Patch 10.4 Conquest changes, Battle Groups, Wapen von Hamburg (III)

[Hullabaloo]

9 minutes ago, Archaos said:

If it is just a leader-board then it is not a problem, but if there is some reward for being on the leader-board then I am afraid it will lead to people exploiting it by killing alts and seal clubbing new players. Just look back at all the complaints when they had the PvP areas and how some people farmed alts and worked together killing each other to get the prizes. This will be no different apart from now the whole map is the PvP zone. Do pirate vs pirate kills also count? if so this is open to major abuse.

Correct, I have had the misfortune to have come across a couple of the players on that list (or one of there numerous alts), but with ego's that big they won't need the prosepect of a reward to try any exploit they could think of to get their names on that list. The whole idea is pathetic and squalid.  

Edited July 18, 2017 by Hullabaloo
missed a bit

[Archaos]

8 hours ago, Slamz said:

I hope this patch signals an end to this game's two biggest problems:

* Crushing small teams with huge teams [because people are lazy and too scared about ship loss to fight a real enemy team]
* Huge teams sitting on their hands because they see no reason to care about going on the offensive anymore.

The point system encourages big teams to punch each other. Stealing a port from the Dutch only gives you 1 point for the win and 1 point for the port. Stealing a port from the British gives you a point for the win and a point for the port but more importantly gives the Brits -2 points for the loss -- effectively a 4 point change. (It gives the Dutch -2 as well but they were so far away from #1 it didn't matter. But giving the #1 team a -2 point hit actually means something.)

On PvP-Global this means that continuing to kick the corpse of the USA is pointless (literally!) but everyone has good reason to go after the British now. They have lots of ports and they can't defend them all. Brits have good reason to punch the Pirates to keep them safely back in the #2 position. Smaller teams have incentive to see what ports they might be able to snipe so they have a better position for the future.... or to see who's willing to pay them the most for assistance in a win.

Stagnant wars lead to boredom which leads to quitting. This weekly winner concept might actually be worth something.

 

I hope it will work out as you say, but I am not so sure. If there is a running total shown or if someone keeps track of who is leading in the points then it will be easier for the larger nation to select who to attack next. So unless all the small nations work together to attack the bigger nation then the bigger nations will have the advantage.

For example looking at PvP Global where the Brits are the largest and Pirates second, there is a good reason now for the Brits to attack pirates to ensure that pirates lose points, but on the other hand there is now more incentive for the pirates to attack weaker nations to counter any points loss against the Brits. 

One advantage of the system is that it could get quite tactical especially towards the end of a period when there are only a few points in it and you get a nation trying to steal it at the last minute.

[Archaos]

43 minutes ago, Hullabaloo said:

This happened to me today in my surprise (a cheap one, I can't afford bovenwinds and crooked hull and don't have any 'art of' books, and only have 2 knowledge slots open):

Was at KPR (its just full of noobs I've now realised), I got tagged but easily escaped and went into the new 'warp drive' mode right up behind another surprise and my covert ops cloaking device dropped when i was right behind him. I caught him (easily, he had no chance). I chained him (he had no rig repairs), graped him (he had no rum). I went to board him (he had tried to turn through upwind with 40% sails and was in irons but had his sails the wrong way to get out and was clearly trying every combination). He was M&C rank. I spoke to him in battle and he said that he had played a bit before the wipe running missions and had just started again yesterday. 

I let him go. What's the point in killing a new player trying to get into the game again? I'm a bit noob myself but this guy had no clue yet.

A bit later.....

On my way back to MT sailing against the wind v slow

Another surprise dropped its covert ops cloak right behind me after coming out of warp drive. My surprise does 14.5 (because I pack undersize mediums). This guy was faster and (obv) had 9pd long cannons. I tried to escape but to no avail. When he caught me he stripped most of my armour off with a single angled broadside and i was soon sunk. The fight was fine, I did a reasonable job of trying to escape and made it difficult for him and (would have) quite enjoyed it (and it was a good experience to learn to try and deal with a faster superior ship and try to get away). The fun was spoiled a little bit by the guy ranting in chat that I was a COWARD for having the temerity to repair my sails!

