PvP or Prey?

[Old Crusty]

   With all the discussions about safe zones and PvP I would really like to be clear on what exactly people are talking about. I am in my mid fifties and this is my first MMO so I admit I could be ignorant of what people are talking about when they say PvP, or player vs player.

   To me PvP is when you find yourself in a fight against another Player that actually has a chance to beat you. PVP to me is a fight that is a challenge. Their are some PvPers that come to Charleston that I have a lot of respect for. They come in groups of about 2-6 players, sailing fast Bellonas, and the occasional 5th rate. They sit outside the safe zone and wait for a group to form up against them. Sometimes they run because the group that is formed is to big, but usually they fight even when out numbered. Sometimes they lose their ships but usually they get most of their guys away from the fight while sinking USA ships. These guys are good. These guys is what I would call PvPers.

   Then you have the Hunters. Almost all of them come in Le Requins. A few come in Hercules. Some come solo and some come in groups. All of them are looking for someone that they can take down quickly without a chance of them getting hurt. They are not looking for a fight, they are more like a Hunter with  a rifle looking for deer.

   Even though I have respect for The PvPers, I still watch them let Pirates and Prussians and French (oh my!!!!) go right by then up the coast to hunt for their prey. These PvPers only want US blood.

so I ask you, are you a PvPer or a Hunter. Or are you mostly a Trader and therefore Prey?

[z4ys]

I like to hunt. I dislike arena areas. The chase is 3/4 of the whole excitement for me.

[Percival Merewether]

9 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

   Then you have the Hunters. Almost all of them come in Le Requins. A few come in Hercules. Some come solo and some come in groups. All of them are looking for someone that they can take down quickly without a chance of them getting hurt. They are not looking for a fight, they are more like a Hunter with  a rifle looking for deer.

I believe that is the definition of a ganker, not a hunter.

A Hunter is often a solo PvP'er sailing in OW fighting and chasing whatever he comes across from L'Oceans to Trader Brigs - a hunter will usually stay away from capital areas (Safe Zones).

Edited September 4, 2018 by Percival Merewether

[Liq]

I like mobas and similar games. (War thunder, csgo, age of empires,...) 

Thus voted for the second option

[Rabman]

There is no choice, its always both. Take any fight you can win. Even those you can't win, but you can sink a few ships that can catch you and then escape from their line ships.

When you can't get a fight, you need to bait ships, when you can't win straight up, divide and conquer.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Rabman

[Hethwill]

Mimic, as best as possible, the naval warfare of the age of sail whatever the game mechanics.

I favour the corsair, privateer, robber at sea imaginary. Hence i sail a lot looking for prey.

Other pvp routines, more Master&Commander O'Brien style, like happened yesterday late in the game session.

PvP is whenever I want and whenever my enemies want.

 

@Old Crusty the poll options surely look biased, like you cornering the types. I feel discomfortable answering any of those, but ultimately as posted I go hunt for trade convoys.

 

[huliotkd]

both.

by definition , PVP is any player interaction with another player intended to defeat the enemy. 

 

[Spitfire83]

I would class myself as both i sail on open world ALOT sometimes solo sometimes in a small group looking for fights and out of necessity i will tag anything traders or 1st rates i just dont care.

ive been the trader in a impossible fight against 3 or 4 ships and died ive fought 2nd rates solo and won in a 5th rate. Pvp marks are needed for good upgrades etc so i will do what is required to get them.

I had a really fun 1v1 other day both in trincs if every fight could be like that fantastic but the reality is thats not going to happen if i kill a trader i expect to pop into open world to a revenge fleet so maybe 5v1 maybe more, both elements are part of the game.

 

Got to take the rough with the smooth..

[jodgi]

I want challenging and even hard fight against good players. I light up when rediii, Ram Dinark and players of that caliber show up, especially alone. Yesterday Ram outplayed me severely, it was a good night.

I'm not too fussy (any longer) by which mechanics the fight happens as long as it happens. I'm almost completely disenchanted by the hunt as it's a bunch of running 9 out of 10 times.

People say that wolves don't want to fight wolves. There must be different kinds of wolves because even with the current sub-optimal patrol zone setup I keep meeting top dogs there.

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said:

I believe that is the definition of a ganker, not a hunter.

A Hunter is often a solo PvP'er sailing in OW fighting and chasing whatever he comes across from L'Oceans to Trader Brigs - a hunter will usually stay away from capital areas (Safe Zones).

Did you ever see Elephant Hunters looking for Elephants... In Canada? No.

A true hunter (in any definition) looks for preys. And good hunters are those finding more preys.

If preys are in one spot, the hunter will go there. If in another, he'll in the latter.

More preys in capitols? The hunter will go there. My mates and I tag anything possible to be tagged. Period. No ganking. Simple hunting... Especially being usually badly outnumbered (and not to speak about guns involved ratios).

Really: is it possible for you to not insult other players those playstyle you dislike?

