Reinforcement Zones - A Better Approach

[Christendom]

So Safe zones.  We're in a bit of a pickle between the wolves of the game wanting the ability to hunt outside capitals and then on the flip side the game does need to offer some basic protections so newer players can start to turn into veteran players.  Without safe zones, the population drops.  In a perfect world this game would have 2000 players and capitals would be protected mainly by other captains of that nation.  Also in that perfect world with 2000 players capitals would be far too busy to hunt and most ports on the map would be populated enough to be able to hunt them with frequency.  But we're not in that 2000 player paradise and we're barely cracking 400-450 during a busy EU prime time and for some reason we still have 11 nations to dilute our base...   anyway..

Introducing:

The  Pax Christendom Solution to all our Reinforcement Zone Issues

Step 1

Introduce 2 zones around a nation's capital and it's protected ports.  

Note - obviously not to scale, just emphasized for this post.  Rings would need to be smaller

Red Zone - Capital Area.  Zero PVP.  Players cannot tag other players at all.  Players can still tag AI and more importantly, lower level missions spawn in this zone.  Let's say up until master & commander.  Loot potential in this zone is greatly diminished.  Similar to how crappy the loot is in hostility missions.  Only the "basic" stuff drops for newer players.

Blue Zone - Reinforcement Area.  Players can tag and be tagged.  Mid level missions spawn here.  Something like Master & Commander - Captain.  AI can also be tagged for a slightly higher increase in loot potential.  Missions and AI battles close after a certain time period.  Players that are tagged automatically call for PLAYER reinforcements.  Player vs Player battles stay open for 30mins.  If there is a way to increase the starting distance automatically I think that would also be a good idea.  This way, despite a good tag there is still some hope for the player and give others an option to join.  Another thought would be to immediately call for reinforcements, but delay the battle start 60 seconds.  

Step 2

Introduce a new feature called hot zones.  When a player is tagged and hits the reinforcement button in the reinforcement zone (blue) a message from clerk goes out into nation chat "A Semaphore Tower has Signaled that a British Ship is in Distress and Needs Assistance".  Then a red circle/zone/spot will appear on the map in the general location as to where it is. 

Something like this.

 

Step 3

Protections against jumping missions.  Let's be honest here, popping into missions and/or AI battles is highly weighted towards the attacker.  It also ruins the gameplay for new players.  While making battles inside the blue zone close after the standard amount of time will help, people will still get jumped.  Any hostile players that join a mission or AI battle should automatically spawn AI reinforcements for the defender AND create a hot zone on the map.  

aka - preventing ganks and creating more "honest" pvp.  People hate ganks, mission jumping is ganking.  Most folks don't mind losing in honest fights.

Step 4

Create 2 types of missions. 
Low risk - spawns in the blue zones.  Decreased loot chances, mission XP and gold payout.  Battles close after 3mins
High Risk - spawns outside of any protection zones.  Increased loot chances, mission XP and gold payout.  Battles close after 30mins

Players can pick their poison.  

Step 5

Getting players outside of the safe zones.  
- as above, increased payout and loot potential for missions and AI fleets
- crafting inside player owned ports has an increased chance of creating gold/purple ships  (safe zones/capitals should have a 0% chance)
- increased PVP payout.  Introduce a pvp mark "bonus" called "Open World PVP Bonus".  Maybe an additional mark per person based on the ship class.

----

Thoughts and feedback would be appreciated.  This actually took a little time to put together so @admin better read it or I'm gonna go weep in the shower and re-evaluate my life.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Christendom

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Certainly better than the situation we have now.

[staun]

Well think it is worth a try, It will be a help for new players. But personally have a hard time to see, it will help on the population. The players I think we lose the most of is the veterans, that still like the game, but just want to log on, take there first rate out for a spin, but on safe mode. 

I don't have the numbers, but I am pretty sure the only 3 cancle of missions have made a significant drops om missions done, and therefore the avarage time players spend in game. I know the general idea is that this is a PvP server, and well those guys should just play on the PvE server. But not having them online hurts us in all others parts of the game. They generate income in the ports, and actually a lot of those guys is also the guys we in time get out on PvP and in to RvR.  By killing of the softy veterans the just push away a large group of playes, that can be a ressource in all other aspect of the game.

I don't think we will get more players to play, because we make a smal change in reinforcement. What we need is real content for the PvE players on the PvP server, that can be more interesting missions,  Have interesting things you can do in the port, at better economy overall in the game, and so on. But that was not the topic. Think you have a good idea, thats worth a try.

Edited May 10, 2018 by staun

[Christendom]

5 minutes ago, staun said:

Well think it is worth a try, It will be a help for new players. But personally have a hard time to see, it will help on the population. The players I think we lose the most of is the veterans, that still like the game, but just want to log on, take there first rate out for a spin, but on safe mode. 