 

This shows that the new invisibility speed mechanic is broken, it was brought in to solve the revenge fleet problem but it is being used for sneak attacks. Raiders raiding outside capitals now have it too easy. They turn up in a speed built ship, hit a target and use the added speed buff and invisibility to hit their next target with the local defenders struggling to have any impact on the raider.

As the post above states " I got tagged but easily escaped and went into the new 'warp drive' mode right up behind another surprise and my covert ops cloaking device dropped when i was right behind him. I caught him (easily, he had no chance)." Now this is not a revenge fleet we are talking about, the defenders here were not sitting in port or across the other side of the map and reacting to news of a raider, they were out actually trying to catch the raider, but he was easily able to escape and carry on raiding without fear.

[Jeheil]

Tagged a santi in OW, sails down, 3 times, each time we enter the battle he is not there,  last time, others appear (not the one tagged), it all went downhill from there, seems perhaps to be a bug with folks logging off at sea leaving a ghost ship ??

Note : Opened a thread in general in case anyone else sees this melarkie : 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Jeheil

[Hullabaloo]

12 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This shows that the new invisibility speed mechanic is broken, it was brought in to solve the revenge fleet problem but it is being used for sneak attacks. Raiders raiding outside capitals now have it too easy. They turn up in a speed built ship, hit a target and use the added speed buff and invisibility to hit their next target with the local defenders struggling to have any impact on the raider.

As the post above states " I got tagged but easily escaped and went into the new 'warp drive' mode right up behind another surprise and my covert ops cloaking device dropped when i was right behind him. I caught him (easily, he had no chance)." Now this is not a revenge fleet we are talking about, the defenders here were not sitting in port or across the other side of the map and reacting to news of a raider, they were out actually trying to catch the raider, but he was easily able to escape and carry on raiding without fear.

Absolutely. Players will be deliberately getting themselves tagged so as to make use of the new warp drive to hit the next target or re-position for favourable wind. Could groups of pirates use actually use outlaw battles to 'slingshot' each other around even? Not to mention that fact that it just looks and feels utterly unrealistic and breaks the immersion. 

[Skully]

@Jeheil can you the link to http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/21778-ghost-ships-player-in-ow/ there please?

 

[Sven Silberbart]

5 hours ago, Malachy said:

My clan captured a 15 knot surprise yesterday with 12 to 14 knot frigates.  Don't need to be 15 knots if you know how to play.

And reverse. If the surprise captain know how to play, you wouldn't catch him.

[Luc]

and if everybody sail 15 knots everything especially your knowledge about sailing your actual ship doesn't care. 

Dont like the idea. That in the end all of us end at 15kn. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Luc

[EL LOCO]

21 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

Rattlesnake Heavy added back

 

What about the regular Rattlesnake?

because the rattlesnake makes the snow obsolete. 

[Taito Magatsu]

24 minutes ago, EL LOCO said:

because the rattlesnake makes the snow obsolete. 

Is not the only ship that where obsolete, in example with the integration of the Brucentaure the St. Pavel turn into a collectors item.

[Captain Lust]

13 hours ago, theprof739 said:

that is just going to encourage more ALT accounts you buy one join the winning team, and login in to collect your marks that someone else earned.... 

Let it sink in for a moment...ok... do you get it now? Dev reading your comment... probably...

[Lovec1990]

New update today or just bug fixes?

[Fastidius]

14 hours ago, Dauntless7_Original said:

War supplies to set 100%? Very bad idea. So much for open world fighting to set PB's.

 

you must be new here

 

[Stilgar]

3 hours ago, Hullabaloo said:

PVP is why I play, If someone doesn't like PVP there is a PVE server. It doesn't need promoting. The only thing it promotes is a kill at all costs, as many as you can mentality, good fights don't matter. It's no indicator of skill, only resources, it's utterly pointless and rewards those who already have stuff. It's why Eve Online don't have it (a very similar game and one of the most long lasting and successful MMO's ever). The thrill of the fight and the satisfaction of sailing well should be all the motivation anyone needs, you don't need to introduce an artificial ranking system that doesn't mean shit anyway. That leaderboard say's: I have loads of gold to buy the best ships, I have no life so I play PC games all day long, I'd be embarrassed to be on it! If i had cared about a leaderboard and wanted my name up in lights, I wouldn't have let that guy go, is that good for the game?

