Patch 25: Open world user interface update.

[Sir Texas Sir]

21 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

I think that perk is kind of useless now for traders.

I'm glad I'm not  a trader

Why they can still get more cargo in there main ship.  Hell I have it on certain chars not to run trade but for the extra speed boost and to hold more repairs on my ship so I can make longer runs behind enemy waters.   Than again I'm not a heavy trader, the char I use for big trade runs has these perks:   Fleet 1 & 2 so I can run 2 trade ships and an escort, Mortar Brig cause he's my port battle mortar brig player and DD cause well you need every thing you can when fighting off attackers...lol   

26 minutes ago, victor said:

And they will be perfetly right since a trade perk that does not work for fleet is a wasted perk for a trader. So basically Game Labs calls "fixing a bug" what in reality is making ineffective the ONLY GOOD TRADE PERK in game.

A very smart choice ... indeed: as usual they fix what no one asked to fix!

 

The ships all ready have pretty big cargo holds, I'm sure they will live with a little less profit.  Than again if that much boost was needed to make a profit they where prob doing the wrong goods or they all ready sitting on like 200 millions so it's not really going to matter if they loose a little here or there.

[victor]

10 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

The ships all ready have pretty big cargo holds, I'm sure they will live with a little less profit.  Than again if that much boost was needed to make a profit they where prob doing the wrong goods or they all ready sitting on like 200 millions so it's not really going to matter if they loose a little here or there.

You do not get the point mate: that perk was the only good trading perk, now is more useful for combat players. 

Moreover ... NO ONE asked for such a change, so - after nerfing trader ship speeds (when loaded), after nerfing safe zones reinforcements, after putting the invincible trader hunter ship in the game (le requin) - why beating once more a dead horse (traders)?

Traders - since forever - were the most neglected category in this game ... but now it's clear that devs just want trade to be a side activity for combat players. And that's just another nail in the coffin ...

Edited August 10, 2018 by victor

[Guest]

1 minute ago, victor said:

You do not get the point mate: that perk was the only good trading perk, now is more useful for combat players. 

Moreover ... NO ONE asked for such a change, so - after nerfing trader ship speeds (when loaded), after nerfing safe zones reinforcements, after putting the invincible trader hunter ship in the game (le requin) - why beating once more a dead horse (traders)?

They are not beating on traders Victor. They are doing it just to spite you.

[Gott365]

8 hours ago, Crow said:

It's obvious what he thought.

Here's two players who like to trade.

Because they have NO PERKS other than fleet control.

And those 6 traders will have no cannon.

So he would be fighting two non PvP players who had no perks.

8 ships 6 of which would likely be unarmed.

Easy to take a chance on a quick trader kill and escape from big fat slow 4th and 3rf rates that were trying to manouvre thought 6 traders.

Or maybe he was holding you up for his clan mates to arrive?

Not a bad proposition.

Proof is factual, not conjecture.

Maybe you should try reading my posts before again.

Maybe you then will get my point.

But from this reaction I know, that you did not get it yet, or are simply trying to undermine it.

I´ll refrain from giving my opinion on that.

[Archaos]

17 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The ships all ready have pretty big cargo holds, I'm sure they will live with a little less profit.

For some of the trade goods that perk makes a huge difference, for example on a trader brig you can get 2 textile machinery on with the perk but only 1 without it. Trading a lot of the time is a risk vs reward calculation unless you are doing a completely safe run, and it gets to the stage where the reward is not worth the risk. So this change coupled with the change where none of your fleet ships will be likely to escape severely unbalances the calculation and for many it will not be worth it doing solo trade runs.

To all the people that say trade runs should be done in convoys with protection, don't you realize you are killing content for solo raiders. If everyone moves cargo in big fleets then they can only be stopped by big fleets. To create content you have to allow solo trading be viable and to achieve this the reward must match the risk.

[Niagara]

1 hour ago, Ink said:

Fleet ships in fact never had extra hold space by the perk. The difference is that previously speed reduction was not that great as it is now.

Yet, pre patch a fleet ship was affected by the perk and thus had increased storage....

