Le Req is changing the game!

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Takes 1 drop from a AI grind sold to someone to be able to "redeem" 10 L'Hermiones. Dont' even have to engage in PvP. Look to the game mechanics please.

Mechanics are not human. They have no feelings, nor do they feel any pains. They give plenty of leeway to players to achieve results, by other means rather than the obvious.

o7 laters

 

explain this too me it looks like im missing something here please?

[Hethwill]

Can achieve same results by several means - several mechanics are inplace to provide the player with choices of how to apply their time ( in exchange for no eco/crafting ) to acquire ships.

Capture NPC ships. Can get rare drops that can be xchanged for pvp marks. Can go out and capture enemy ships. Etc... 

DLC ships give complete carefree bypass of economy/crafting other than guns and repairs.

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, dark lord rediii said:

It would have been better to make a santa cecilla, a 3rd and a pavel DLC ships (With like 1 redeem every week). Why? Because they are average in their class and not OP by any means.

While I'm more than fine with average performing imported ships, I'm also a little worried how the OW would change with a massive 3rd/Pavel spam. I'm not saying it would ruin everything, just a tad worried.

If we got a "middle of the road" 12lbs imported frigate I could see that partly "fixing" the negative perception of the herc spam; At the very least by diverting some attention.

Even if I'm a drooling fanboi, I'd think long and hard before spending cash on something with a silly once-per-week value. 

[Lovec1990]

2 hours ago, dark lord rediii said:

It would have been better to make a santa cecilla, a 3rd and a pavel DLC ships (With like 1 redeem every week). Why? Because they are average in their class and not OP by any means. 

Santa Cecilia would be ideal firstly she looks diffrent with her black and red paint second she is 12pd frigate so she is average 5th rate frigate and let 24pd frigates be only craftable and cooldown should be 48-72hours. SOLs should not be DLC only craftable.

 

[Slim McSauce]

True, DLC ships are a detriment and a DLC SOL would literally kill the game. We only want to micro poison it with shallow ships, who cares about shallows anyway?

Edited August 21, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

... who cares abou shallows anyway?

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Malachi said:

No hard and fast answer to this question, I´m afraid. For example, La Renommée was classed as a frégate de 8 (livres) when she was built in 1744. In 1800, she would have been a corvette.

Curiously, her gun count (30) would have made her a 5th Rate in british service, yet she classed as a 6th Rate (IIRC).

 

The only thing that´s quite certain is that an one- or two-masted vessel would be 'unrated'. But those ships got quite big, the Cruizer-class of 1797 was around 100', that´s the size of a respectable frigate in 1700.

Maybe we can get a special class for the ships that kinda fall under both 5/6th rates so that they can be of there own.  Even if those ships end up being just DLC or awards (Pandora is suppose to be a 6th rate but has stats close to Cerberus/Niagara, but where will it fall?)   Mark them exactly as 5/6th rates, they are shallow water ships that can't get into shallow PB's for balance reason but we can still use them in shallows and Deep water (even deep water PB's).   I would have the follow 5th rate mod rules, but it would make the histroy buffs more happy that can't stand we are reclassing a ship for balance reason.  @admin posted the draft of a few ships a while back and I think one or two more was just as shallow as the Herc so could be allowed in shallows.  That would give us a craftable ship in place of the Herc, but keep it 5th rate and out of the shallows PB.  Can't remember if that is the Surprise, Cerberus (think it's this one) or the Reno.  He would have to answer that.

5 hours ago, admin said:

We are working to tune the alternatives. But we believe a lot of players will still use the requin and herc because of convenience even if there are other alternative 6th rates and 5th rates that are better

For now can we for balance and testing just make the Requin 5th rate and that way both DLC will have the same limits.  Part of what made them OP in the shallows PB was cause of more firepower and crew and stacked with 6-7th mods made them way above the stats of any other 6th rate in the shallows.  They will still have good stats as 5th rates, but they would be better balanced for the game.  That and can you raise there freaking BR, it should be around 140.  This will limit on how many you can bring into port battles any way so you won't see as many.    As a owner of both ships x5 (I put them on all my alts) I would not be upset if the cool down for getting them redeem be changed to 36-48 hours too so they aren't just quick replacement ships for the main ships of the game.   They should never be quick replacement from main ships in game.  As stated below they are more seen as collectors items, specially if you bring in the San C as the third one or a ship like it that is also a 5th rate.

With that see above and could we maybe make a new class of ships for corvettes and other ships that can kinda fall under both 5/6th rates?