I am with you on this, mate. Thrill of a good battle between two well-organized teams is best reward, even if the battle is undecided and just few ships sunk. 

With this said, I do not mind this LB thing. However, why stop half way: if LB leaders get rewards, cause they are so good, then additional rewards should be given to anyone sinking LB leaders !   

[Captain MiniMe]

12 hours ago, Slamz said:

I hope this patch signals an end to this game's two biggest problems:

* Crushing small teams with huge teams [because people are lazy and too scared about ship loss to fight a real enemy team]
* Huge teams sitting on their hands because they see no reason to care about going on the offensive anymore.

The point system encourages big teams to punch each other. Stealing a port from the Dutch only gives you 1 point for the win and 1 point for the port. Stealing a port from the British gives you a point for the win and a point for the port but more importantly gives the Brits -2 points for the loss -- effectively a 4 point change. (It gives the Dutch -2 as well but they were so far away from #1 it didn't matter. But giving the #1 team a -2 point hit actually means something.)

 

It doesn't, why would you risk wasting resources and time on fighting a nation that you might not win from to maybe take 2 points of them. If you have a higher chance of beating a smaller nation, what is most important is the +2 points for you, rather than the -2 for the enemy (it's odds and risk calculation if you ask me, and every admirality will end up voting for a safe bet). If you see the second biggest nation raising hostility in a zone you as the biggest nation own, counter hostility, make sure to prep your defence fleet there, raise and flip a port of a weak nation. If you happen to lose your port, you have the -2 already by the flip you prepped, then it's just a matter of dropping war supplies in another port of a weak nation and all the work of the second biggest has been for nothing. Being the biggest nation you have the means to do this and keep doing this. It's a broken system not at all encouraging smaller nations to beat up on the big one (the map doesn't even allow for it). Small nations don't have the striking power to actually go and beat up the big ones, not even when 6 or 7 combine strength (it was already neigh impossible to have two nations time a flip and work together, let alone 6 or 7). 
The result will be that smaller nations will end up with only their capital in about 2 weeks (as they can't go offensive, but end up defending their ports in a wear out battle - guess who'll run out of resources first), the two biggest nations will end up fighting each other after 2 weeks when there's no small nations to steal ports from anymore. 
But I can't believe the Devs would actually want to kill all nations and only have 2 superpowers fight each other. Well, to super powers and the pirates since a lot of the players of small nations will move there just to PVP gank the big nation that hello kittyed them over.

I play the Dutch, believe me I don't give up, I'll keep trying. But I have it black on white now here, this is how the map will end up. Unles the devs roll back what they did now, or improve their point system to give all nations regardles of player base an equal chance.

[Kha'ak]

20 hours ago, Ink said:

Only the Nation who has won get VIctory marks, not others.

 

Contract bug should be fixed tommrow.

So on the pve server, theres no way for any nation other then the current points leader (being Spain) to EVER get some victory marks other then trade them (for the price of 250 combat marks).

ARE YOU SERIOUS ?

Im all for grind and i got my 250 hours in less then 1 1/2 months, but farming 1500 combat marks for 1, 1 f****** Permit for a L'ocen is just such BS.

[Michael Corvinus]

Yes  they definitely need to rethink this. I had all the mats for a Bellona and was working to get the marks to enable me to build one. Then this f++*king update came along and f*&^ed me up the ass. I now have to wait at least 4 f ing weeks for Victory marks to build one, and only then if we're top Nation otherwise it could take months.

yes!!! A great way to encourage people to keep on playing. talk about shooting yourself in the foot. How the F*&k can a Bellona be more expensive than a Victory?????

[Fargo]

3 hours ago, koltes said:

PVP killboard is a must. Its been a first day. Have patience. It will be improved with more details ect. Right now though its not about the score but about rewards. With it I have seen 200% more eagerness from people to fight.

It does promote PVP. Your bad experience with one guy does not mean all your experiences will be the same. Good luck

Im not so sure about it. The killboard only shows who spends most time with PvP, not the best players. Its not fair for groups, unless assists count as kills. When they count as kills its not fair for solo players. A real PvP Rating would decreases when you die, while the increase would depend on your enemies rating and BR difference. Thats fair, not rewarding pure playtime, and not promoting gank groups or solo guys farming newbies.