[victor]

20 minutes ago, Flinch said:

They are not beating on traders Victor. They are doing it just to spite you.

If you are an old tester you should know that game labs is specialist in fixing things that no one asked to fix and leaving there for ages things that a lot of people are asking to change.

So your irony (or troll attempt) is totally out of contest and place.

 

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, victor said:

And they will be perfetly right since a trade perk that does not work for fleet is a wasted perk for a trader. So basically Game Labs calls "fixing a bug" what in reality is making ineffective the ONLY GOOD TRADE PERK in game.

A very smart choice ... indeed: as usual they fix what no one asked to fix!

 

does area control work for fleetships, does carronade master do it, does prepaired work for them?? does rigging specialist work for them? Why should hold opti work for them?

Edited August 10, 2018 by z4ys

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

Well ai do use double charge and shot

do they use that even i dont have the perks 😉

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

So what will the hunter do without the hunt?

 

btw. devs should rework the ship weight slow , not working ^^

 

+ Whats about reworking the Reinforcement Area ?

It looks like the Reinforcement Area is working more for enemies to gank then for the newcommers who finally need the protection.

simply examples are : Port royal , and La Habana.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Nuka

[Archaos]

2 hours ago, Ink said:

Fleet ships in fact never had extra hold space by the perk. The difference is that previously speed reduction was not that great as it is now.

That is not strictly true, because the ships in fleet showed the additional hold space so were not indicated as being overloaded. Now this may just have been a bug showing only on the client side but it was assumed because of what was displayed that it was a feature of the hold perk.

So as it was a bug and could have resulted in the loss of ships because they were slower due to being overloaded can people claim back all their trader ships and cargo that were lost because of it?

[Vernon Merrill]

2 hours ago, victor said:

And they will be perfetly right since a trade perk that does not work for fleet is a wasted perk for a trader. So basically Game Labs calls "fixing a bug" what in reality is making ineffective the ONLY GOOD TRADE PERK in game.

A very smart choice ... indeed: as usual they fix what no one asked to fix!

 

"it's a fact that so many seasoned and very active testers got bitter (or silent) over time ..."

[p i t]

6 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

I think it was ok to release premium ships as DLCs even when it is early access. It would be even worse if they would run out of money and game development would stop or that it never gets released because of monetary issues.  Also I think it is nice that they found more ways to make money to support the game.

How can I properly test an early access game and provide feedback if content is limited to increasing DLCs? Yes I bought the swap nation DLC, i hope they put that money to good use. But i'm afraid of seeing now a trend of DLC after DLC in an early access game. I wont care to test that. Super ships ruining the solid foundation.

PS. this game will never run out of money so long as @Christendom buys alts to mimic @King of Crowns

[Sir Texas Sir]

55 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

Well ai do use double charge and shot

 

And a big YES to changing hold Opti to a permanent mod you can equip to ships

I actually would love to have it as a mod to put on my trade ships as I really don't have much ot put on them other wise. or even us it for other ships. I can see certain 5/5 ships this being used on to fill out that extra mod if you need to on a raider to hold goods you might raid.  I also think that if we have to grind out the slots on the deep water traders they need to be 3/5's not 3/3.....at least make the LGV Refit 3/5 and maybe the future Indianman Refit if we ever can get one 3/5...lol.

[Bluetooth]

3 hours ago, Gott365 said:

Maybe you should try reading my posts before again.

Maybe you then will get my point.

But from this reaction I know, that you did not get it yet, or are simply trying to undermine it.

I´ll refrain from giving my opinion on that.

Why don't you like what I surmised the Herc player was thinking based on your 'scenario' or is it that only you can really know what another player is thinking?

[Peter von Friedemach]

On 6/18/2018 at 10:41 AM, admin said:

WHY u nerf the perk Hold Optimisation???  Do you have no other problems dear Devs?
I allways saw hold optimization as a general skill of a trader captain ... like foreman or overseer ... who is very experienced seaman in packing his cargo into the hold ... a special cargo officer. Realism suffers again ... WHY to hell should this captain who loads his three ships only optimize the cargo hold of his first ship????
Devs - please give the traders back what u took from them.
If not u can delete this perk because its useless as Victor said.
Or give us an aditional permanent upgrade called "Hold Extention" we can farm for and install on a new trading ship buildt.