3 hours ago, Rickard said:

did you take this into consideration?

the sollutions that your dev team should consider are nerfing the hercules significantly or/and increase the cool down time for redeeming the hercules, for instance from 1 hercules every day to 1 hercules once per week or month and hercules being barred from PBs. premium ships like the hercules should be seen as collector items and not OP P2W ships.

As a owner of both ships I would say a 48 hour cool down would be much better.  Right now the Yatch has a 24 hour and it's a 7th rate. I would add 12 hours to any rate of ship on the cool down.  Going of the time to craft is way to short and these are DLCs ships they should not be replacements for crafted ships.  You should still feel the lost of a ship not just instant get one back.

[Hethwill]

11 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Right now the Yatch has a 24 hour

But that's the beauty of it.

- cannot be added to fleet, therefore we cannot redeem several

And honestly, I would keep the 24 hours but timer would start from the moment of loss.

DLC Xebec and Hercules should be exactly the same. No fleet. 1 ship. Countdown after loss only.

[Angus MacDuff]

3 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

But that's the beauty of it.

- cannot be added to fleet, therefore we cannot redeem several

And honestly, I would keep the 24 hours but timer would start from the moment of loss.

DLC Xebec and Hercules should be exactly the same. No fleet. 1 ship. Countdown after loss only.

Yeah, right now its easy to redeem your Herc every day even if you've already got one.  Just in hopes of getting a Gold.

[Hethwill]

Just now, Oberon74 said:

Yeah, right now its easy to redeem your Herc every day even if you've already got one.  Just in hopes of getting a Gold.

It is horrible imo. Have 2 Hercs. 1 from the Exams, 1 from Redeem. Barely use them given they feel a bit too strong IMO but that's me, playing as intended.

[Old Crusty]

6 hours ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Hercules is a 5th rate. And rightfully so, being a full rig.

Who really cares in the game if it is technically a 5th or 6th rate. The only thing that matters is, it is allowed in shallow water but not shallow port battles. The Le Requin is allowed in both. Makes no sense to me at all.

[Hethwill]

Hercules can enter PB as well, just not in PBs which are limited to 6th rates/7th rates.

[masterANDcommander]

I still dond understand why Le Req can join shallow water PB. It's way to strong for its BR it outguns every other 6 rate. While being very hard to hit because of the low profile.
Besides that it has a redicules ammount of crew and redicules strong sail profile , not mentioning turnrate and having 3 masts. How do you thing a ship that is in litterly every important stat superior to mercury , heavy rattle, niagara etc. deserves same BR ? I think the Le Req should not be able to enter shallow water PB like the Hercules.

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, masterANDcommander said:

I still dond understand why Le Req can join shallow water PB. It's way to strong for its BR it outguns every other 6 rate.

niagara has only 2 canons less on each side as le requin.

pickle has 4 guns less as prince on each side.

sure they are outgunned.

Buff pickle

[Fenris]

On 7/17/2018 at 8:45 PM, z4ys said:

 

Le Req is changing the game!

Title says it all. Meta changed now lets find 110000000000 reasons why it has to be nerfed so I dont need to adapt and overcome.

True there are some broken things about the xebec but not the ones that get menionted loudest. Because whats really broken on the ship would effect other ships as well.

Ship is overpowered, needs nerf.

Period.

[Malachi]

4 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Mods are overpowered, need removal.

Period.

Corrected that for you.

[Fenris]

1 minute ago, Malachi said:

Corrected that for you.

Requin has over 330 crew, and can sail easily 15 kn in battle 45 degrees upwind. Those stats have nothing to do with mods.

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Requin has over 330 crew, and can sail easily 15 kn in battle 45 degrees upwind. Those stats have nothing to do with mods.

show me a requin out of the box no mods/books doing easily 15kn

[Dibbler (Retired)]

Perk up the Pickle!

[Bluetooth]

14 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Requin has over 330 crew, and can sail easily 15 kn in battle 45 degrees upwind. Those stats have nothing to do with mods.

Requin has 250 crew without mods.

Cannot do 15kn without mods.

List real facts not fake exaggeration.

[HachiRoku]

5 hours ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

You make some fair points, if a serious consideration is made regarding economy and crafting, which is not even a reality.

30 PvP marks have no RL counterpart value. It is a "individual" consideration, as you well put, of a imaginary value in regards only to yourself. Hobby time costs nothing, it is free time.

