RNG Crafting

[Sir David Green]

I have heard a few people bring up the subject of RNG crafting and how it is bad for the game, especially with DLC ships. I propose two possible solutions. Make it so you can guarantee a higher rarity of ship through crafting materials or an increased RNG chance of getting one through buyable items. Either make it so you invest more resources into a ship to get the quality of ship you want (like for a guaranteed purple you would have to put in 1.25x more wood and maybe 2x for gold, and for specific add ons you want, like for 'cramped' you'd have to fork over more hemp); or make a RNG increaser buyable from the admiralty with doubloons or combat medals (for non-outrageous prices) that will make it so your guaranteed at least a purple but also have a 30% chance of a gold. Maybe even have AI drop them at some frequency for specific rate groups of ships (I.E 4-5th, 1-3th, 6-7th). At least something along those lines. 

 

[Beeekonda]

1 hour ago, Sir David Green said:

I have heard

a few people

bring up the subject

<insert line here>

and how it is bad for the game

especially with DLC ships

 

Everyone has an equal chance of getting a ship better than a basic one, so why change it?

 

[Vizzini]

back when we had resources readily available, many players were crafting lots of ships in the hope of attaining purples and golds. This in turn made them sell their normal blue types on the open market. The trickle down effect worked ok. Ships were plentiful

 

either have a random chance in a capturable port or make everybody get blue only. I see no merit in changing a system which at least gives a chance of creating a better ship for a lucky soul and another lucky soul might find a ship on sale that the crafter didn't want.

 

Imagine having a crafting perk which gave a higher % chance of crafting a better ship ? How many players would have to buy a crafting alt just for that ?  That good for the game ? More alts or more benefits to players able to pay more ?

 

[Jan van Santen]

Crafting once had more immersion (ship parts), more meaning (better ships) and a fair chance on quality (golden coins)

All that needs to be done is a return to that.

Now it just feels like dumping expensive ressources into the  rng bin.

 

[Sir David Green]

2 hours ago, Beeekonda said:

 

Everyone has an equal chance of getting a ship better than a basic one, so why change it?

 

 

I just think it would be nice for the newer players to be able to get a ship that isn't blue quality, I sure know that I have never made something that isn't blue. But maybe that's because I don't want to spam out oak/oak ships and want to make ones out of decent woods that take a somewhat long while to acquire if your not in a big clan that can buy them with your spare 50k doubloons. 

It would just be a nice addition so if you want a ship that has more than three slots after some bad RNG, for the price of a few thousand doubloons or ten or so combat medals.

Also, I apologize for not clarifying what I meant in the post by the problem with DLC ships. Some people have been complaining about the fact DLC ships can just be any wood type you want. Not only can they get a ship with rare woods every day, but they also basically can try their hand at getting a rare ship every day. So players are sinking or selling their Pandoras and Rattvisans each day to try to get a goldy. People off of that are suggesting that rare woods should be made well... less rare, so I think it's reasonable to suggest making the crafting RNG less RNG.

Credit to Mr. Doran for the following:

Edited April 14, 2019 by Sir David Green

[Tiedemann]

The RNG crafting is fine as it is imo. Much more fun to craft a ship now and it forces players out of the capital to craft. Also the RNG is only a bonus, there is no risk of crafting lower quality ship that fine/blue. And as mentioned the rich crafters where flooding the ship markets with fine ships, while trying to craft a golden ship. This is extremely good for the game!

We have had what your suggesting in the past, and there is a reason it was dropped. The clans that has the most resources at their disposal will only craft purple and gold ships, while the casual and new players will sail lower quality ships. This will enhance the difference between veterans and new players/casuals even further.. For new players this will seam unfair and imo it is not a good for the game.

HISTORY LESSON (I'm old so some details might be wrong)
Back in the day we used notes to increase the crafting level of the ship we built. Copper/bronze- notes for for 6. -7. rates, silver notes for 5. - 4. rate and gold notes for 3. - 1. rates. This would guarantee a better build quality, but with some RNG still there that could increase or reduce the ships build quality with +/- 1 level.
1 note would buff the ship from basic up to common/green, 2 notes up to fine/blue, 3 notes up to master craft/purple and 4 notes up to Excellent/gold. The result was that we only crafted ships with 4x notes available. Because of the RNG you could risk crafting a master craft/purple ship, even if you used 4 notes, but that was unlucky. Most of the time you got what you "ordered".

I do not want to go back there, I much more prefere what we have now. My only issue with crafting is the permits needed for the small ships and frigates, + that it is difficult to access the good woods. 

 

[van der Clam]

3 hours ago, Beeekonda said:

Everyone has an equal chance of getting a ship better than a basic one, so why change it?

