Faith

[PIerrick de Badas]

false feature for me. Much more to do like spirit/moral than focusing on faith

[Ned Loe]

there can only one Religion abord oared ships and galeys.

King Wheyland the third

LoL! Epic

[Crankey]

For those captains preferring just the articles of war and a quick dozen strokes of the cat for the last crewman to assemble for 'church' of a Sunday no doubt your crew will be particularly fierce during a boarding combat (All those floggings and officers stood behind them with loaded pistols) +10% effect.

 

But those with faith in their veins will probably stand and service their guns more stoically as a result of their 'faith' +2.5% reload effect. +2.5% sail drill.

 

These are small tweaks that give opportunity for slight variations rather than everyone know the exact ability of our opponents ships.a small variation in effect. Yes its a bit of roleplay with a very small difference in ship fighting skills.

 

Just a sample not a particular request. Open your minds, feel the "faith". Don't forget this is CERTAINLY NOT World of Tanks, it isn't just 1 battle queue fight it then queue again for another, though I'm sure for those wanting a shallow game that will indeed be available.

 

Leave game additions like faith, economy and role play available for those who want it, ignore it (don't deny it) if you don't

[Baggywrinkle]

Wow, bold to throw the community such a can of worms - good and interesting move devs

Battle module: No place for religion. Not for any 'anti' reason, I just don't see how to get it to fit. Stats boosts/nerfs turn it into a numbers thing, and stop it meaning anything whilst remaining divisive. Morale impact is dubious either way, the modern idea is nice that it would make sailors feel better...but damned if I've ever got a morale boost when sailing with folk of the cloth, or if I've read of it.

The poor buggers were superstitious for a reason...

Open World: Maybe a place here: a transported missionary may start a successful mission that, if well supported with supplies and protection, may start to convert the local population. This would be bad news for the existing rulers - risk of religious insurrection - but good for your merchants who might get favourable rates...

I'd also absolutely love to see it have a 'realistic' impact on the world - not seeing fishing fleets out in the English Channel on Sat/Sun ("It's a sin to be at sea on a Sunday, but sacrilege to shoot a trawl").

[Balsafer]

Religion played a part yes and if it is implemented it should affect crew moral only. I'm not sure how religion affected wars though were there cardinals that were power hungry and have a their own vision on how the world should be? 

 

Another way could implement it is have religion as a reputation do good things be rewarded, do evil things get punished somehow? 

[Crimson Sands Gaming]

I think a Poll is needed to better gauge the yes/no

[Tom Pullings]

For those captains preferring just the articles of war and a quick dozen strokes of the cat for the last crewman to assemble for 'church' of a Sunday no doubt your crew will be particularly fierce during a boarding combat (All those floggings and officers stood behind them with loaded pistols) +10% effect.

 

But those with faith in their veins will probably stand and service their guns more stoically as a result of their 'faith' +2.5% reload effect. +2.5% sail drill.

 

These are small tweaks that give opportunity for slight variations rather than everyone know the exact ability of our opponents ships.a small variation in effect. Yes its a bit of roleplay with a very small difference in ship fighting skills.

 

Just a sample not a particular request. Open your minds, feel the "faith". Don't forget this is CERTAINLY NOT World of Tanks, it isn't just 1 battle queue fight it then queue again for another, though I'm sure for those wanting a shallow game that will indeed be available.

 

Leave game additions like faith, economy and role play available for those who want it, ignore it (don't deny it) if you don't

 

The interface and larger game experience is certainly not WoT, and I'm thankful for that. But battle mechanics are battle mechanics, and introducing variations of the sort you suggest into the actual battle mechanics are arbitrary and grounded in sweeping generalizations without basis.  If we are going to introduce such arbitrary differences based on sweeping generalizations, then it makes much more sense, to me, to do so on the basis of longevity.  Crews that have fought together for extended periods could receive bonuses that reflect their practiced and likely superior gunnery and sailing skills.  

 

"faith in their veins..."    Indeed.  I want my crew to have ice water in theirs.  We might as well just generalize that crews with faith look toward their reward in the afterlife and thus have a more fatalistic attitude, believing that God will decide the battle no matter how they perform and we should subtract 2.5% from their fighting ability.  

[Cannonball]

Sure, anything to make the game more "deep" is good by me.

 

-Cannonball

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

For those captains preferring just the articles of war and a quick dozen strokes of the cat for the last crewman to assemble for 'church' of a Sunday no doubt your crew will be particularly fierce during a boarding combat (All those floggings and officers stood behind them with loaded pistols) +10% effect.

 

But those with faith in their veins will probably stand and service their guns more stoically as a result of their 'faith' +2.5% reload effect. +2.5% sail drill.

 

These are small tweaks that give opportunity for slight variations rather than everyone know the exact ability of our opponents ships.a small variation in effect. Yes its a bit of roleplay with a very small difference in ship fighting skills.