I would either do it right, or remove it. A kill counter just for fun is fine, but were talking about rewards here. It promotes PvP, but only specific PvP, and never fair/fun PvP.

[Hethwill]

Time to Conquer... ?

No more sitting on benefits. That's the baseline.

Not perfect but having a Fleet of the Line and plenty of 74s to act as station Flag ships is ( as was ) a mark of national naval prestige.

Are we just playing for ourselves or for a nation ? Are we simulating a nation power in the age of sail ?

Not a perfect system but the idea is good.

Take a port, gain 1 point to the score and make that enemy lose 2. Somehow at this point, and from fast calculation is not needed to win half the map to get to first. A half dozen regions is enough to gain the lead ( even less if conquered regions are 3 points ).

[Topo de Lezo]

You can exchange 250 Combat Marks for 1 Victory Mark in the Admiralty menu to buy the Bellona Permit

Edited July 18, 2017 by Topo de Lezo
forget to quote

[Topo de Lezo]

8 minutes ago, Michael Corvinus said:

Yes  they definitely need to rethink this. I had all the mats for a Bellona and was working to get the marks to enable me to build one. Then this f++*king update came along and f*&^ed me up the ass. I now have to wait at least 4 f ing weeks for Victory marks to build one, and only then if we're top Nation otherwise it could take months.

yes!!! A great way to encourage people to keep on playing. talk about shooting yourself in the foot. How the F*&k can a Bellona be more expensive than a Victory?????

You can exchange 250 Combat at Admiralty shop for 1 Victory Mark to purchase the Bellonas Permit

[monk33y]

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF DONUTS CHANGE (switch up) WHICH REGIONS GET THREE POINTS. From month to month.

I'm a pirate from eu and I look forward to being down to a single by the new system. Once victory marks are granted pirates on eu will never be able to capture back the shallows! 

Yet another patch giving the strongest nations yet more strength.

It's a shame that the three strongest nations on eu are in non aggression with each other...

[Kha'ak]

1 minute ago, Topo de Lezo said:

You can exchange 250 Combat at Admiralty shop for 1 Victory Mark to purchase the Bellonas Permit

250 combat marks takes me (and i have every ship) around 10 hours to farm, so if i want to farm a Ocean that would take me around 100 hours. Yeah that seems balanced.

Ive farmed more hours for less crap in other mmos but at least that was designed fun and not the same shit over and over and over and over and over and over again

[Michael Corvinus]

25 minutes ago, Topo de Lezo said:

You can exchange 250 Combat at Admiralty shop for 1 Victory Mark to purchase the Bellonas Permit

750 combat marks for Bellona Permit and 250 for a Blueprint, that is dumb ass too expensive. This is taking the piss.

That's the equivalent of 75 Conquest Marks how the f&*k is that any good?

 before patch, Bellona permit was 13 Conquest marks (130 Comat Marks at their exchange rate) so now it is over 3 x more expensive?????

250 Cobat Marks for 1 Victory Mark is 3 x too expensive. This will really encourage high tier play and then people will get bored and leave. Way to go

Edited July 18, 2017 by Michael Corvinus

[Rouleur]

Warp speed cloaked ganks.

How is it fair to a victim to find a ship parked just behind or alongside which you cannot ever see approach you in the OW?

This is just silly. Perhaps we need an in game system to research to it such as a; fusion drive - teleport - warp speed - cloak knowledge tree. Missile cruisers, nuclear subs and aircraft carriers next?

I always respected the argument that the revenge fleet gank was a problem but it was symmetrical with the invisibility gank. Most of the advocates of the change just wanted a get out of jail free card which now means they can line up the next victim in a mega enhanced way. 

What about a new notification for the presence of an invisible ship - "Klingons off the starboard bow - deploy the techyon beam and photon torpedoes Capt"   

Please - the battle sailing is one of the best features of this game. Surely we can do better than invisible windless speed travel in OW. I don't mind  features to enhance game balance but they can't simply amount to a game tool for which there is no defence.