Patch thoughts.

[HachiRoku]

I was in a couple of pvp battles today and did a good job grinding marks. I could have build 1 connie with the marks if I wanted to. Can someone explain to me why a ship like a Connie should require pvp? A casual player will never get the marks they need to build a ship because they simple will not be competitive and they will be forced to gank other nations and that gives no pvp marks. For upgrades its good idea but not for ships for now. Let people that buy the game sail the ships they really bought the game for please. Know one buys naval action because of the grind for pvp marks to sail a ship. They buy it because of the great battles they see on youtube with proper ships. Please dont force us to sink newbies doing missions and the worst thing is WE TAKE EVERYTHING from them because they want to play a sailing GAME. The players I killed today were left with no ship, no gold and a basic cutter for restarting all over. Why should I feel bad about killing 3 surprises a 3v2? It is a game and not a life and we should be able to simply make ships with mats. The cannon costs are ok but the mats to craft them should be easily be obtainable without the need to sail 1 hour. A nation like GB starting with no coal is a joke.  If the grind is to much for a player with 2500 hours like myself it has to be to much for everyone. 

[Fellvred]

I think it says a lot about the direction of the game when pvp on a pvp server is described as a grind.

#makepvpfunagain

[William Livingston Alden]

I would realy not recommend that game to new Players, cause of the fact that you must "grind" your way starting with a Basic cutter and "unplayable Midship man"  Missions.

If you don't know that game then you have no Chance to get Forward.

And I realy don't unterstand the DEVS here. They didn't learn nothing from their old failures the did. The game is now worse than before, esp. when you do the Adm. Orders.

The KI in the missions is a way to good in Shooting, thus it makes absolut no fun to Play.

When NA follows this way nobody in the future wanna Play this game. Means someone will buy and try it for a couple of days and then leave.

But that is also a Business way  to get Money.

 

[admin]

1 hour ago, William Livingston Alden said:

I would realy not recommend that game to new Players, cause of the fact that you must "grind" your way starting with a Basic cutter and "unplayable Midship man"  Missions.

If you don't know that game then you have no Chance to get Forward.

 

dark souls 3 (pretty casul game) throws you into the room with the first boss in 3-4 mins of gameplay. You cannot exit that room and die approximately 3 to 25 times depending on your knowledge of previous games. You cannot skip that boss. If you dont pass him you cannot play the game furhter. 

Cutter can solo lvl 4 missions when leveled up.   Midshipman missions are not a problem as they are easy once you learn.  

The good problem is raised by @HachiRoku above and below. Players should not feel bad about sinking others

[Cmdr RideZ]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

dark souls 3 (pretty casul game) throws you into the room with the first boss in 3-4 mins of gameplay. You cannot exit that room and die approximately 3 to 25 times depending on your knowledge of previous games. You cannot skip that boss. If you dont pass him you cannot play the game furhter. 

Cutter can solo lvl 4 missions when leveled up. 

Make it PvP please.

[admin]

5 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

 Please dont force us to sink newbies doing missions and the worst thing is WE TAKE EVERYTHING from them because they want to play a sailing GAME. The players I killed today were left with no ship, no gold and a basic cutter for restarting all over. Why should I feel bad about killing 3 surprises a 3v2? It is a game and not a life and we should be able to simply make ships with mats. 

this could be a problem of course. and needs to be addressed

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

Cutter can solo lvl 4 missions when leveled up. 

Would like to see a video of that....than again your a Dev you know all the ends and out of the game.  A new player won't and any time I gone against a ship of that level they crew shock me ever hit and sink me.   

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

this could be a problem of course. and needs to be addressed

you should of seeded us with cannons and a little starting money or repairs for the ships we got, than we could fight each other than having to fight newbies and others just struggling. I get more from taking a Trader Brig than I do for a Basic cutter (no pvp marks for them) but now that players out of a means to make money.  Since he doesn't have it he can't get money to get cannons to put in his bigger ship unless he just grinds nothing but his basic cutter.