DLC Buyer's chance to craft a worthy ship = 100%

Crafter's chance to build a worthy ship = 25%, wait no...this time 2%, wait no...this time 14%, wait no....this time 1%. No matter what level of crafter he is....no matter how many ships he has crafted....no matter how many of the same ship he has built.....he still gets RNG to ruin his day.

This kind of RNG is actual real male bovine excrement. Not only this, but add to it the danger and time and materials a crafter has to put into building a ship with good woods just for it to shit you out a 3/5 turd??? So now the crafter has to do it all over again just to build another 3/5 turd???just to do it all over again for another 3/5 turd. It makes more sense to to cap a NPC turd.

Meanwhile, the DLC Buyer has built 1 ship a day with precisely the woods needed to survive with a possible 3/5 build. Unlimited woods make any DLC ship worthy, no matter the quality.

We need the ability to reduce RNG with crafting levels. The higher we level up the less RNG can shit on us.

[Slim McSauce]

I think I have a better idea. You can keep the RNG but I would add items that you can add to ships to improve their quality through some type of refit. How these would be acquired could be through bottle, gold chest, or a very expensive admiralty item, something like 50k doubloons for the basic 4/random refit and 75k doubloons for 5/5 gold and refit. Not only does that make it an option it makes that option available to everyone through many ways, not just one. It would be one of the bigger investments in the game, and a worthy one in my opinion. After all everyone want to improve their ships, and not everyone want's to have dedicate themselves to crafting for it.
 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

Why not have a rating system for crafter's similar to the promotional system?  For instance a Crafter can build entry level ships that cater to new and junior players, Shipwrights who build for mid level players and Master Shipwrights who build high end PVP and PB ships to the highest standard.

Each level crafts all ships but craft better ships as their rate gets higher, and, can get higher profits by using better materials.  These shipwrights could be supplied by traders and ordnance manufacturers of a matching level  all of whom can also sell their products to the Admiralty or privately in the shops as well.

This would put high value cargo's as well as general trade on the Open Water, offer an incentive for more genuine piracy when Pirates intercept then sell onward or use those cargo's  and introduce more realistic commerce warfare by naval forces bringing the game more in line with the functions of pirates, privateers, raiders and navy's while increasing the value of the ports where they operate.

 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Why not have a rating system for crafter's similar to the promotional system?  For instance a Crafter can build entry level ships that cater to new and junior players, Shipwrights who build for mid level players and Master Shipwrights who build high end PVP and PB ships to the highest standard.

Because eventually in the same way we all end up Rear Admirals after a a month or two of playing, everyone would be master crafters, and then there would be the argument as to why even have the difference and just make every ship 5/5 because that's what will end up happening after no time, and there would be no more at play.

[Serk]

I don't know. After a while, everyone will have become a master shipbuilder and you'll only find high end ships on the seas. I'm fine with the RNG for exceptionnal ships. What I don't like is the randomness in what ship you can hope to sail (Random permit drops).

I personnaly enjoyed the post 2017-wipe harder economy. IMO, what wasn't working back then was the removal of teleports, ships two and a few other things. I still think it is the economy (either in material, crew or high cost for permits) that should still be the main wall to sailing powerfull lineships, not randomness. 

But I'm afraid that ship has sailed and won't come back, now that DLC ship allows one to completly avoid the economic aspect of the game yet stay competitive in PVP-RVR.

I don't know if it has been done already, but at least I would review woods stats to make sure oak-oak ships ar emore than a match in combat vs LO-WO or TEAK-WO built. Especially with the new damage models and absence of economy.

I mean, why has oak planking a speed penalty compared to heavier, thicker white oak planking? Giving oak a crew survivability bonus is fine only if crew cost actually matter. It doesn't right now.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Serk

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Serk said:

I don't know. After a while, everyone will have become a master shipbuilder and you'll only find high end ships on the seas. I'm fine with the RNG for exceptionnal ships. What I don't like is the randomness in what ship you can hope to sail (Random permit drops).

by this logic we might aswell have all ships available in store for 0 reals because quoting alot of people "everyone will have the "Insert item here"  in x weeks" anyway. Same with upgrades and knowledge books

[van der Clam]

Level 7 crafter doesn't have to have 100% RNG to make the ship exactly as he wants. I'm just advocating for a better RNG percent.

• Level 1 crafter = 10% chance for better than 3/5
• Level 2 = 20%
• Level 3 = 30%
• Level 4 = 40%
• Level 5 - 50%
• Level 6 = 75%
• Level 7 = 85%

Make it even better by having a bonus percent added for each time you craft the same rate ship....or same ship might be better. Make this bonus be 5% or something each time you craft that same ship..or rate...who knows, but variety will happen.

[Snoopy]

Less RNG would be better for crafters if they feel threatened by the DLC ships. If you could control (at least to some degree) which special attribute 'procs' and how many slots you will get you can create quite a bit of demand me thinks.