 

Just a sample not a particular request. Open your minds, feel the "faith". Don't forget this is CERTAINLY NOT World of Tanks, it isn't just 1 battle queue fight it then queue again for another, though I'm sure for those wanting a shallow game that will indeed be available.

 

Leave game additions like faith, economy and role play available for those who want it, ignore it (don't deny it) if you don't

 

The bigger problem still lies in that most crews weren't mono-faith, especially not once the ship had been out of home waters. I think the entire concept of faith giving you bonuses is far too complex to implement properly and realistically without making it "magic", and that the time spent trying to create something like that mechanic can be far better spent on other things.

[Grim DeGrim]

What is faith if morale is not considered magic.

 

The source of strong morale can come from:

 

• "battle toughness" (eg, TomPullings idea for duration sailed together)
• Loss of life
• Winning a battle
• Having their captain
• Good weather versus bad weather
• Even or Advantaged odds
• Faith (modifier is the same for all ships/players in game, unless a captain chooses modify it with with "man of faith" as example).

 

Having a faith modifer is not such a stretch given that other modifers for crew and ship have been recommended:

 

Commissioned officers:

Captain (the Player): the most senior officer aboard the vessel. [Bonus to: crew loyalty, crew discipline, crew morale, Navigation, Sailing performance]
Lieutenant (named NPC): Organisation of the ship and supervision of the crew [Bonus to crew discipline]

Warrant Officers (named NPCs):

Master: Navigation (picking the best course to sail) [Shorten travel times, decrease chances for bad weather]
Surgeon: Healing the sick/wounded, preventing diseases [Attempt to heal the wounded/sick, lessen chance for sickness/epidemic]
Boatswain: Sailing performance (and safety in bad weather) [Bonus to sailing speed, reduce damage in bad weather]
Carpenter: Keeping the yards, masts, spars and hull in optimal shape; repair them if damaged [Reduce wear and tear, repair damage].
Gunner: Keeping the guns and smallarms in optimal shape [Bonus to gunnery].

Petty Officers (named NPCs ?):

Sailmaker: Keeping sails, canvas work, lines and ropes in optimal shape; repair them if damaged [Reduce wear and tear, repair damage].
Cook: Fill the bellies of all those hearty seamen [Bonus to morale and lessen chance of sickness (if enough food)].
Master-at-arms: Coordinate hand-to-hand combat [Bonus to boarding actions, bonus to crew discipline?].

SOURCE:  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/554-officers-crew-and-their-skills/

 

It surely is not a stretch that there can be an officer position associated with morale.  EG, a man of faith.  If officer slots are limited, and players need to choose how they modify...bob is your uncle.

 

My last post on the topic  

 

 

[Grim DeGrim]

I promise...

[Mirones]

Father forgive me for the Gains that i am making

 

 

[maturin]

Must be irritating acoustics in there. You can hear every little grunt from that guy benching.

[SirAdmiralBark]

Hmm... Well this is interesting. I will say that Faith did play a major role in the 18th Century. However I will say that there needs to be a very distinct line between Faith and Morale. It is fine to have faith, everyone has faith. If you don't then when you say I believe in X, (X being the condition of what ever the hell you want) then you have faith because faith is the ability to have full belief in a subjective certainty. Morale is the ability to have heighten spirit in what you believe in. Anyway that was that tangent.

 

To the original topic, ought it be a part of Naval Action? Well if this is suppose to be a realistic feeling game in the 18th century I have no issues with having religion in the game, though does it need to be part of a major role in a player controlled community (META TALK ABOUT OPEN WORLD)? No I think that it is redundant and would cause flame wars with in the game. I would say that the nationality of said player is significant enough that religion can be left out of the equation. One can argue that religion did play a major role and should be incorporated in the game though here is the catch, although naval action, when it is open world, want to embody the 18th century experience, and players must choice either the big three (Theist, Agnostic, Atheism) it would cause unnecessary tension in the player community where there will be flame wars about god existence or why you believe. Just having the entitlement of being in/apart of said nation of an individuals choice should be enough to adequately suite the role playing experience.

[thomas aagaard]

What A player believes should not matter how he or she play a computer game.

Iam no nazi, but I have played the germans in a world war two game.
Iam not a Catholic but do play Catholic states in medieval games... or muslim states for that matter. And I don't believe in the Force...

 

Again lots of other games have religion i them with out it being a problem... so that is not a good reason for not adding it.

 

In my view the question of developer manpower is much more relevant. Do adding religion make the game better and how much, compared to adding more ships, a larger map, better xxxxx.. 
And I don't believe so.