 

 

[Niagara]

5 hours ago, Ink said:

Fixed the bug with hold optimization perk - now it affects only player ship on client side (as it works on server side).

The perk was not supposed to increase hold of fleet ships. Before the hotfix on client side their hold were affected by the perk thus in fact players overloaded fleet ships.

It may not have been the intended effect at the start but it was one of the big reasons for a trader to have it. And seeing as AI ships have loads of perks and modules at the same time to "cheat" why not give all Ai ships this perk aswell.

The logic to remove it does not make sense. If your giving Ai  more mods and perks to make them better/harder then clearly Ai should also have this perk.

5 hours ago, Archaos said:

So now the fleet ships do not have the extra hold space if you have the hold optimization perk?

If this is correct, can I ask what do the Dev team have against traders in the game as a lot of the recent decisions appear to want to eliminate trading from the game.

I have to agree on this question, What do the Developers have against traders?

Traders are a good target for PvP players so in fact to promote more Open world PvP you should try to cater to these kind of players as they very much give more chances to PvP.

Many of the changes lately has been to improve PvP at the cost of PvE and especially Traders and Econ players.

With this change to the Hold Optimization Perk it seems quite clear that again non PvP players gets screwed as few and small changes have been made to improve the economy and trading in this game but loads of changes and improvements are more to cater to the PvP players. Is that because they whine the most on the forums?

[Peter von Friedemach]

5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The ships all ready have pretty big cargo holds, I'm sure they will live with a little less profit.  Than again if that much boost was needed to make a profit they where prob doing the wrong goods or they all ready sitting on like 200 millions so it's not really going to matter if they loose a little here or there. 

You don't have any sense for traders! U loose 20% of hold? U loose 20 % of your profit - wish you gankers would loose 20% of all your fighting skills!!! PvPers would cry the hell out here in forums ...
I am sure you will live with 20 % less of your actual skills 😉 Sir Texas Sir

Edited August 10, 2018 by Peter von Friedemach

[Niagara]

5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The ships all ready have pretty big cargo holds, I'm sure they will live with a little less profit.  Than again if that much boost was needed to make a profit they where prob doing the wrong goods or they all ready sitting on like 200 millions so it's not really going to matter if they loose a little here or there.

That is all true that the Indiaman still has a big hold and the change is not game breaking in itself, BUT they current tendencies are that traders and econ players gets screwed over and over because most changes are aimed at pleasing the PvP crowd who apparently whines the most and thus gets most attention.

When will I get my 100K Traders marks that I can buy equal good skills / modules like PvP marks? Never is my guess as we Traders and Econ players simply dont whine enough on these forums.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Niagara
spelling

[Sir Texas Sir]

Aww the little traders are crying cause they had broken game mechanics fixed.  The perk was never called Fleet Optimization.  You didn't loose 20% you still have it on your main ship.  

As for me being a PvPer I would like to tell you I"m pretty much a tripple threat in this game:   PVP/RVR, CRAFT, TRADE

So I do know a thing or two about trading.  If your margine is so bad that you have to bring 4 ships and loosing 20% cargo on 3 of those than you are trading in the wrong goods, or your sitting on 200 millions pluss that is doing nothing.   

Again I don't even run Hold Optimization on my Crafter or Trader/Hauler chars.   They don't need it cause I make enough profit that I don't need to stuff the ship full. I also sale cannons in two ports and ships in one to make money. I get a lot of money just for doing PvE to get my PvP/RvR too.   There are multi ways in this game to make money and I have no problem with some one doing it strictly through trade, but if the Devs fix a bad mechanic that shouldn't be there so don't bitch.  You will live with the less cargo space and profits I assure you.   I mean it's not like half those ships ever make it any way when you get tagged and have no guns and loose a few of them.  Here's a hint how to max your profits and not loose ships:

1) RUN GUNS ON YOUR TRADE SHIP

2) MAKE RUNS WITH CLAN MATES....Numbers is power, loan hunters or small groups won't attack a large group even if they are all trade ships.