 

We went to KPR tonight and had a swarm of basic cutters came out to fight us.  We got a trader brig, killed a few basic cutters, but lost a Surprise (he did  get cocky and went into the green zone) in that fight, other than the Trader Brig player no one really lost anything on the Brits side.  Right now most folks won't risk there other ships cause it will break them to buy new cannons for the other ships or even new ships to make up for the ones lost.

[Anolytic]

Some very valid questions are raised in the OP.

To some extent though, I see it as those just wanting to sail a Santissima or a Victory because they are beautiful models in this game, they should be happy in the coming Naval Action Legends.

This game on the other hand, if you can find a proper clan you can get into any ship you want eventually, but for the most part it's for duelling frigates in OW, and maybe the occasional rich mf going out in his painted 3rd rate. And of course port battle fleets and hostility grinding groups with big ships.

[victor]

@admin

To make the game more appealing for newbies/casual players, I think you should do some little tweaks to missions system:

1) missions (at least for first 4 ranks) should pay way more gold then now (at least 2x or 3x the acutal ratio) and the price of IA sold cannons should be cut of a 30%;

2) restore solo missions (at least) up to post captain rank;

3) make ships from mission drop more upgrades/books (keeping the acutal repair/rum drop ratio, which is good enough now)

4) take connie and/or idefatigable (which are good ships also for PVE purposes) out of PVP mark system (or make them obtainable also with PVE marks).

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by victor

[shaeberle84]

6 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

I was in a couple of pvp battles today and did a good job grinding marks. I could have build 1 connie with the marks if I wanted to. Can someone explain to me why a ship like a Connie should require pvp? A casual player will never get the marks they need to build a ship because they simple will not be competitive and they will be forced to gank other nations and that gives no pvp marks. For upgrades its good idea but not for ships for now. Let people that buy the game sail the ships they really bought the game for please. Know one buys naval action because of the grind for pvp marks to sail a ship. They buy it because of the great battles they see on youtube with proper ships. Please dont force us to sink newbies doing missions and the worst thing is WE TAKE EVERYTHING from them because they want to play a sailing GAME. The players I killed today were left with no ship, no gold and a basic cutter for restarting all over. Why should I feel bad about killing 3 surprises a 3v2? It is a game and not a life and we should be able to simply make ships with mats. The cannon costs are ok but the mats to craft them should be easily be obtainable without the need to sail 1 hour. A nation like GB starting with no coal is a joke.  If the grind is to much for a player with 2500 hours like myself it has to be to much for everyone. 

PVP marks are for sale in Gustavia for 25k each. So yes, a causal player can do it with trade and production/crafting even without any pvp.

The set back of having your ship sunk early on, especially with the heavy prices of cannons are tough, though.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Surprise is a popular ship.  You lose one and are back in Basic Cutter.

How many battles you have to fight in Basic Cutter to be back in business?

13?

Newish guy, 30 minutes each?  = 390 minutes.

+ Repair kits.

[Koltes]

6 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

I was in a couple of pvp battles today and did a good job grinding marks. I could have build 1 connie with the marks if I wanted to. Can someone explain to me why a ship like a Connie should require pvp? A casual player will never get the marks they need to build a ship because they simple will not be competitive and they will be forced to gank other nations and that gives no pvp marks. For upgrades its good idea but not for ships for now. Let people that buy the game sail the ships they really bought the game for please. Know one buys naval action because of the grind for pvp marks to sail a ship. They buy it because of the great battles they see on youtube with proper ships. Please dont force us to sink newbies doing missions and the worst thing is WE TAKE EVERYTHING from them because they want to play a sailing GAME. The players I killed today were left with no ship, no gold and a basic cutter for restarting all over. Why should I feel bad about killing 3 surprises a 3v2? It is a game and not a life and we should be able to simply make ships with mats. The cannon costs are ok but the mats to craft them should be easily be obtainable without the need to sail 1 hour. A nation like GB starting with no coal is a joke.  If the grind is to much for a player with 2500 hours like myself it has to be to much for everyone. 