I don't have the numbers, but I am pretty sure the only 3 cancle of missions have made a significant drops om missions done, and therefore the avarage time players spend in game. I know the general idea is that this is a PvP server, and well those guys should just play on the PvE server. But not having them online hurts us in all others parts of the game. They generate income in the ports, and actually a lot of those guys is also the guys we in time get out on PvP and in to RvR.  By killing of the softy veterans the just push away a large group of playes, that can be a ressource in all other aspect of the game.

I don't think we will get more players to play, because make a smal change in reinforcement. What we need is real content for the PvE players on the PvP server, That can be more interesting missions,  Have interesting things you can do in the port, at better economy overall in the game, and so on. But that was not the topic. Think you have a good idea, thats worth a try.

Only thing that will bring back players is new content.  

And yea cancelling only 3 missions a day was an absurdly stupid change.  Still no idea why it was introduced. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Christendom

[Hethwill]

I will be brief, struggling with the entire idea.

 

Regarding Step 1

We have 2 zones - reinforcement and rest of the map. Oh yeah ...  and the capital area ( no fishing, etc ) which is of no consequence.

Regarding Step 2 

I like the semaphores ( Signalling ), but dislike the GPS idea.

Regarding Step 3

Missions are locked by rate already. But I get what you mean. A horde of pickles will make short work of a much bigger ship already doing a fleet mission. But missions on zone already close immediately. And missions outside close after 3 minutes. What is missing ?

Regarding Step 4.

We have two types of "mission" rewards in place already. Both Missions and OW AI combat yield different chances of loot. Combat missions give only basics. OW AI may give anything.

Step 5.

I like the idea of having everything outside the present Reinforcement zone to be enhanced. Actually no. It is the opposite ! ( rewards are very high already ) Reduce the outcome rewards inside the zone.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Only thing that will bring back players is new content.  

And yea cancelling only 3 missions a day was an absurdly stupid change.  Still no idea why it was introduced. 

 

I think it was introduced along with crappy rienforcements so capital area hunters stopped grumbling about looking into a fishbowl they couldn't kill new players in.

Even now some complain about "revenge" fleets, as the server pop has decreased significantly.

One thing i have noticed and in no means wish to be unconstructive is that whenever a change is made the devs ask about impacts of the changes. When people point out bad impacts the answer is "we know what we are doing", or just bluntly dismiss obeservations or concerns. Of course not all feedback will be good feedback but it seems the devs know what they want so why even bother asking for feedback.

 I for one will just like anything the devs say while mostly playing something else and wait for release, I simply can't be bothered to suggest anything.

 This game has a lot going for it, hope by release you guys create something that will succeed.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Dibbler

[Teutonic]

I agree with this product and/or service.

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Step 3

Protections against jumping missions.  Let's be honest here, popping into missions and/or AI battles is highly weighted towards the attacker.  It also ruins the gameplay for new players.  While making battles inside the blue zone close after the standard amount of time will help, people will still get jumped.  Any hostile players that join a mission or AI battle should automatically spawn AI reinforcements for the defender AND create a hot zone on the map.  

aka - preventing ganks and creating more "honest" pvp.  People hate ganks, mission jumping is ganking.  Most folks don't mind losing in honest fights.

This may be fine to stop mission jumping, but many gankers wait to get someone when they exit the mission, probably badly damaged and short of repairs.

[Wind]

Think logically. Developer did not want to go with a nicely working potbs zone mechanics, why do you think they would pick this one? Great ideas, but it requires too much work and I do not have any hope it will ever be implemented. I personally would love to see something is done to zones. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Wind

[traitorous mctraitoro]

there'd be at least 50 more red spots in that area

[Guest]

I think the idea of having an actual safe zone where low level missions spawn is a great idea. Let the new guys practice without being messed with. 

The idea of messages from clerk seem promising, but as others have said the map isn't dynamic enough for the red dots, also it would get very messy. 

All in all, I agree that we need to move high level missions and high rewards out of the zones. Players should have to leave if they want good rewards. The zone should be for rebuilding and learning, not for getting rich.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Guest

[Slim McSauce]

So many versions of this have been suggested, but your is by far the best. PvP facilitation is a must, the game is so boring otherwise. My fear is something like this is out of league for the devs, they just pulled back on masts pens showing because it gave the enemy too much info and the person actually getting shot 0 info. It's still too soon to tell but whatever follows UI should be a nice beefy content update. It's been many years since I've started playing and few big content upgrades have been introduced in that time, development is starting to feel like DayZ with 1  half-step forward and 20 microsteps backwards and sideways

Edited May 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Navalus Magnus]

@admin Seriously devs, watch this video and admit that the current reinforcement zones are:

1. Misleading new players:

Somehow they think they are in a "safe" zone.

Why? Maybe because good games do have effective ways of protecting new players and they hope NA to be no exception - although the steam reviews tell them a different story.

 

2. Coded badly!

Even if the reinforcement zones aren't supposed to be litteraly safe it seems like a joke to me, that enemys are able to evade fighting propper reinforcements just because they joined a lot later than thier vanguard of small-vessel-friends!

