Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Hethwill]

56 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

Staying factual, nations did not switch to 100% xebecs, proving that Naval Action is wrong.

NA is not wrong. It does not mimic historical events but then we are not reenacting. We are reinterpreting what might have been if.... with the toolset of the historical age.

Alas no captains struggles even close to what logistics were back then, so let's not nitpick. Please. 

Still I stand my ground regarding the Xebec hence why we must show and test her to the limit, to show the devs what exactly is wrong.

That's the difference between crying wolf! and showing what us wrong. The testing.

 

[Aquillas]

OK, go back to Naval Action data! Let's deny historical background!

Here is the Naval action stats of last fights I got (Sorry for no stats on 24-25, I was fully bored)

Date	Enemy Requins	Enemy Hercules	Enemy others	Friendly Requins	Friendly Hercules	Friendly others	Enemy losses	Friendly losses	Remark
OW 23-08-2018 22-40-42	Yes	Yes	No	No	Yes	Yes	No	Yes
OW 23-08-2018 22-40-42	No	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No
OW 26-08-18 13-22	Yes	No	No	No	No	Yes	No	No
OW 26-08-2018 14-00-45	Yes	No	No	No	No	Yes	No	Yes	Surrended (3 Shamec vs 1 privateer)
Silas in Trader Lynx	Yes	No	No	No	No	Yes	No	Yes	Surrended (Shamec vs Trader Lynx)
OW 26-08-2018 15-05-51	Yes	No	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	No	Yes
OW 26-08-2018 17-22-31	No	No	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	No	No
OW 26-08-2018 18-09-01	Yes	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes
OW 26-08-2018 18-38-52	Yes	No	Yes	No	No	Yes	No	No
OW 26-08-2018 22-15-36	Yes	No	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	All enemy ships sunk, except Reqs
OW 26-08-2018 22-36-26	Yes	No	No	No	No	Yes	No	Yes
OW 26-08-2018 23-37-49	Yes	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	No
Average values	83%	17%	33%	8%	42%	92%	17%	50%

As you see, the xebec invasion by gankers is factual, proved, because they know the can gank without major risk in xebecs whatever the opposition is.

Xebec gankers complain that the are counter ganked by Bellos. Yes. These bello captains come in fight, knowing that they will lose their time (very little chance to reach at range distance, but they know that this is the only way to keep Shamecs off fights against new players and some of them still accept to lose their time for this result).

The ratios of presence of Shamec is significant (83%), showing that xebec users know, by experience, that the ship is OP. Also shown by the ratio of losses.

A game breaking ship is a game breaking ship, whatever the way you try to see it, unless being voluntarily blind. My father would have told that another way in French: "Tourne-toi du côté que tu veux, tu auras toujours le cul par derrière". (Whatever the direction you're turning to, you'll have the ass in the back)

[Hethwill]

Awesome log entries love to see it. There's one vital information missing... Location.

( our entries versus xebecs actually end the other way around. as an example a 2v2 princes against xebecs ended with 1 xebec sunk and 1 xebec retreating in haste... but we will compile our data for comparison)

Our Locations were never in a Zone, but roving "aimlessly" in the OW and chance encounters. I think this might be important regarding comparison of results.

By the way, you didn't read all. Test, report. She is being developed same as any other ship.

Urban myth that she is Le Kraken means nothing.

What will not change, i am "afraid", is her competence working the wind. 

 

[Aquillas]

All from Port Morant to Carlisle, except the OW 26-08-2018 17-22-31 , which was in Belize, against an Endy (who runned).

Edited August 27, 2018 by Aquillas

[Lovec1990]

Intresting topic i need popcorn.

 

So Requin is meta now but if requin is nerfed then what you think everything will go back nope just new meta ship DLC or crafted

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, Aquillas said:

All from Port Morant to Carlisle, except the OW 26-08-2018 17-22-31 , which was in Belize, against an Indef (who runned).

Thank you.

[GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN]

Schebecke

Easy to sail, hard to kill, never to catch.

I like this ship. Doesn't seems OP, very low structure, heeling, hard to shoot to the lee side. If this ship get speed nerf, it will be a useless ship like rookie brigs. 

Everyone sails herc and xebec and guys get only sink by this ships. Because of that, everyone think and says, this ships are OP. 

Clicking 1 week to get 5/5 Crew Space Very Cramped xD

Last words, beautiful ship devs.. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

41 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Awesome log entries love to see it. There's one vital information missing... Location.

