Testbed Feedback - Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests

[Tom Farseer]

@admin
Any chance to get more redeemables on the testbed? I heard several people complaining about having to grind stuff in order to test the combat system. Personally I see no reason why you shouldn't just give every new character on the testbed 10 notes of each ship to allow for more extensive testing.

Also, while we're at it, additional funds to pay for guns (a few 100k reals) would be very welcome.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[OjK]

2 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

just give every new character on the testbed 10 notes of each ship to allow for more extensive testing.

Or even unlimited

[Thonys]

54 minutes ago, admin said:

20-30 mins means at least 30 broadsides on the heaviest ship, with turning this number will go up to maybe 40-50 broadsides if you turn well (and opponent lets you).
If you think in terms of broadsides then the 30 min battle will be considered long even by historical standards. 

In short - i am not sure about 40-50 broadsides for 1 duel.

 

True:

when i look at old paintings i do not see much sinking of big wooden ships (wood floots )

what i see more on paintings is burning ships. 

exploding ships (the possibility to fuse a ship on your own command)

captured ships 

burning ships

demasted ships

more smoke what hangs in the battle arena (we need more fire and smoke)

we need more fire possibilities it is an underestimated feature what makes a battle epic

 

more spectacular events is what we need, with more opportunities for the player to engage other players (for instance more mortar ships,(surprise).. we have only one brig in the game what is shooting from one side)

just shooting 50 broadsides is just trouble for the ears.when i look at old paintings i smell the fire on the ships,and cant see the enemy true the smoke

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Thonys

[OjK]

4 minutes ago, Thonys said:

the possibility to fuse a ship on your own command

Please no.
We're not gonna die after such incident, ending our lives.

We'll just take another ship from the docks, which will make intentional explosions a huge grief...

[Thonys]

2 minutes ago, OjK said:

Please no.
We're not gonna die after such incident, ending our lives.

We'll just take another ship from the docks, which will make intentional explosions a huge grief...

well you dont have to take the whole fleet go under with one  exploding vessel 

implosion is possible 

besides that i believe also that capturing 5 rate AI should not be possible building ships should be the thing not getting free ships like a giveaway

only 7th and 6 rate ai should be given for free .

Edited February 12, 2019 by Thonys

[OjK]

@Thonys even preventing Your ships from beeing captured is gonna be griefed as hell.

No, let's keep the suicide detonation for history records, don't bring them to NA

[OjK]

3 minutes ago, Borch said:

It doesnt matter anymore how much crew your cannons take overall from your ship when 2 broadsides can turn opponent ship into a bunch of loose planks.

True. Maybe would be a good change if after some devastating shot, ships would not be going down under water, but just become "disabled"

I'd love to see much more damage to crew, cannons and masts, and much less to actually making ships going underwater. However, that would require also a change in game mechanics, so disabled ships, would not be able to leave the battle while beeing in "disabled" status.

[Thonys]

48 minutes ago, OjK said:

@Thonys even preventing Your ships from beeing captured is gonna be griefed as hell.

No, let's keep the suicide detonation for history records, don't bring them to NA

we can't change history ... just like it never happened or not existing.

let's make losing a ship .. hurt...

give away AI ships are (should) not having value.... and have limited possibilities in battle (one upgrade and one knowledge slot)

Edited February 12, 2019 by Thonys

[Grundgemunkey]

9 hours ago, Intrepido said:

You forget some things

Oceans requires:

Victory marks. You need several port ownerships to produce an ocean every week. Will you be able to afford pvp and rvr oceans? Dont think so.

9.400 doubloons: This requires some time to farm. Ofc not so much as before but still the point is valid.

A shit load of wood, labor hours (if you use labor contracts you will need to farm more doubloons), cannons, reals, extract materials that cost you labor hours and reals ... Only people in quite organized and big clans could afford that his members are always sailing in oceans for their pvp fun.

 

In addition to those, do you really think the actual base speed and sailing profile of oceans will be enough to become ow pvp hunters? 

the cost of a 1st rate isnt prohibitive .... you can buy victory marks for around 40k reals .. they are not expensive .. doubloons are not hard to come by either ... 1  year ago everyone was moaning about s many 1st rates in the game and it wasnt realistic ... people will always play the game how do i stand the best chance of winning and not sinking .. the NA world will be full of 1st rates again ,,,

the actual base speed and sailing profile depends on your ship build ... its easy to build a fir/fir vic .. that does 13/14 knots .. with the ability to 1 OR 2 shot kill a frigate with its fire power it doesnt need to be tanky .. it will also have the speed to evade other 1st rates

the old days of 10 first rates sat outside KPR seal clubbing will be back  ... it wont help new player retention just make them leave for a different reason .. dying at the hands of a le req or a santi .. doent matter you still sink ...

the main problem is this game has been in testing so long ... too many players have reached the top level .. too many have more gold more resources etc etc so that cost doesnt matter

trying to re design the game to help newbies doesnt help beause the experienced guys soon find the new meta and kill the noobs who then quit ....

