Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I don't know why, but this gave me a good chuckle @admin, thanks.

Though off topic would love to know why we don't have paints any more. 

we will have paints
We will have to wipe ships to add them back (because paints will be added as ship knowledges (that can be used on that ship forever). And this will require ship wipe because it will change structure of the database making all old ships obsolete and unusuable

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

i remember the first posts on this forum were people were commenting on

• flags waving in the wrong direction - most games were ponting flags and banners just to the stern of the ship
• backing speed - some people said we are crazy and sailing ships never could sail back (because all other games did not have it

 

Fresh content is always going to be criticized. My biggest concern is that you don't have Ship value in your game. Look at EvE and see how long it takes to build a titan and how much it cost to get one. Here you allow everyone get 1st rate within 1 week, come on really? I hope you can do something about this and also allow us to have insurance. Sailing is very good and it is the best mechanics that you ever had in this game. The end. Let it sit and get tuned.

Edited December 7, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I don't know why, but this gave me a good chuckle @admin, thanks.

 

I sometimes am an emotional squirrel myself  

[Niels Terkildsen]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

i remember the first posts on this forum were people were commenting on

• flags waving in the wrong direction - most games were ponting flags and banners just to the stern of the ship
• backing speed - some people said we are crazy and sailing ships never could sail back (because all other games did not have it

Well, those are not my words. I have only praise for what you've done up until now; that is also why I passionately hope that we won't take a step back - and I do hope that the "arcadey" things we're seeing now is the result of the fact that many variables (like basic speed and turn rates) haven't been adjusted.

 

5 minutes ago, admin said:

Current behavior is realistic and is finally comparative and is purely based on ship profile, not some feel. 
We just have make it feel right now

This.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Niels Terkildsen
correction

[Jarlath Morrow]

I have a question - does the weight of the hold (such as cannons and cargo) affect the in-game weight for purposes of acceleration and such? I don't think it would be a big difference either way, but I would like to know.

[admin]

12 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

I know some don't care about decorum and manners... but I do.
You could at least let us believe that you make the game for us because that's all you care about.

of course we make it for players like you. and just like you we dont like to be told what to do and what not to do

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 minute ago, admin said:

we will have paints
We will have to wipe ships to add them back (because paints will be added as ship knowledges (permanent and forever). And this will require ship wipe because it will change structure of the database making all old ships obsolete and unusuable

Yah that was the little rumor i heard through watching the russian side of things.  Though why can't we have old paints until than.  Give us PvP guys something to trade with the PvE guys maybe.  Since it's all going to be wipe again any way?

I just want my pink ships back....dangit.

Got a feeling I'm going to be spending most this weekend getting back to basics with some of these ships I use and changes to there sail profile.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Liq said:

Okay so I did a few tests on the surprise - The acceleration once the topsails are down is just insane. I am really liking the new possible manouvers you can do, e.g. going 6 kts reverse, then reverse-ruddering and get the odd broadside off (maybe)

 

sorry @Liq

this post was for you
 

Its not insane 
it feels insane because you compare it to old model. 
 

But all this is realistic and possible
The only difference is this: Realistic sail setting time is 45 mins. Realistic yard turning is 10 mins. 

Current behavior looks fast because yard turning time is fast and sail setting time is fast. Not because its unrealistic

 

I think you can do it because of deep knowledge of the ship behavior. People without your knowledge wont be able to do it. 

We just have to slow it down a bit to feel right

[George Washington]

1 hour ago, Ink said:

Unfortunately there are some mistakes in ship's draught values which will be recalculated and fixed within the next hotfix

Please update spreadsheet as well when you done. Thanks. 

[Niels Terkildsen]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

I think you can do it because of deep knowledge of the ship behavior. People without your knowledge wont be able to do it. 

As long as you know this, you know pretty much all there is to know:

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

I have a question - does the weight of the hold (such as cannons and cargo) affect the in-game weight for purposes of acceleration and such? I don't think it would be a big difference either way, but I would like to know.

yes you are much slower overloaded and have less accelleration and longer deceleration

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

As long as you know this, you know pretty much all there is to know:

Negative, you know half. 

What about hit negative wind and reverse to the right / left? do the loop, drop anchor(T) and do the instant stop maneuver with the right sail position etc.. there are few advanced techniques that some good Russian captains can teach you. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

26 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Fair enough.  Can anyone explain the physics of why Navy Brigs have such a derpy close hauled bump?  The changes to the Prince profile leave me quite sad (much more similar to a Lynx now than before):

in patch notes it was stated - 2 masted ships were not touched and were not updated

[George Washington]

7 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Sorry to ask, but I thought this patch would tweak too the BR for lineships and frigates for PB diversity. Any update about this?

Next patch: Part 3 will cover hp, br and speed performance for light vessels (2 masted and 1 masted ships).

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by George Washington

[Ink]

5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Sorry to ask, but I thought this patch would tweak too the BR for lineships and frigates for PB diversity. Any update about this?

Next patch as it was stated in the current patch notes.