( our entries versus xebecs actually end the other way around. as an example a 2v2 princes against xebecs ended with 1 xebec sunk and 1 xebec retreating in haste... but we will compile our data for comparison)

Our Locations were never in a Zone, but roving "aimlessly" in the OW and chance encounters. I think this might be important regarding comparison of results.

By the way, you didn't read all. Test, report. She is being developed same as any other ship.

Urban myth that she is Le Kraken means nothing.

What will not change, i am "afraid", is her competence working the wind. 

 

A good point on that data would also mean who did you fight?  Was that Requin some casual or some one of equal skills to Rover members?  Remember the game should be balance upon the skill of a casual player not the vets.  I have killed a few myself and while I’m an average player the ones I beat where casual and way below average players that didn’t know how to sail the ship.  The only time I have beaten one against an equal skill player I was in one too.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Sir Texas Sir

[Hethwill]

You are right. 100% right. But our skill is average at best.

But looking at where Xebecs are mostly used to rampage... is like unleashing a wolf in a sheep pen.

The zones are nothing but a way to congregate all sheeps in one pen.

Even sheeps in wolf skins feel like wolves in there.

[Kifli]

35 minutes ago, GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN said:

Schebecke

Easy to sail, hard to kill, never to catch.

I like this ship. Doesn't seems OP, very low structure, heeling, hard to shoot to the lee side. If this ship get speed nerf, it will be a useless ship like rookie brigs. 

Everyone sails herc and xebec and guys get only sink by this ships. Because of that, everyone think and says, this ships are OP. 

Clicking 1 week to get 5/5 Crew Space Very Cramped xD

Last words, beautiful ship devs.. 

you have to be kidding it more a 5.5 that a 6 rate! you have more crew that any 5 rate more guns that any 6 rate plus speed. People just go around boarding every body. 

It is the most powerful 6 rate no doubt but also can just board any 5 rate. 

[Bluetooth]

This is from somone who sails her.

Ok so I bought both dlc to support game. Don't like the Herc imho it's OP but liked by the ex surpise/trinci squad so fair enough.

I have sailed the xebec now since it's release.

I always wanted a fast raider for solo and group work. I love being a pirate and boarding is how real pirates fought. None of this 4rd rate - 1st rate / portbattle national rubbish.

Honest opinion on xebec:

1. The xebec was op at release.

2. The (I will never buy DLC crowd were a bit hysterical).

3. The nerfed xebec is a different ship.

4. She needs a further tweak.

Reasons:

She has had her down wind speed nerfed now, so she can't catch a cold downwind. But that is a good thing.

Her sails have been nerfed. She takes sail damage and her speed suffers. As it should. Mast fall down when hit properly.

Her hull is not strong but is hard to hit and she can angle her bow well. That's a combat profiency thing.

Her crew of 250 is fine. With normal mods she can reach 333. That's using 2 mods. It is possible with crew space and lucky builds to get a bit more but not normal. This is also fine. It is what she is.

Her turning without maniual sailing is rubbish. Also a good thing.

She leans a lot and you have to manual sail her to fire. Also a good thing.

She's a very tricky to stop without reversing.

My honest suggestion would be to lower her thickness by 5.

The only other problem she has is player abuse of mods.

But that's a game mechanic which is the real cancer in this game.

She also suffers from bad player hysteria. Some players can't shoot very well and have no understanding of angling or bounce. I have fought players who miss with whole broadsides the scream the ship is OP.

The fire at sails etc miss then CRY is a  dlc problem.

The worst are the vets. They don't seem able to adapt to this specialized ship at all so they CRY and shout and stamp their feet, then......sink.

Fight the xebec, don't run and cry. Its no where near as tough as some claim.

Lower her thickness and she w/o be more inline with what she was historically.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Crow

[Lovec1990]

 

Quote

The worst are the vets. They don't seem able to adapt to this specialized ship at all so they CRY and shout and stamp their feet, then......sink.

Here you stated it very wrong not that they are unable too adapt to Requin its that they do not want to adapt they want that game goes back whent thing were as they are used to

Edited August 27, 2018 by Lovec1990

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

 

Here you stated it very wrong not that they are unable too adapt to Requin its that they do not want to adapt they want that game goes back whent thing were as they are used to

Quote

The worst are the vets. They don't seem able to adapt to this specialized ship at all so they CRY and shout and stamp their feet, then......sink.