[van der Clam]

15 minutes ago, Snoopy said:

Less RNG would be better for crafters if they feel threatened by the DLC ships. If you could control (at least to some degree) which special attribute 'procs' and how many slots you will get you can create quite a bit of demand me thinks.

As a crafter, I am not threatened by the DLCs, but rather the rare woods. Being able to add only 3 mods to an oak ship just does not cut it against rare woods with 3/5 mods. Now imagine it against a rare woods 5/5 mods. 

But then add a DLC 5/5 rare woods into the equation and it multiplies the risk when facing it. Yet still, I have no real quarrel with DLCs.....unless they take my suggestion for leveling RNG as a DLC. Then, I'd probably quite. lul

[AeRoTR]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

Level 7 crafter doesn't have to have 100% RNG to make the ship exactly as he wants. I'm just advocating for a better RNG percent.

• Level 1 crafter = 10% chance for better than 3/5
• Level 2 = 20%
• Level 3 = 30%
• Level 4 = 40%
• Level 5 - 50%
• Level 6 = 75%
• Level 7 = 85%

Make it even better by having a bonus percent added for each time you craft the same rate ship....or same ship might be better. Make this bonus be 5% or something each time you craft that same ship..or rate...who knows, but variety will happen.

Starts with %3 and goes up to a maximum of %15-20. 

This way still rng but still very rewarding

[van der Clam]

1 minute ago, AeRoTR said:

Starts with %3 and goes up to a maximum of %15-20. 

This way still rng but still very rewarding

I was just puking out numbers. I have no idea what the current RNGs are. I just want less effecting my crafting as I gain crafting XP.

[Angus MacDuff]

5 hours ago, van der Decken said:

DLC Buyer's chance to craft a worthy ship = 100%

Crafter's chance to build a worthy ship = 25%, wait no...this time 2%, wait no...this time 14%, wait no....this time 1%. No matter what level of crafter he is....no matter how many ships he has crafted....no matter how many of the same ship he has built.....he still gets RNG to ruin his day.

This is the problem with forums.  That statement is simply not true.  Where did your facts come from?? You haven't defined what you consider to be worthy.  Is it a 3/5 ship?  Everyone can do that, and a crafter can build an Endy...Dlc user cant.  Is it because of woods?  Some crafters will have lots of rare woods.  Everyone has the same shot at mods....

[van der Clam]

2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

This is the problem with forums.  That statement is simply not true.  Where did your facts come from?? You haven't defined what you consider to be worthy.  Is it a 3/5 ship?  Everyone can do that, and a crafter can build an Endy...Dlc user cant.  Is it because of woods?  Some crafters will have lots of rare woods.  Everyone has the same shot at mods....

Crafter = player = can build Endy but not DLC ship
DLC buyer = player and buyer = can build Endy and DLC ship
A DLC buyer can also build an Endy

5 hours ago, van der Decken said:

.....Unlimited woods make any DLC ship worthy, no matter the quality.

I meant unlimited rare woods. Is there a chance a DLC ship can come 5/5? Is it repeatable if they sell/break up DLC ship as often as needed to get 5/5? I don't know, because I don;t have any, except the Pandora, and I haven't tried the Mr. Doran thing.

36 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

As a crafter, I am not threatened by the DLCs, but rather the rare woods. Being able to add only 3 mods to an oak ship just does not cut it against rare woods with 3/5 mods. Now imagine it against a rare woods 5/5 mods. 

But then add a DLC 5/5 rare woods into the equation and it multiplies the risk when facing it. Yet still, I have no real quarrel with DLCs.....unless they take my suggestion for leveling RNG as a DLC. Then, I'd probably quite. lul

 

[Jan van Santen]

16 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

  Everyone can do that, and a crafter can build an Endy..

Provided he gets a permit from an admirals or captains chest, which (except in redeemables after pve sercver rollback) never have appeared on PvE server. Idk about PvP server.

So on PvE server the chance to craft an Endy does exist..in theory. Like like the chance of winning the lottery exists.

 

[BallsOfSteel]

Hundreds of hours put into crafting is useless when your end efforts are based on a dice roll. No point in being level 50

[--Privateer--]

Can we just revert crafting back to how it was 4 months ago when shops were full of ships? 😁 The levels don't even need to be changed back, and the craft hours are fine, we just need the permits to be in the admiralty shop and rare woods to go back to how they were.

And the devs can continue with their plan of making all basic materials spawn in one port, people will do enough sailing hauling the rare woods around.

[Sea Archer]

I would really like to roll ship crafting back to 2016, with all the 50 levels and different stages of ship qualitys. Maybe the mats for the quality level should be adjusted, but during that time there was always a ship to had in KPR.

Why not letting all people sail around in gold ship, if they can effort it? The more equal the ships are, the better will be the battles.