On the business side of things... if it would've been a "classic frigate" design to be the DLC everyone would be happy and not so "alarmed", but Frigates can be captured from the NPC fleets. How many can a player capture in 2 hours ? 3 ? 5 ? And they come equipped with guns already. True, no Trinc nor Santa Cecilias on those.

 

 

I'll tell you the problem about what @admin, @jodgi , yourself and many others think about convenience. Something that is convenient for you is NOT convenient for others. The DLC ships are not convenient for the game. How do I know this? I look at the game and see that open sea pvp has been MURDERED by them. The health of the game is the only thing that matters and if that costs some people their convenience then so be it. If convenience of 50% of the players is a good excuse for destroying the game for the other 50% then I guess we must agree to disagree. Simple fact is the damage is done already, The ships have been sold and the dlc model cannot change now. No matter how much admin hates me for saying this but the dlc model is flawed at its very core. Even if the ships were 100% balanced and fixed. They are still free in game. As you said yourself the value in game cannot be compared to RL. You can argue that anyone can capture 10 ships a day and get them free. That still means you don't have to. Why should you not have to pay to get your ship but I should farm AI to? Is that not the very definition of pay to win? If a trinco DLC was released tomorrow it would still be gamebreaking and if you all have no other argument other than convenience then you have none at all. Sinking, going back to any port, click a button to get new ship and buying medium cannons is all the work that needs to be done to go out and play again. Now imagine you are someone that doesn't have the dlc. P2W man. As long as no shipyard and mats are needed its broken. Period. 

[Hethwill]

Well put. Thank you.

[Jean Ribault]

9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I'll tell you the problem about what @admin, @jodgi , yourself and many others think about convenience. Something that is convenient for you is NOT convenient for others. The DLC ships are not convenient for the game. How do I know this? I look at the game and see that open sea pvp has been MURDERED by them. The health of the game is the only thing that matters and if that costs some people their convenience then so be it. If convenience of 50% of the players is a good excuse for destroying the game for the other 50% then I guess we must agree to disagree. Simple fact is the damage is done already, The ships have been sold and the dlc model cannot change now. No matter how much admin hates me for saying this but the dlc model is flawed at its very core. Even if the ships were 100% balanced and fixed. They are still free in game. As you said yourself the value in game cannot be compared to RL. You can argue that anyone can capture 10 ships a day and get them free. That still means you don't have to. Why should you not have to pay to get your ship but I should farm AI to? Is that not the very definition of pay to win? If a trinco DLC was released tomorrow it would still be gamebreaking and if you all have no other argument other than convenience then you have none at all. Sinking, going back to any port, click a button to get new ship and buying medium cannons is all the work that needs to be done to go out and play again. Now imagine you are someone that doesn't have the dlc. P2W man. As long as no shipyard and mats are needed its broken. Period. 

That was a cannon shot.  Can't really argue with it though, although many will try.

[HachiRoku]

On 7/17/2018 at 2:09 AM, John Hood said:

I do not think le req was a brilliant idea, and say that as somebody driving one myself... simple example? came back from a mission... ships damaged... two le req with tagged my endy... they did not even care that it was in the safe zone and half of gb was there... I put up about an 30 min fight.... 9!!! ships joined on my side and the ai ship... guess what the 2 le req after 30 min put me in the middle between them, boarding me... and actually managed to escape all the other ships arround them... This ship has a ballance problem. And heck I do the same, find any other 6th rate player and rage board them. 

At least for me it ruins the fun... normaly all you can do its go into the wind and run... of cause they like to gank you near ports even with reeinforcements when the wind points to the coast... so you are doomed... 

I hope that thing gets nerved, or removed and replaced with something normal. The chinese looking thing does not fit anyhow...

You know whats funny. You complain about something that ruins your fun but go ahead an do the same to others. That says alot about you. 

[jodgi]

40 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Something that is convenient for you is NOT convenient for others

Of course not! That's how warthunder/wot/wows and others try to motivate people to buy the same convenience they see others enjoy. No premium content long term players are extremely rare if even one has ever existed.

If OW PvP really is "murdered" by dlc ships I suspect the split between dlc and non-dlc players isn't 50/50.

Maybe dlc ships are a problem on some level? I'm not entirely sure and I definitely don't care as I don't spend even half a calorie worrying about the alleged prime victim: eco.

If ship diversity is the  problem I could fix that by having an imported version of every craftable ship. I'm only half joking. Remember I would play Legends and not OW if given a choice.