 

3. And thus contribute to a bad image NA does have if you look to steam reviews.

I say contribute, because NA is badly lacking content also!

 

So please ...

a) at least fix the problem described in 2. as soon as possible,

b) get the UI done,

c) ad new , exciting PvE CONTENT to the game (!!!)

 

I don't write such comments to piss you off!

I just want the game to be successfull because the combat can be thrilling, the OW could offer so much, ... to make it short the game could be a very good one!

But there's still lot of way to go imo!

Edited May 11, 2018 by Navalus Magnus

[Sir Texas Sir]

16 hours ago, Wind said:

Think logically. Developer did not want to go with a nicely working potbs zone mechanics, why do you think they would pick this one? Great ideas, but it requires too much work and I do not have any hope it will ever be implemented. I personally would love to see something is done to zones. 

Yah but lets be honest if any one remembers the PBTS zone mechanics it worked and it brought all the PVP to spots you knew about.  Since port battles took a long time to set you had a lot of fun in the Red zones.  They where the only places you could PvP in and all the rest of the map was safe fun area you can do what you want for the most part.  It had a good healthy run until it started to loose players for lack of upkeep, support and than turnign it f2p (when I left for WoT).   Though I don't want that same model cause this isn't the same game, but I would love to see RED ZONES pop up on the map when there is a lot of PvP and such to draw folks more to that area.  Say any time a port has 25% or more agro it turns read and you get a bonus for fighting in that area to your rewards.  This way you don't have to flip the port but you can get folks to come fight in that zone any way.

[Fletch]

Why are we always focusing on the green zones? The green zones are teaming with life and are doing their job. why dont we focus on the rest of the world outside the safe zone and ask ourselves why its empty? Ill give you a simple reason to much risk for too little reward. Why not have rare NPC ships sailing outside the safe zone that could be captured? Why not make trading important again?  Treasure fleets sailing the open seas at random (not in safe zones)  dynamic events and invasions by NPC fleets. Why are we always looking to destroy the thing that works and turn it into a wasteland like the rest of the map?

Leave the green zones make the open world more inviting and more worth while for traders and explorers, A lot can be done without killing the capitals

[Christendom]

2 hours ago, Fletch67 said:

Why are we always focusing on the green zones? The green zones are teaming with life and are doing their job. why dont we focus on the rest of the world outside the safe zone and ask ourselves why its empty? Ill give you a simple reason to much risk for too little reward. Why not have rare NPC ships sailing outside the safe zone that could be captured? Why not make trading important again?  Treasure fleets sailing the open seas at random (not in safe zones)  dynamic events and invasions by NPC fleets. Why are we always looking to destroy the thing that works and turn it into a wasteland like the rest of the map?

Leave the green zones make the open world more inviting and more worth while for traders and explorers, A lot can be done without killing the capitals

Because the green zones were recently changed and are not doing their job?  People are unhappy about it.  

I agree about focusing on the OW, if you read the post.  I also think that this games future relies on new or returning players and if the game continues to allow them to be farmed literally 20 seconds out of their starting areas we’ll never pick up momentum.

 

Look at this write up for another Open world full loot MMO that just launched.  People are upset about veteran griefers killing players right outside the safe zones and reviews are not good.  Sounds eerily familiar right?  Imagine that, new players don’t immediately like to jump into a PvP zone 30 seconds after leaving the starting zone... who’d of thought.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/05/10/wild-west-online-launches-onto-the-dusty-trails-today/#more-541801

 

@admin and everyone else anti safe zone.  Go watch Mighty_Mo for a couple of hours and watch how easy it is for him to get mission jumped and/or ganked running missions.  This is the new player experience and probably the reason why we have so few new players.  Granted he gets stream sniped, but watching him getting ganked over and over right outside the capital, while entertaining, is just laughable.  

 

[Christendom]

The new player experience, after his third time being ganked that evening.

 

[Wick]

what is called when one does the same thing over and over again expecting different results? 😉

[Sento de Benimaclet]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:15 AM, EliteDelta said:

I think the idea of having an actual safe zone

Do not call it a safe area because it is not anymore.

 

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:15 AM, EliteDelta said:

Let the new guys practice without being messed with

Since the reinforcements have changed, everyone is attacked: novices, traders, etc. Precisely the security zones were implemented so that this did not happen.

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:15 AM, EliteDelta said:

The zone should be for rebuilding and learning, not for getting rich.

Those who become billionaires are a minority. Bring resources to the stores of the clans is enriching? Do not those who sell the PvP Marks really get rich? Have you stopped to think that it takes a lot of money to get copper plating, boven, cartagena, etc? What is too much trade? then one of two: or lower the prices of those upgrades or ALL the RESOURCES, MATERIALS, UPGRADES in all the capitals of nations in unlimited number and very cheap. END OF TRADE We mount well-equipped boats and PvP and RvR. finally, and let's get rid of nonsense: if there is a security zone that can not attack anyone in it, and if that does not like the MOST of players, then remove them. Calling reinforcements to what comes out now is an insult to intelligence.