While I'm all against grinding ships in order to level the ship you want to sail I don't think that your point is completely fair.
1. You don't have to earn PVP Marks to build the ship. You can always just buy the ship from other people, which what I was doing for good 5 months before I hit 50 lvl crafter;
2. You don't have to sail 4th rate or above to experience PVP. In fact the most exciting pvp in the OW comes in 5th rate package

Secondly, while would you feel bad fighting and winning? When you are fighting newbs you are giving them a chance to learn. Experience the thrill. If there would not be anything at stake there would be no thrill. As for loosing ships they will learn fast enough to sail what they can afford to lose.

Risk of losing a lot and great rewards is what will make this game shine

 

 

34 minutes ago, admin said:

The good problem is raised by @HachiRoku above and below. Players should not feel bad about sinking others

They should not, but its not the game's fault. Its ok to lose pixels. When newbs will finally learn few things, apply them to practice and finally see good results their happiness will be 1000 times more than if their previous loses where more like "meh, whatever"

Right now because no one have any wealth to share and its a pond with sharks of course the competition is great. However few weeks later newbs will be given shit for free again.
I have tought so many new players right there in the battle instance and plenty have admitted that have learned more in this one battle with me than sailing for 2-3 months.

The community will get it sorted when its ready. Please don't make the game less risky. We will adjust. We always have

[victor]

3 minutes ago, koltes said:

 great rewards is what will make this game shine

 

Correct. But the problem is that - after the patch - this game seems to give good rewards just for ONE playstyle: OS PVP brawls (and - but just in terms of gold - trading of IA generated goods).

Missions and IA hunting are now really very poorly rewarded (and crafting everything but cannons seems to be not that appealing as well).

One track MMO games never went too far in terms of new players. You can indeed have a very steep learning curve (EVE online i.e., looking at your portrait) but you shall give the new player a lot of (farily rewarding) things to do while they are learning the game and choosing the playstyle they prefer. EVE started super hardcore pvp (and full loot) only, but after the big blockade thing and other problems CCP decided to make the game easier and more PVE oriented in order to increase and keep also the casual playerbase.

Giving something more to casuals does not harm your gameplay, so it would be a win win scenario.

[Koltes]

6 minutes ago, victor said:

Correct. But the problem is that - after the patch - this game seems to give good rewards just for ONE playstyle: OS PVP brawls (and - but just in terms of gold - trading of IA generated goods).

Missions and IA hunting are now really very poorly rewarded (and crafting everything but cannons seems to be not that appealing as well).

One track MMO games never went too far in terms of new players. You can indeed have a very steep learning curve (EVE online i.e., looking at your portrait) but you shall give the new player a lot of (farily rewarding) things to do while they are learning the game and choosing the playstyle they prefer. EVE started super hardcore pvp (and full loot) only, but after the big blockade thing and other problems CCP decided to make the game easier and more PVE oriented in order to increase and keep also the casual playerbase.

Giving something more to casuals does not harm your gameplay, so it would be a win win scenario.

I think Missions and AI will be worked on after PVP shit will be sorted after this patch. I think we can agree that this patch was all about PVP and it brought lost of changes that needs to be tested and nailed. Once this is done they will give us some good economy, crafting and missions I'm sure.

[victor]

1 minute ago, koltes said:

I think Missions and AI will be worked on after PVP shit will be sorted after this patch. I think we can agree that this patch was all about PVP and it brought lost of changes that needs to be tested and nailed. Once this is done they will give us some good economy, crafting and missions I'm sure.

I hope this happens before too many casual players decide to leave the game. That's my concern.

Edited May 28, 2017 by victor

[The Spud]

Maybe they should have some reward system in place that solely caters to the new players. Like first 7th rate AI sunk, get X amount of gold or XP, first PvP kill X amount of gold or XP, etc... Would be much more rewarding and would give more to those who need a bit of a boost to get up and running in this game. 