They want to sail "real ships" and a bellona cant kill a xebec if the xebec captain aint stupid. So as long a bellona cant oneshot a xebec or sail as fast upwind as a xebec they will cry

[GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN]

1 hour ago, Kifli said:

you have to be kidding it more a 5.5 that a 6 rate! you have more crew that any 5 rate more guns that any 6 rate plus speed. People just go around boarding every body. 

It is the most powerful 6 rate no doubt but also can just board any 5 rate. 

Example: indefatigable, 350crew. More crew that any 5th rate.. Hmmmm. You can kill that ship and run away with every 5th rate. (no Live Oak, floating battery) 

Yes, it can kill and board every 6th rate. But in no words I said, that this ship is a 6th rate. 

Experienced players will kill that ship and average player will lose against xebec, but average players will lose in any other ship and against any other experiences players in any other ships. 

In other words: You lose most of the time against the enemy captain, not enemy type of ship. 

Ship is not OP, it's only OP, that you can redeem every day a new one. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN
Add

[Thomas Boyle]

For example(consider just one characteristic ). Base speed of RattleHeavy is 12.72. Base speed of Herc(Heavy) is 13.25.

Base speed of Prince is 12.85. Base speed of Xebec is 13.49.

No need tales about Snow etc. In long chases dlc ships will run and easy kill small pursuers while others infinitely fall behind.

Don't write about OP mods/books. These dlc ships are OP in any condition from base to full fitted. The broken ship economics, dissapeared craftable 7-6-5(-4) ships. Imho. No redeem by 1 click, only permits like regular ships build. They had to be like santa cecilia in 2016: special ship-gift from admiralty(devs) as a reward. Or they must be obtainable without DLC by pvp marks as a Hermione, LesGros Refit. For example, 100+ marks for Herc.

[z4ys]

19 minutes ago, Thomas Boyle said:

For example(consider just one characteristic ). Base speed of RattleHeavy is 12.72. Base speed of Herc(Heavy) is 13.25.

Base speed of Prince is 12.85. Base speed of Xebec is 13.49.

No need tales about Snow etc. In long chases dlc ships will run and easy kill small pursuers while others infinitely fall behind.

Don't write about OP mods/books. These dlc ships are OP in any condition from base to full fitted. The broken ship economics, dissapeared craftable 7-6-5(-4) ships. Imho. No redeem by 1 click, only permits like regular ships build. They had to be like santa cecilia in 2016: special ship-gift from admiralty(devs) as a reward. Or they must be obtainable without DLC by pvp marks as a Hermione, LesGros Refit. For example, 100+ marks for Herc.

maybe prince should be buffed

[Aquillas]

14 minutes ago, z4ys said:

maybe prince should be buffed

Yest, let's buf the Prince up to 35 knots! This will solve the Xebec problem, and Prince Action sounds better than Shamec action!

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

They want to sail "real ships" and a bellona cant kill a xebec if the xebec captain aint stupid. So as long a bellona cant oneshot a xebec or sail as fast upwind as a xebec they will cry

Yep.  Most “vets” think bigger is better.  Want to kill a Xebec?  Grab a Prince and give it a go.  It’s kinda fun once you get a formula.  Carronade one’s are the best.  The rage when you stay JUST outside of their effective range is divine.  

Juat watch out for the elite pirate rig  ones.  You’ll know which ones those are quickly.  And then pray your mast hitting skills are on point that day. 

[Hethwill]

51 minutes ago, Thomas Boyle said:

Don't write about OP mods/books.

All ships overperform because of mods / books.

Speed curves are flat against the envelope and even with rig damage they retain the excess promoted by the mods/books.

What you say has nothing to do with Xebec, but all ships.

 

[Bluetooth]

57 minutes ago, Thomas Boyle said:

For example(consider just one characteristic ). Base speed of RattleHeavy is 12.72. Base speed of Herc(Heavy) is 13.25.

Base speed of Prince is 12.85. Base speed of Xebec is 13.49.

No need tales about Snow etc. In long chases dlc ships will run and easy kill small pursuers while others infinitely fall behind.

Don't write about OP mods/books. These dlc ships are OP in any condition from base to full fitted. The broken ship economics, dissapeared craftable 7-6-5(-4) ships. Imho. No redeem by 1 click, only permits like regular ships build. They had to be like santa cecilia in 2016: special ship-gift from admiralty(devs) as a reward. Or they must be obtainable without DLC by pvp marks as a Hermione, LesGros Refit. For example, 100+ marks for Herc.

They are here to stay this thread is about how to help them fit in.

