is the Gankers bitching about this. Jamaica is where new Brit players go to learn, and they have to put up with Gankers.

 

Most of the time you see a fast ship tagging and then the rest join in someties up to 5 -1, as soon as enough Brit ships turn up to fight them.... they run like twats.

 

That's not fighting or PVP, that's griefing, If they were so keen on PVP why don't they stand and fight or are even numbers to frightening for them?

if I understand correctly, now you cannt rescue your friend sailing on expansive ship, because your BR may be too high. Now gangers can break your formation and kill "low skills" part of your fleet.

Edited April 13, 2016 by DekTo (Dekillos)

[Quarios]

This part of the patch is really bad. And in my opinion it makes it even easier for the gankers.

 

Before the patch we used to roam in enemy waters with 2-8 Ships, after a few kills normally we get swarmed by 10-17 enemy ships which spread out around the last known battle. With this patch, we now can take them out one by one thank you admin.

 

In general this 1.5BR nonsense just overcomplicates the pvp, and makes it too artifical for a casual user. It also destroys the feeling of the chase on OW, which was stated by you, you would like to have in the game. IRL Ships didnt sail side to side, there were miles between them especially when they were looking for enemies.

 

tl;dr Pro Players will have it easier to gank, while casuals will fail miserably and quit the game(pvp)

[fox2run]

This part of the patch is really bad. And in my opinion it makes it even easier for the gankers.

 

Before the patch we used to roam in enemy waters with 2-8 Ships, after a few kills normally we get swarmed by 10-17 enemy ships which spread out around the last known battle. With this patch, we now can take them out one by one thank you admin.

 

In general this 1.5BR nonsense just overcomplicates the pvp, and makes it too artifical for a casual user. It also destroys the feeling of the chase on OW, which was stated by you, you would like to have in the game. IRL Ships didnt sail side to side, there were miles between them especially when they were looking for enemies.

 

tl;dr Pro Players will have it easier to gank, while casuals will fail miserably and quit the game(pvp)

That is a good point. Im wondering why pve is even allowed on PvP server. Allow only PvP and make it bearable to loose a ship. In this way a lot of battles will take place.

[Vllad]

 

Mathematically it's the same number of potential fights. There are just fewer people in them. Which is the whole point.

 

This sums it up right here.

 

"There are fewer people in them"

 

Now you are catching on to what is bad about the BR rule. Less people able to participate in PVP is the end result of this rule.

 

The ONLY alternative for players to combat this is to all sail around in the same ship. You stated earlier you were tired of nothing but Ren's and Tricom's. Well welcome to the new world where you will see just tackling ships and tackling ships only.

 

Live Oak and other slow creatures need not apply. Their is no room for ship diversity. The basic player will learn that quickly after just missing out on the combat circle one time.

[Michael CorvinusSnr]

There's PVP and griefing.

 

Most of the ganking that I have seen around Jamaice are from the usual suspects of griefers who just prey on noobs and defenceless targets.  

 

When more ships turn up, they leg it. I thought that they WANTED PVP?????? They have a good PVP and battle opportunity handed to them, without any wait and... they leg it... So,, tell me do they want PVP or do they just want to Gank and Grief???

 

Seems to me these people only want to enter PVP in overwhelming odds in their favour. What a pathetic way to PVP.

 

This mechanic is an attempt to curb this. It may work or not.. this is Alpha.

If it does not work, then something else may come up. Possibly have safe areas for learners.

 

I would not be surprised of most of those bitching about this are gankers themselves.

 

IF you want decent PVP then go find it, or if you want to just Gank and call it PVP, all you do is ruin somebody's game play, maybe that is what you want and how you get your kicks

[Bach]

Only if your tackler is afraid of getting the stuffing beaten out of his fir carronade Renommee.

 

Mathematically it's the same number of potential fights. There are just fewer people in them. Which is the whole point.

exactly

"there are just fewer people in them". That's is never a good goal for a pvp game. Same number of pvp fights but available to less of the player base. It's a bad solution that promotes solo play and discourages team play. A better solution would be some mechanic that gets players that want to fight the gankers into that fight. There by having the same number of pvp fights but available to more of the player base.

Don't see it. I think it will result in more due to groups being broken apart.

Will wait and see though.

Most of the time we get into a fight there isn't anyone else around for miles. I would imagine if you did this right off a nations Capitol port there would be secondary fights. But in the other 80% of the sea zones they are just going to be sitting there.

[maturin]

exactly

"there are just fewer people in them". That's is never a good goal for a pvp game. Same number of pvp fights but available to less of the player base. It's a bad solution that promotes solo play and discourages team play. A better solution would be some mechanic that gets players that want to fight the gankers into that fight. There by having the same number of pvp fights but available to more of the player base.

Most of the time we get into a fight there isn't anyone else around for miles. I would imagine if you did this right off a nations Capitol port there would be secondary fights. But in the other 80% of the sea zones they are just going to be sitting there.