[Fellvred]

I think the best way of helping new players get used to the combat would be to avoid the 1v1 vs ai they have for their 1st battles at the moment. 

Spawn all new characters in an area of the map only navigable by the basic cutter, such as the pacific coast or a couple of special free ports etc, and let the newbies jump into fully open 25v25 battles (with very limited rewards). When they level up or feel comfortable with the combat they can travel (teleport) to their respective capitals and start to learn the OW side of the game. Beyond level 2 or 3 there would be no further rewards in the area but they could still train there before moving out.

Sometimes we forget how different the control system is compared to most other games out there and how long it can take some ppl to get used to it.

[Grundgemunkey]

2 hours ago, admin said:

dark souls 3 (pretty casul game) throws you into the room with the first boss in 3-4 mins of gameplay. You cannot exit that room and die approximately 3 to 25 times depending on your knowledge of previous games. You cannot skip that boss. If you dont pass him you cannot play the game furhter. 

Cutter can solo lvl 4 missions when leveled up.   Midshipman missions are not a problem as they are easy once you learn.  

The good problem is raised by @HachiRoku above and below. Players should not feel bad about sinking others

i got that game  i did die about 10 times I have not played it since ...

[Grundgemunkey]

16 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I find extremely hard to keep running my economy with the great money sink that mining is. And the ressources are for the clan so I cant sell them.

Harvest 800 of iron ore costs me about 65000 gold, and I have 4 other mines/forests. Im almost always with no gold at all, if I lose any of my ships Im probably going to bankruptcy.

dont have the same problem  i dont need to mine or harvest anything since we have no coal and no one in natiion seems to have any cannot craft anything worth having

[Hethwill]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Players should not feel bad about sinking others

This is very important, believe it or not.

The opposite as well. Understand why the loss happens and what could be done to prevent it.

 

[Neptune]

Just saying it's not always easy to prevent losing a ship. As for me I was grinding to get guns for a surprise for a few hours and when I finally got into one and was working on getting repairs I got ganked outside of my capital. And how would I avoid that? I dunno not play the game I guess? Start up is a problem. 

[Grundgemunkey]

Just now, Intrepido said:

Get some coal, there are several ports like Barahona, which is quite close to Jamaica.

how,,,,, cannot mine it its enemy ..cannot buy it none for sale ..i dont seem to be able to make a contract ..says i cant put up a contract in enemy port

believe me tried ...sailed all the way from kpr to cartegena  last night  nearly 2 hours sail  and 2 hrs back ...there was nothing ...

we attacked santiago  yesterday spaninsh had longs we had mediums ..they just demasted us .... they got pvp and rvr points that means they can build better ships  we lost an indefat that cant be replaced

i would imagine with the pvp/ rvr  points they are getting they are building connies and aggas .. we cant even build longs for inde

so the dilema is the more we attack the stronger they get the weaker we get ...

im all for making pvp and rvr .... but give us a chance ..we are damned if we do damned if we dont at the moment

 

 

[Anne Wildcat]

I'm definitely not new to the game and I still struggle with the lowest level mission in a basic cutter. ? I should try it more but basically I avoid it.  What I do for fun is search for PVP in my basic cutter (yes, PVP, please don't take that away as suggested in another thread) or hit AI trader brigs,  I also suggest please bring back AI trader lynxs and cutters back to the game.  Point being, there are ways for a new player to make money and level up other than missions.

Edit: Hit an AI trader brig the other day and got lucky getting a historical artifact which sells for more than 80k.  Got outposts and buildings set up

[Serk]

British do have Manzanilla as a coal port that is quite close to their capital.

 

Another option might be to provide all nation with at least one port where coal is put on auction, but in small quantities. But you then need to capture a port allowing a coal mine if you wish to produce coal yourself (and you'll need to to sustain any real war economy.)