[Dino.707]

This is still a game and not really intended to mirror real life.  The idea is to make it complicated enough to stand out from a arcade style game, but at the same time make it enjoyable and fun to play.  I think if one wanted to, they could pay for a priests blessing on the ship before leaving dock to receive a morale boost, but that should be the extent of it.

[Sir Madoc]

As a Christian myself I say not because if you misrepresent our faith or other religions it could cause offense to the player.

[Rutger Van Hoorn]

Implementing religion/faith will be opening up a big can of worms, similar to slavery/race and politics.

Yes, religion has to be in-game as it was an integral part of the era, but I would hope not as more than background/art/NPC-element rather than being an actual faction or form of choice that players have to make.

 

Even without all that, I'm not wild about being forced (or even having the choice) to join some kind of special-ops religious team/faction and become a silly Crusader or Jihadist.

There's enough political rivalries that can be made up without religion. And going further than political would just add "magic".

[Hethwill]

Faith should be used as a secondary mechanic.

 

Specific missions and opportunities should be linked to Faith, like transport, supply, and even punishment sorties but the mechanic should not interfere with the big Nation game level.

 

So Catholic aligned captains should have access to Faith missions that others won't. You get the idea.

[Sin Khan]

Faith and religion played a huge role in the society and the fabric of life in 18 century. Do you think faith and religion have place in Naval action? If yes in what form?

 

I am sorry admin, but this was a different age. In today's age you are putting your company at risk to legal problems by including religion in the game. Sadly, today's age is what Archbishop Fulton Sheen termed the end of Christendom. Too many people are atheist who play these games. The very nature of computer gaming itself is anti-religious. Playing a computer game goes against almost all religious teachings of the big three religions. As Christ said, "Cast not your pearls before swine." So, do not include religion in the game because the people who play this game are the irreligious people of the world anyway. Why do you think they so desperately wanted slave trading in this game?

 

Admin I think you need to prepare yourself for the fact that creating games is putting yourself squarely in the midst of the criminally minded, atheistic and irreligious world. They play games to be able to do in real life what they cannot do, attack other people, take what they own, trade slaves, or whatever other morally corrupt activity they want to do online. Do you not see this? The religious minded would not play this game at all if they actually were following what they were taught. 

 

I think, Admin, that you should really do a ton more polls about the morality of your player base. I think you will actually be shocked by what you find if you carefully word it to be subtly revealing and not overtly disturbing.You will find your player base absolutely morally corrupt.

[SirWili]

Edit: ^??? You call us immoral on what basis? And why do you have a flaming ship under your post? Would you shoot at your neighbours with cannons? Sorry for that, but I thought that I noticed doublestandards within your comments.

Ontopic: Sure. Get the religional factions in to the game. It would make good drama as Sin Khan was first to prove. Lots of historical bloody wars and plots to get the missions for the game.

Nothing like receiving a command to defend the glorious teachings of buddha from crossbarers.

Or fighting for the true christianity against the wrong kind of christianity. That would be my most favorite role to play.

The diplomacy and religional factions should be just as cunning, abusive and bloodthirsty as they have been in the real world. No polishing, no blaming, just historical events.

For religious members of the gaming society it would be great to act according to their beliefs and join the religional faction which presents their real life beliefs. Or take a walk on the wild side and look how it was on the other team at that time.

@maturin; who do you mean, me?

[maturin]

*roll eyes*

Someone has never played a strategy game before in his life. Anyhow, you've perfectly described the spiritual identity of the 18th century jack tar.

If you want to play a game with 'moral' NPCs in it, I recommend Euro Choir Boy Simulator 2013. Just watch out for the bishop.

And leave your embarassing persecution complex at home.

[KillBox]

Another hot button topic gone wrong - who'd have thought?

 

Sin Kahn (interesting name there), you need to come to terms with the fact that Religion and Morality are not the same thing.  In fact, these two concepts are usually much further apart than anyone will admit.

 

The "Immorality" you describe is not a result of a lack of Religion - it's called "Escapism", to want and need to imagine one self in a space and time where morality and consequence do not exist but for it's representation in the game's rules.  We are here to discuss that representation.  The outliers - those individuals who troll and bait and goad online are victims of their own GIFT (look it up on know your meme), and it is again not a result of religion, but the result of idiots having the luxury of anonymity and an audience with no responsibility or culpability.

 

In fact, your insistence that you are somehow a moral paragon because you are Religious betrays those who've bled and died for your Religion and your right to practice it so openly, but I digress.

 

TL;DR - Morality =/= Religion

[Tom Pullings]

*sigh*

 

I believe the admins have a clear answer to their question now!  

[Johny Reb]

Holy Cow Sin Khan! Are you serious or is that a troll post?

 

I guess you are "criminally minded, atheistic and irreligious" as you are here.

 

This could just be a case of projection. He is all the things he accuses the community of being and therefore assumes everyone else here must share the same sociopathic tendencies. Who knows?