3) IF YOU ARE RUNNING SOLO BRING ONE ESCORT WAR SHIP.  Fight them off while your trade ships run and escapes (though this will be changes soon so no easy free ride back to port).

4) DON'T DEPEND ON ONE THING TO MAKE YOU MONEY.  Econs and times change, so does game mechanics.  Remember the Fine woods days, Campus Wood and Tabbaco days where you could make a killing of them.  Devs saw that as a problem and changed it. 

[Slim McSauce]

43 minutes ago, Niagara said:

That is all true that the Indiaman still has a big hold and the change is not game breaking in itself, BUT they current tendencies are that traders and econ players gets screwed over and over because most changes are aimed at pleasing the PvP crowd who apparently whines the most and thus gets most attention.

When will I get my 100K Traders marks that I can buy equal good skills / modules like PvP marks? Never is my guess as we Traders and Econ players simply dont whine enough on these forums.

Have you noticed there are all these bypasses for economy, yet no option for bypassing day to day ganking and unfair battles even as a new player with no gear? Remember the days when you could buy ships with combat marks, not the best ships, but good middle of the road ships easily replaceable for various tasks? It's funny how much emphasis is put on pvp, and equally vital things like economy are ignored.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Farrago]

On 8/9/2018 at 10:54 AM, admin said:

This decision is thought through across multiple scenarios and significantly improves realistic resolution to combat and out of combat situations + closes the loophole.
The negatives that you dont like some players might considered positives. For example the ability to revenge gank the player killer if he is too arrogant and greedy. Or no slow fat rich indiamans escaping due to automatic teleport to port (without actually sailing on the OW). 
 

It was important to close the loop hole, but this solution reduces rather than improves "realistic resolution to combat situations" for traders AND those who hunt them.

I  am in command of a small trader flotilla carrying desperately needed violins to the Havana Symphony Orchestra so they can begin their 1816 Season sounding their best. A single pirate hits us. I signal my captains to save their ships and cargo and make best speed to Havana. I will fight a delaying action possibly sacrificing myself for the glory of music. The show must go on! I ultimately give my life after a valiant 30 minute running battle against great odds. But the next day, the Havana papers question why my captains chose to ignore my orders to escape and instead chose to drop sail and sit around watching and waiting until my battle had concluded. Alas, old worn-out violins for another year...

Please continue to look for a solution to the loophole that doesn't totally remove a realistic element in another part of the game. Perhaps increased length of invisibility for escaped trader fleet ships would be a reasonable compromise?

Edited August 10, 2018 by Farrago

[Niagara]

21 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Have you noticed there are all these bypasses for economy, yet no option for bypassing day to day ganking and unfair battles even as a new player with no gear? Remember the days when you could buy ships with combat marks, not the best ships, but good middle of the road ships easily replaceable for various tasks? It's funny how much emphasis is put on pvp, and equally vital things like economy are ignored.

Sadly I have noticed this. Most changes lately has been to cater to the PvP players and few if any has had positive effects for traders and econ players. In fact some have been quite bad for econ players and crafters or traders but hey we dont whine alot here so why bother making content for us.....

 

[o Barão]

7 hours ago, Elric said:

Some of the ships can be made relevant again by changing the rules around PB's and hostility.

If the port BR limits the ship class, then 4th rate, 2nd rates and others become important again.

• 10000+ BR - any ship can enter, any ship can grind
• 7500 BR - 2nd rates max can enter or grind
• 5000 BR - 3rd rates max can enter or grind
• 2500 BR - 4th rates max can enter or grind

How often do you see 2nd rates in battles now?  Or 4th rates?

I really like your idea. Make other ships class important in PB . Gives more variety; A big +1 for your idea.

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 minutes ago, Niagara said:

Sadly I have noticed this. Most changes lately has been to cater to the PvP players and few if any has had positive effects for traders and econ players. In fact some have been quite bad for econ players and crafters or traders but hey we dont whine alot here so why bother making content for us.....

 

You do know the next patch is not just UI, it's ECON PATCH TOO?