I consider mast sniping and whole demasting pure stupid and unreal mechanic. Still I do not call able demasters stupid. I attack the mechanic that makes them doing it. Not them using it. I attack them only when they attack other playstyles.

 

[Old Crusty]

1 hour ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

@Old Crusty the poll options surely look biased, like you cornering the types. I feel discomfortable answering any of those, but ultimately as posted I go hunt for trade convoys.

Ok, I can see that not only am I an MMO rookie, but also a Forum rookie. The poll does not have enough choices for the response. Being able to choose both would be a good option.

   I think my definition of  “Hunter” is actually a Ganker. From what I’m reading, my definition of a PvPer is almost correct, and a Hunter would be the Player that would choose both the options I gave. The Ganker would be the player that I described as a Hunter in the poll.

is this about right?

[Hethwill]

Ouch...

But okay, I take it as it comes. My choice remains, as PvP comes in waves, sometimes the hunter, other times the hunted.

As Pirate Jesus said to his Crew - as you receive, so shall you deliver. My eye for yerr eye and me and you will look awesome wearing eye-patches !

[Percival Merewether]

What is your problem @Licinio Chiavari ? I never mentioined you for christ sake....

1 hour ago, Old Crusty said:

   Then you have the Hunters. Almost all of them come in Le Requins. A few come in Hercules. Some come solo and some come in groups. All of them are looking for someone that they can take down quickly without a chance of them getting hurt. They are not looking for a fight, they are more like a Hunter with  a rifle looking for deer.

THIS is the definition of a ganker - a player who will only fight with no chance of getting hurt

21 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

More preys in capitols? The hunter will go there. My mates and I tag anything possible to be tagged. Period. No ganking. Simple hunting... Especially being usually badly outnumbered (and not to speak about guns involved ratios).

THAT is not, you are putting yourself at great risk - the question of Safe Zones is a different thread and I would appreciate it if we kept it so.

1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said:

A hunter will usually stay away from capital areas (Safe Zones).

I did at NO point rule out the possibility that a hunter can go to capital areas, I have been there myself.. As have many others.

21 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Really: is it possible for you to not insult other players those playstyle you dislike?

The world does not revolve around you Licinio, I made no reference to you - the above metioned ganker could as easily have been sailing a Constituion or Agamemnon. Now... if you have anything further to say; stop hijacking other people's threads and PM me instead.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Percival Merewether

[Licinio Chiavari]

4 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

THIS is the definition of a ganker - a player who will only fight with no chance of getting hurt

In every combat you get hurted. Sometime you got sunk.

Ganking and not being hurt are not linked topics.

5 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

What is your problem @Licinio Chiavari ? I never mentioined you for christ sake....

Which part of "other players those playstyle you dislike". I did not say "insulting me".

AFAIK "ganker" is not a compliment.

7 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

THAT is not, you are putting yourself at great risk - the question of Safe Zones is a different thread and I would appreciate it if we kept it so.

Ganking/Seal clubbing/hunting/fair pvp/ safezone; rules and definitions... Are all interlinked topics.

If you dont get this, it is your error, not mine.

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Ganking and not being hurt are not linked topics.

Now you're just misunderstanding on dogged purpose.

[Nick the cursed]

Pictures are better than words ^^

Sometimes yer the prey, sometimes the hunter and sometimes the hunter become the prey...

Btw, in pvp ya need winners and losers, just have to be happy to win and don't be angry to lose!

[Percival Merewether]

13 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

If you dont get this, it is your error, not mine.

gank (third-person singular simple present ganks, present participle ganking, simple past and past participle ganked)

1. (transitive, Internet, online gaming, slang) To kill much weaker players in an online video game in such a way that they cannot defend themselves. Common methods include attacking in much greater numbers or taking a well-equipped high-level character to assault players in a starting area.

   Our group totally ganked this guy.

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Almost all of them come in Le Requins. A few come in Hercules. Some come solo and some come in groups. All of them are looking for someone that they can take down quickly without a chance of them getting hurt. They are not looking for a fight, they are more like a Hunter with  a rifle looking for deer.

You are correct, I have zero respect for the above menitoned people by @Old Crusty, and I support him 100% in them being disrespectful... I have nothing positive to say about their playstyle.

It is your choice whether to identify with them or not - If you do identify with the above mentioned then I have zero respect and tolerance for you and your fellow comrades. Is that clear enough? I will do everything within my power to convice the Devs that the right way forward is to protect and foster new players so that this game will be successful.

What you do outside starting areas/capitals is your choice and I have no quarrel with that.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Percival Merewether

[Angus MacDuff]

Cant answer that poll.  All that everyone has said.  I hunt alone and attack most...unless its too lop sided.  I caught a guy in 4 Indiamen the other night (he couldn't man them fully).  Last night I got in a fight with a lone Herc (in my Herc) and two of his friends showed up.  Died gloriously.  Then I caught another Herc with an Indiaman in fleet.  Killed the Herc and when I came out (short on reps), Two 5ths were waiting, so I ran away.  It's all good.  Try not to show distain for other player's styles. 