Edited February 12, 2019 by Grundgemunkey

[OjK]

2 minutes ago, Thonys said:

we can't change history ... just like it never happened or not existing.

let's make losing a ship .. hurt...

But we're not making history. We're not actually sailing the boats.
It's just computer game.

If You want it "realistic" how about after self-detonation Your account is deleted (cause You die) and You start as a new character?
Then - feel free.

Do You get it now?

Edited February 12, 2019 by OjK

[Thonys]

27 minutes ago, OjK said:

But we're not making history. We're not actually sailing the boats.
It's just computer game.

If You want it "realistic" how about self-detonation Your account is deleted (cause You die) and You start as a new character?

Do You get it now?

well if that is the case .

i will explode right next to you in a battle. (for historical sacrifice and for the glory of the nation)

https://historiek.net/wp-content/uploads-phistor1/2013/02/jan-van-speijk-kanonneerboot-560.jpg

to summit up the battles are to "clean"

if you look at old paintings the first thing what shown to you is the turmoil, the fire and devastating and heroic picture of the battle, in general, is shown to you

what we have now is a shootout in nowadays battle rhetoric battlefield methods  ( shooting missiles at each other )

fighting on land in those days were brought to the surface on the water where sol where forts which you have to capture to possess the control of the seas and trade routes. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Thonys

[HachiRoku]

58 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Players spend their good amount of time crafting the one dura ship of the line. 

Because of that it should last in combat a reasonable amount, enough to provide the fun the user was looking for when he began the ship crafting.

1st rate to first rate damage is pretty much perfect on testbed. Have you had the chance to fight any live oak Carthagena ships yet? I personally think we should not discuss this thread until we have this model pvp tested on the live server. Testbed vs ai is useless. Before the server goes live we just need bottom, mid and top section mast buffs. My only worries are the huge hp/broadside weight gaps between ships of equal class. In fairness an endymion and a frigate are far from the same class in real life but for gameplay reasons they should be competitive. Maybe not.... I guess the Endymion, diana, trinco, indefatigable and connie should be a separate class of their own but I would be pointless. 

[huliotkd]

guys, old battles ended in 1 or max 3 broadsides...too many casualties and rigging damage.

masts: the masts are only poles resting on the bottom of the ship and held vertically by the shrouds...

 

if you want to understand how the masts worked, do this experiment in your home:

turn a broom upside down and hold it at the base with your hands, then take off one hand and see how hard it is to hold the broom vertically...this is the effect of losing structure in a ship as we should have ingame. atm, testbed is the most realistic damage model we can have. don't be afraid to get used to new damage, don't be scared to lose ship, don't be afraid to learn to play again, don't be afraid to learn the ROLE OF EACH SHIP you have.

 

 

each ship has its role, a 5th rate is intended to hunt traders or same or smaller frigates and never a superior class...if you do, you can die at 99.9% .  a 1st rate is intended to destroy everything in range so he should not engage nothing faster than himself.

 

@admin are we using the historical thickness? we need a little buff on 1st and 2nd rate thickness if not

[Sea Archer]

2 hours ago, admin said:

20-30 mins means at least 30 broadsides on the heaviest ship, with turning this number will go up to maybe 40-50 broadsides if you turn well (and opponent lets you).
If you think in terms of broadsides then the 30 min battle will be considered long even by historical standards. 

In short - i am not sure about 40-50 broadsides for 1 duel.

I still would like it. The link below shows that frigate action may easily take more than 1 hour of exchanging broadsides with surprisingly low casulties. The ships and especially the rigging will be damaged, but the ship won't sink.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigate_action_of_29_May_1794

 

That is how I would like to have the game. For gameplay reasons not the full hour, but 20-30 min would be great. 

All with leaking only when hits are close to or below the waterline. The effect of leaks might be bigger than now, but pounding the upper parts of the ship shall not cause sinking.

 

[Hethwill]

Manoeuvring the rigging and having the ships to make the intended evolutions took time, wasn't so speedy as we have in combat  hence some battles would be more prolonged.

 

[Sven Silberbart]

3 hours ago, Borch said:

..You're right, there is no more of tanking with bow or stern but no more angling as well when you face higher caliber cannons. This fight is no skill at all. Just show up with the heaviest cannons you can get. ... I'm afraid that this new damage will turn ships with heavier cannons than usual in class their represent into crazy OP ships. Hercules, Endy, Inger not even mentioning fully carro fitted Indefatigable ( fir-fir speed-reload modded nuke ).

Now I understand the goal and I'm up for it but the damage we see now is simply broken. Too big too fast nullyfying any need for skill and proper ship building and what maybe whats most important against everything that NA stand for, too arcade. Feels like Super street fighter alpha combos.