So you are willing to go on record and say that a 10v1 battle is preferable to a 1v1 or 2v1?

 

I suppose that verifies admin's statement, that the upset people are just defending ganks. Gankers want to gank. The more the merrier.

[Vllad]

 

Lets ask toyota's 5 why's

 

• Why they are sitting outside of the fight?
• Because they were away from the pulling zone
• Why they were away from the pulling zone?
• Because they were sailing away from the main group
• Why they were not keeping station sailing away from the main group?
• Because they were slower
• Why the avant guard got ahead of themselves knowing the group could be split up?

 

 

Yes let's ask why.

 

1. NA designed a bunch of different kinds of ships and different wood types, they all travel at different speeds and turn at different rates even in the open sea

2. The ship doing the tackling may be faster or at a better wind angle

3. The tackled player typically doesn't just sail in the straight line

4. Not all ships are equal and can react equally even if we are all robots and take the same tact

5. Lag is not always equal

6. You can all travel in one big clump but at the moment of contact the margin for error is very small

 

 

Now that NA implemented these rules what will it force players to do so they can reduce the issues listed above?

 

1. They will all sail in the same ships of the same build (Sorry no Live Oak, Teak or Oak for you!)

2. There will always be an optimal PVP ship now if you wish to pvp in a group

3. People that can't sail in this optimal build will not fight with his clan

4. The majority of ships NA designed will be for nothing

5. Combined ship combat will disappear completely

6. The ability of those being ganked to be saved will be reduced significantly

7. The ability of those being ganked of getting side kills will be hugely reduced.

8. The game will become more boring since people will be excluded from fights in combination of everyone using the exact same ole model of ship to pvp in.

9. Ganking will continue as it always has and you actually now prevent counter ganking

 

 

This mechanic has been utilized before. The outcome for NA will be no different then it was other games.

[Hugo van Grojt]

Lets be honest:  This mechanic is to designed to reduce that ridiculous tactic of having a gank squad hide in a port and have a single ship go out and tag something that happens by.  Now that you are actually able to see what you are up against, people who use that tactic hate it.  I STILL think that there should be a viewable list of captains currently in port since any captain in the day would immediately know as he entered port.

 

AMEN, brother!

[Vllad]

So you are willing to go on record and say that a 10v1 battle is preferable to a 1v1 or 2v1?

 

I suppose that verifies admin's statement, that the upset people are just defending ganks. Gankers want to gank. The more the merrier.

 

You are missing the entire point so let me try to say this as simple as I can.

 

The number of people in a fight does not determine the quality of a fight. I have fought 10 on 1's that were certainly better fights than 1v1's. I have fought 1 on 10 where I enjoyed the fights way better than any 1v1. Equal numbers of players or BR does not automatically equate to a quality fight. They are completely un-related. However this issue is irrelevant to the people on this thread arguing against the BR limit.

 

What is relevant is that any mechanic that limits amount of people who can pvp up to whatever the game can handle is bad for the game.

 

In Planetside you could have 200 vs 200. The more people that can PVP the better it is for the game. If that leads to some 10v1's that is acceptable. If that leads to 200 vs 1 that is acceptable.

 

What destroys PVP games is when you try to put mechanics in place that limit who can engage in PVP.

The long term consequences that come with these mechanics ALWAYS ends badly for the game. No one wins with player participation limitations. Not the gankers, not the gankee's and not game developers.

[Vllad]

  I STILL think that there should be a viewable list of captains currently in port since any captain in the day would immediately know as he entered port.

 

The BR change has nothing to do with this. You don't need to destroy the entire group pvp mechanic to deal with port campers. If port camping was that important they would have just made it so you can't engage in combat for 2 minutes after you leave the port.  

 

You can still port camp even with this change. You just have to be good enough at math to calculate the BR.

[Prater]

If your group is all sailing fir ships, it will be destroyed the moment it hits or gets hit by a competent group.

[Slamz]

If your group is all sailing fir ships, it will be destroyed the moment it hits or gets hit by a competent group.

 

How do you plan to hit us?

 

If you split off a tackler who can catch us, you won't all be able to join in. Some of your group will be left outside and we can destroy you piecemeal.

 

If you don't split off a tackler, you won't be able to hit us at all. You'll just sit there in a big slow blob and the only thing you'll get to fight will be a bigger, slightly faster blob.

[iR_Willow]

 

Which, I think, is what some people actually want. They fear the 6v1 because they will always be the 1, because they are basically anti-community misanthropes and never join groups or clans (other than to text chat and find someone to build ships for them). I'm not sure we need to cater to people like that.

Agreed, its like some players may want to be like edward kenway which has no place in this game. Irl edward must have had to do alot of running and choosing his targets like a actual skipper during the time.

[Prater]

Fir ships winning a roughly equal fight and competent opponents?  Unlikely.