[Hethwill]

Bah, typical OW chance encounter...

Privateer spots trade convoy. Attacks.

More often than not the first chat is something like...

- "Don't you have anything better to do than just attack defenceless traders ?"

...

sigh..

 

 

[vazco]

33 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

Being able to choose both would be a good option.

From what I’m reading, my definition of a PvPer is almost correct, and a Hunter would be the Player that would choose both the options I gave. The Ganker would be the player that I described as a Hunter in the poll.

You could separate two types:

• PvP'er - someone who looks for some even, exciting fights, and possibly glory (which is not supported by the game now - sinking Liquicity/Hachi gives same results as sinking Mighty Mo)
• Hunter - someone who enjoys searching for a prey, and will kill it once he finds it, regardless of odds

Ganker probably goes into a hunter type.

 

There are two types of hunters I'd say - those who use tricks, and those who hunt without them. Those tricks were/are eg:

• hunting in reinforcement zones in ships which can escape reinforcements (Requin)
• peek-a-boo with your ganking friends around free ports
• hiding in battles/logging out (now very rare)
• using alts to spy
• etc.

In the past you could hunt without tricks and it worked well - you would find a few ships per day. In the same time noone would be over-hunted. Today I feel that a true hunter of the past is gone, as you need huge amount of time and patience to catch eg. a trader on the route.

[Angus MacDuff]

I don't hunt in the KPR green zone simply because the shoals of Le Sharks are swimming there.  Lone hunters are also prey.  One day there was a group of Spanish Reqs and another group of Pirate Reqs.  Pity the poor Brits...

[jodgi]

15 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Bah,

Indeed! Even I will tag ANYTHING that crosses my bow. Won't be a gank, tho.

[Rabman]

2 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

Ok, I can see that not only am I an MMO rookie, but also a Forum rookie. The poll does not have enough choices for the response. Being able to choose both would be a good option.

   I think my definition of  “Hunter” is actually a Ganker. From what I’m reading, my definition of a PvPer is almost correct, and a Hunter would be the Player that would choose both the options I gave. The Ganker would be the player that I described as a Hunter in the poll.

is this about right?

It's not black and white, which is what I think most of us like about it. You're sailing along with two friends and encounter a lone fourth rate. You sink it without a thought. Same group sailing along encounters two lineships, you fight it knowing you can probably leave if you screw it up.

IMO, anyone sailing a purpose built ship is a PvP'er, everyone else is sailing cag, LO/WO PB ships or some other such bullcrap not suitable for PvP where speed is life.

In my opinion I think there are four main groups.

PB'ers, who only RvR.

PvP'ers who usually do group pvp, whether its a gank on a lowly captain, a trader or a fairfight, these guys also PB just not exclusively.

Duelists like Liq, Hachi - Will fight anything but prefer 1v1,   

The econ/pve grinders, these guys are bait for everyone else. They trade and kill AI as their main activities.

The safe zone issue is separate from the above. Before there were safe zones everyone gathered in major population centers, MT, LT, C-town/Cabo, KPR/Nevasse, etc. The same is true today, only now there is a protective bubble around these economic centers, player behavior is largely unchanged. They still want action, and sailing off to the far corners of the map won't find you action.

Now you have to leverage the tools and resources available to make a fight happen, safe zone or otherwise. The crux of most of NA's issues are a direct result of population. He who has the highest population will be the focus of most piracy/attacks on sheer numbers alone. For instance in the NA nighttime sail to FR or Willemstad or Christiansted and see how many players you encounter, it'll be almost zero. Now sail to KRP/Belize/CTown/Guatamala and see how many you encounter, 5-15 ships in each location going to some motion of trading, grinding, crafting, etc. 

[Teutonic]

I enjoy and prefer fighting opponents who I would consider better than me. I also prefer the small squad roam over everything else. That is 2-4 players sailing around in 5th/4th rates looking for other players to sink. But I must admit if we find lonely people we will still sink them.

I much rather go to places outside the safe zones, but admittedly it also takes longer to find someone.

I absolutely hate the Requin.

[Licinio Chiavari]

8 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I enjoy and prefer fighting opponents who I would consider better than me. I also prefer the small squad roam over everything else. That is 2-4 players sailing around in 5th/4th rates looking for other players to sink. But I must admit if we find lonely people we will still sink them.

I much rather go to places outside the safe zones, but admittedly it also takes longer to find someone.

I absolutely hate the Requin.

A totally reasoning and honest post ("if we find lonely people we will still sink them").

Then let's the next step: why hating ("absolutely") the Requin?

Because in the end... All this whining (Requin uncounterable, OP, MOAR safezones, truly safe safezones) comes from this: the damned sharks. So again: why?

PS: I have still to remember a ship (and we had far more powerful, dangerous, elitistic and almost uncounterable metas than Requin boarders in NA history) calling a so brutal reaction on forums.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
Typos