[Jarlath Morrow]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Fair enough.  Can anyone explain the physics of why Navy Brigs have such a derpy close hauled bump?  The changes to the Prince profile leave me quite sad (much more similar to a Lynx now than before):

Outside of port battles, most of the PVP (solo and duo) I have done recently has been in a Prince. If it ever had 90% sail force 2 ticks off 180 like "Prince_Old" shows in the graphic, I don't remember it at all.

I was logged out in open world and just sailed my Prince back to port, and it felt exactly the same as last night.

As for the Navybrig at 45 degrees, I have no idea! It's a long-running mystery for sure. I'm sure it will get addressed when they do the smaller ships.

[maturin]

3 hours ago, Liq said:

Okay so I did a few tests on the surprise - The acceleration once the topsails are down is just insane. I am really liking the new possible manouvers you can do, e.g. going 6 kts reverse, then reverse-ruddering and get the odd broadside off (maybe)

 

Have to admit, there's a lot there that looks over-the-top.

Bearing in mind that Surprise will be the most unnatural square rigger in the game, because she makes 12 knots at 75 degrees, the point at which a real ship would be luffing. And 10 kts at 60 degrees. (Surprise once set that huge impractical middle staysail for a photo shoot, and as a result she's the closehauled king in NA, haha.) With that much upwind momentum to play with, it's impossible to get normal tacking behavior.

Maybe acceleration is excessive for frigates now too? One thing that has long been on my wish list is for acceleration to be almost zero, until a sail has actually finished setting. It looks really gamey to have a ship accelerating from canvas that isn't actually sheeted home yet.

All in all, I think the first round of changes was designed to turn Agamemnon into a hotrod. And that left no room for moderation in the light warship classes. What will the brig be like?

[shaeberle84]

2 hours ago, admin said:

I care about sailing profiles. I am making this game for myself first. I decide what to add first and last. 

You Sir, have balls of steel! Heads up!

[jodgi]

11 minutes ago, maturin said:

Agamemnon into a hotrod.

Aga tacks with her butt now. 

Surprise may be super comfortable now, but try to do the same in an LGV.

Sailing profile matters more now and as a tool to differentiate between fighting pixels in a game I think it's terrific!

Auto skippers will get stuck without hope of ever getting out without touching some keys. People with a clue will be able to swing their bow downwind faster than before after a tack.

Sailing and fighting will be even more challenging and fun than before.

These are the most fun changes in a long time, whatever the squirrels say.

[Jarlath Morrow]

Good points @maturin.

16 minutes ago, maturin said:

Maybe acceleration is excessive for frigates now too? One thing that has long been on my wish list is for acceleration to be almost zero, until a sail has actually finished setting. It looks really gamey to have a ship accelerating from canvas that isn't actually sheeted home yet.

I really like the idea about delaying acceleration until the sails would have time to fill with wind.

As for acceleration, perhaps all acceleration is too great? I think turn acceleration could also use a look.

One of the reasons the Surprise has the acceleration she does in @Liq's video is she has (according to the provided spreadsheet) an acceleration time of 16 seconds. This very low accel-time is probably related to her weight, which is also very low at 660. Even leaving her impressive staysail arrangement, changes to acceleration on the Surprise (and all ships) could be done from the weight side of the equation.

[ivn]

The Crew have to be in dynamic - when player rising or turn off the sails the crew increase on it when sails stabilized the crew have to be distributed between guns and others parts of the ship with some minimum crew on sails which depends on how many sails opened at that moment. The book and ship knowledge of batsman will be more useful and the gameplay of micromanagement of ship become more interesting with this model of the dynamic crew. Developers, please think about it. 

[Farrago]

I haven’t had a chance to test but things that make combat more active and skill based are great. We’ll always have a few ships that look best on paper but with these variations based on sails, we’ll start to see more and more experts who can make their ship of choice sing.

I look forward to further refinements and applying the changes to 2 masters as well.

BTW, @admin it’s great that you are able to build a game that preserves your vision. It is a beautiful game. But please remember a lot of the criticism on this forum, even when you disagree, springs from your player base’s desire for an even better game. Better game = more satisfied players = better reviews = more sales = more money to fund your vision. Regards.  

Edited December 7, 2017 by Farrago

[maturin]

16 minutes ago, Callaghan92 said:

The Admin pretty much covered it, the reason for the acceleration etc, is the time difference between NA and Real world, NA takes seconds/minutes to turn yards/set sails, whereas quoted from Admin "Realistic sail setting time is 45 mins. Realistic yard turning is 10 mins."  so with that the acceleration etc is pretty much a scaled up version of the real thing

Then the result is this:

 

I don't see any super-fast cannon balls or debris flying, so everything else should look plausible as well.

Yards and sails can move fast IRL. Mainsail haul when tacking is supposed to be over in seconds.

 

[King of Crowns]

11 hours ago, admin said:

Yes.. once we finalize it.

so why not have the NAL team work on this and yall work on content for the open world?  .............................................  wrong question?

[Landsman]

11 hours ago, admin said:

If your structure is below 70% you will see a degradation of speed and will have be more careful when conserving structure. In other words you will not longer see light frigates zooming away at 14 knots having 2 bars of structure left.

So damn good.