Also, you mentioned somewhere that you got a bit time now after UI and localization. To make this damage right be ready to not only tune the cannons, but also ship stats, crafting mats, prices, RvR mechanics, nations imbalances, ship mods, woods, repairs etc etc. That's how big influence this new damage is going to have on your game.

Sadly it is sooo true.

"Show up with the heavier cannons or die" .. just bad gamedesign

Edited February 12, 2019 by Sven Silberbart

[Zlatkowar]

4 hours ago, huliotkd said:

Wrong! real old battles finish in less than 5 minutes...the big amount of time was needed to get in position to fire and closer to enemy to board, but then...1 broadside and the battle was over...sometimes some captains surrended before 1st shot fired...

If this is the amount of realism you want to see in game then let me tell you something : This game is dead. No one will ever want to spend 1h in OW trying to find a target for a 5 minutes fight. No one. Ever. I hope to see some balance between realism and player engagement.

[Slim McSauce]

You probably will. This combat is the right step, it's actually real and not arcade. Finding pvp is a whole different thing, it's very easy if you don't want to die in 5 minutes don't throw yourself into a scenario where you could die in 5 minutes. As in don't tag a SOL in your lowly frigate unless you're prepared for such an encounter. Eventually, maybe soon we'll get some OW balancer that prevents people from shoving a stick in their own spokes unintentionally. Aside from that the damage is authentic, and you should wait until the rest of the model catches up before writing it off.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Marquês do Bonfim]

The new damage model will make people even more careful in OW, that's for sure. Before, you could engage a 3rd rate on a frigate w/ no problems at all, but now? Hell no. Unless you have more than 1 ship sailing beside you, but other than that, you will and you should be more careful with whom you're battleing with.

[Zlatkowar]

12 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

You probably will. This combat is the right step, it's actually real and not arcade. Finding pvp is a whole different thing, it's very easy if you don't want to die in 5 minutes don't throw yourself into a scenario where you could die in 5 minutes. As in don't tag a SOL in your lowly frigate unless you're prepared for such an encounter. Eventually, maybe soon we'll get some OW balancer that prevents people from shoving a stick in their own spokes unintentionally. Aside from that the damage is authentic, and you should wait until the rest of the model catches up before writing it off.

I am not afraid to lose my ship in 5 minutes, but rather to sink the other one in 3 broadsides. Right now it does feel like it's a "heavier broadside wins" game, which may be somewhat historically accurate, but there's no fun in that. "Realism über alles" is a crap philosophy when it comes to entertainment.

But as you said, it's just one step, let's see what will follow.

[huliotkd]

50 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

If this is the amount of realism you want to see in game then let me tell you something : This game is dead. No one will ever want to spend 1h in OW trying to find a target for a 5 minutes fight. No one. Ever. I hope to see some balance between realism and player engagement.

no, 5 min battle if you do mistakes or think to fight a 1st rate using yuor 5th rate side to side...

[Grundgemunkey]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

No, it is more show up with the apropiate response or be ready to die.

 

Before against a Bellona, in the majority of cases, you only needed 2-3 frigates (hercules for example) to sink it.

Now, against a Bellona, you will require a heavier punch (heavy frigates probably) if you want to sink it.

so how does this aid player retention ?

your saying 2-3 noobs in hercs can sink a bellona ... after changes they cant they need to be further up the promotion ladder ,  and need bigger ships ... I thought this change to damage was to help noobs stay in game .. what your saying it makes it harder

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Grundgemunkey

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

so how does this aid player retention ?

 

I don't think it should have any effect.  Many players (those who read) have the expectation that a 5th rate going against a 3rd rate is suicide.  It certainly never crossed my mind until I saw it happening in this game.  Most new players will accept this without question.  Old players who cannot adapt to change are the only problem.  There will always be a certain amount of turnover with this thing.

[Hethwill]

17 minutes ago, Wraith said:

You keep repeating this like a mantra but you’re forgetting the time compression we have in battle instances. If you’re sticking to your “reality” at the expense of good gameplay ideology then reloads should be even faster.

Sorry for playing the game and having a personal vision

I know the devs do whatever they want, so get off my shoulder. I'm no giant.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

LOL, so we want “authentic” right up until we need to saddle the RoE with BR balancing and all manner of edge case handling just so a few line ship fanboys can feel powerful? 

This is the root of the argument and something that I hope Devs will take into account.  I am a fan of realistic broadsides doing crippling damage to much smaller ships, but that in itself should not be the only thing modified.  As you say, there are many aspects to a naval battle and modding only one puts a serious imbalance into the equation.  They have not addressed the manoeuvrability of the smaller ships with this mod.  A snow with carros will be able to sit behind a 1st rate and destroy it with raking broadsides.