The comments you made don't help anyone.

Nice redcoat by the way.

[z4ys]

22 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

Yest, let's buf the Prince up to 35 knots! This will solve the Xebec problem, and Prince Action sounds better than Shamec action!

13,5 would be a good start and maybe a bigger sep at 180°

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

A good point on that data would also mean who did you fight?  Was that Requin some casual or some one of equal skills to Rover members?  Remember the game should be balance upon the skill of a casual player not the vets.  I have killed a few myself and while I’m an average player the ones I beat where casual and way below average players that didn’t know how to sail the ship.  The only time I have beaten one against an equal skill player I was in one too.

I will give a fast reply to this before (I'll try) another more elaborate reply.

The sunk Requin was a veteran I consider better than me. And as far as I know well fitted too.

He was caught between Fort, 2 princes (not engaged but still locking an escape router) and at close quarter with 1 prince and 1 privateer (Hethwill). 

He got too much damage to sail to run so being slowly dismantled.

I raid a true lot on xebec and I can assure that I (and my mates) have zero fear to be joined (as usual) by 10 Bellonas: they are terrible shooters and cant catch. The only risk is a bellona lucky spawn + a couple of lucky (again gunnery skill very low usually) broadsides (as I lost some Requins); I read from Aquillas of Requin soaking a bellona broadside: if the Requin lost the mast and some side means the broadside was aimed too high to damage the side (otherwise how losing the mast?).

Otherways we will disengaging laughing hard.

Majority of Requins I lost was due staying in combat against impossible odds... For that one more kill... And before disengaging getting surrounded.

One I lost stupidly accepting a boarding from a more crewed Requin.

But I lost one to 2 smart Brit newbies I "trained" a bit that joined with belle+2 priv and prince+2 priv.

They were able to stick close to me and 4 privateers damaged my sails top much. Cheap and smart setup.

That said. Hunting a Prince with a Requin is pure pain... Because prince is adequately fast upwind... And far nimbler than Requin.

But British vets want to sail "real ship", joining with 10 bellonas.

If they'd join with 10 princes they could be able to hunt my mates and me.

And not repeating that a Requin can be countered... If you know her: VIXIT are using her a lot... And none would fear one on any other ship

Edited August 27, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[Aquillas]

One other important feedback in terms of playability... We know that gankers, often in xebecs, are daily attacking all capitals. And so, defense fleet do their best to protect these zones from this daily invasion.

Attackers can hit and run several times before being intercepted, and they are earning a lot of PvP marks, combat marks, XP and gold there. Even if most of them are fully unable to properly use their manual sailing, main reason why I often escaped to their pathetic xebec assaults, in a Lynx, a Pickle, a Privateer or a Brig. In Xebec Action, just noobs can earn a lot.

If  defense fleet can successfully intercept gankers (i.e. not every time) they could damage one of some xebecs among them, if they were lucky enough to pop in battle at the right place. These  xebec, even damaged 50% of the hull and 50% of the sails, will simply go upwind and escape. So that defense fleet captains will almost never earn anything. In addition, most of gankers troll the defense fleets in the battle chat just before escaping, because they are stupid boys, proud of their stupidity, and unable to see that their success are only due OP modeling of the upwind speed of the ship and upgrades, leaving the most rapid of the pursuit ships to the same speed than them (cap speed). Stupid, and useless chase, because Xebecs bow chasers can shoot chains from the coward side, not stern chasers.

After what xebec gankers will repair in OW, teleport new crew, and hit and run again and again, earning a lot of rewards, again...

And defense fleet leave the game, bored for the day or for longer. So many time, I can read on the nation chat: "wich ship? A req? nvm". Some of them decide to sail a xebec too in enemy capital waters, adding more xebecs to ganks (reason why the Shamec ganker fleet sizes are growing up rapidly). We got some units in front of KPR some weeks ago. Now, it is per dozens. More are expected next week.

Do you really think that this mechanic will last 5 months, like the non-action time we ever lived for the Wasa?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Aquillas

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

Do you really think that this mechanic will last 5 months, like the non-action time we ever lived for the Wasa?

I have still nightmares of Wasas stardestroyers.

And it lasted more.

And against that level of meta (and undoubtely skill too) there was no counter at all.

[z4ys]

5 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

... These  xebec, even damaged 50% of the hull and 50% of the sails, will simply go upwind and escape. So that defense fleet captains will almost never earn anything....

really any schooner can do that 😉 A bellona is a bellona always easy to outplay with the right rigging