naval no action

[z4ys]

We could remove tp to national towns to solve most of the revenge ganking.

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

this game is already called Naval Inaction on different forums and sites..

talking about realism, what about the repairs every 10 minutes? getting demasted? use rig repair and heey there is my mast again..really..you get a enemy down to low health, oh wait he repairs and is full up again..whil in real-life they nail a few planks to the hull and that be'it.

 

the repair system should change too if we are talking realism

Ships carrying repairs could repair multiple times during the voyage.
During Glorious first of June many British ships repaired multiple times and re-engaged the french within single day (which happens during long fighs)

• You want no repairs because it brings more skill and tactics to you your game is naval action legends then
• You want repairs if you are interested in economy, endurance and strategy which open world game gives you.

Repairs force players to be aggressive and not passive and passive combat achieve nothing in NA, just like real life long range line fighting was proven to be completely useless by end of 18th century.
repairs will remain and we like their implementation because they promote historical aggressive combat and discourage long range pew pew

[admin]

2 hours ago, Grundgemunkey said:

people who wanted the game to be realistic have got there wish ,,,, as a result as in real life there is very little action ... those with dont want to risk their position of power and what they have ,,,those that dont have cannot afford to risk what little they have and end up with nothing

we promised a realistic experience. Now you experienced everything, under cover deals, peace times, alliances, periods of war and frustration, nations destroyed, long chases, short chases, fleet action, small ship action, betrayals, backstabbings et cetera et cetera.

If you are tired of that maybe its time to retire?
Because game is as promised - minor tweaks remain. And its extremely good for an indie game.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Fleet of 4 ganks some guy.  If this fleet of 4 could see that a huge fleet is approaching, they would leave this guy alone and escape.  Teleport to FP was a good option.

We probably would need a mechanism that is supporting escorting.  In another thread I wrote that there could be maybe escort missions.  Admiralty pays a salary from escorting traders.

Protecting people should be active not passive.  Revenge ganking is passive, as you can be in a port taking coffee and doing nothing.  When someone writes in nation chat that they are attacked, your revenge clan sails out.

When Vllad is protecting their traders, you have to go in smaller groups.  Each group is escorting one trader.  Not in a lazy way like you do now.  Vllad, if you are already there with your clan protecting your traders, you can sail with them as well, right?

 

1. An option to teleport to friendly port after battle, or logout.  Bring back the BRS.  At least bring back BRS, so that people can logout.

2. Mechanism to support escorting.  So that it is profitable for escort as well.  (Salary?)

Edited June 17, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[elite92]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

we promised a realistic experience. Now you experienced everything, under cover deals, peace times, alliances, periods of war and frustration, nations destroyed, long chases, short chases, fleet action, small ship action, betrayals, backstabbings et cetera et cetera.

If you are tired of that maybe its time to retire?
Because game is as promised - minor tweaks remain. And its extremely good for an indie game.

i was thinking: and if instead of teleport to friendly port after u escape a battle we test a exit to port? so if u escape a battle u can decide to exit to ow as it is now or to exit to the nearest deep water port, in this way the revenge fleet will not be so sure to find u near the swords. i think its worth a test.

if u gank near the capital maybe u are dead anyway if u escape to port but its ok think about it:

u tag a trader of [HELLOKITTY] clan, u capture it and while u are in battle he obviusly ask for help by his clanmates, so 10 players magically teleport to outpost and exit to camp ur battle instance and cover all the directions u would take; at the battle over u decide to exit to nearest port and the revenge fleet is useless BUT u are still likely in the enemy territory and still a potential target for every1.

seems good in my mind but maybe im a tard idiot...

edit: add invisibility of 60 seconds in both way, if u choose to exit to OW and also if u choose to exit in front of the nearest deep water port so u give a chance to the poor solo player but if the revenge fleet is smart he is dead anyway but if he smarter can continue his journey towards an ally port and maybe exit to a friendly when he is closer

Edited June 17, 2017 by elite92

[Cmdr RideZ]

24 minutes ago, admin said:

Ships carrying repairs could repair multiple times during the voyage.

just like real life long range line fighting was proven to be completely useless by end of 18th century.

Voyage, I like that.  Currently we repair multiple times during a battle.

I have understood that long range fighting was completely useless because cannons were not accurate.

[SeamanStaines]

Admin. If you refuse to listen to people who are trying make the game better there is no point in the forum. Advice such as attack Road Town is unhelpful and comes over as flippant.

I have more than 4000 hours logged. The game means a lot to me. It helped me through some very bad times. I desperately want it to be a success. But since the new patch I struggle to find enthusiasm to play because its become both frustrating and exceedingly dull. I have never experienced this before, even through the many wipes and changes. Something is badly wrong. Reading the posts I see many other players feel the same way. Many of my clan are similarly frustrated but don't post.

Of course its up to you. Its your game but please don't shoot the messengers who are trying to help.

Edited June 17, 2017 by SeamanStaines

[Hethwill]

War...

Naval Action map...

Keep your friends close. But you know what, keep your enemies closer.

Maybe waging war to the nation right next to you is the way to better logistics instead of wanting to wage a war overseas ( O.o )

Also, PvP is also making sure to kill a ship before it is even born, killing the damn traders while they sail with the stuff back to the shipyards.

If there's escorts even better, raiders and navy folk have fun.

[akd]

Why would someone want to wage war overseas in a game called Naval Action?

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, akd said:

Why would someone want to wage war overseas in a game called Naval Action?

You mean, as a theoretical example, a dutch nation not attacking neighboring brits ? and go on a overseas campaign versus US where the planning and logistics require more time investment ? Or danes and swedes and instead go versus brits, with long lines. The time needed to go pvp against "enemies" is simply of our own making. Sometimes we keep enemies far away.

Was just a pointer to the PvP along frontier regions being fast access

[SeamanStaines]

22 hours ago, admin said:

Make all ships cost 1 peso? Then everyone will sail a santisima. Anywhere in between someone will be unhappy. 

You have to understand this about RVR.

Everything is out there to kill you. You can lose most of the land.  You will have trouble progressing sometimes
A world where sinking is a traumatizing experience, but you have to try and push through
The difficulty comes not from the difficulty for the sake of difficulty - but from the design philosophy 
Loss in video games we take for granted for many years now , but Naval Action is unique in this regard
Loss and failure are designed to give you that feeling of struggle and triumph 
Loss does not kill you - but brings you closer and closer to giving up, to purify your character
Some players would say - wow its too difficult - and they are right! It is too difficult for some people. 

One day you struggle for so long that you give up completely, but because you don't lose your player and skill, some players don't lose hope, gather players around you, you build a fleet, you practice, you learn to fight better, you overcome and start succeeding.
You triumph by destroying the enemy that was terrorizing your nation for so long and you win the game and retire. And then new leaders come and take your place.

The game does not dumb down the conquest for the sake of so called mass market (brigs with rams)
It does its own thing regardless of whether some people will be turned off and in doing so it becomes something unique and valuable and pure.

There are just some tweaks needed to reduce the time required to rebuild 

Yes. The leader has not been born yet - the leader who can gather 30-50 people around him and turn 1 region into the empire.

Pure crap

[SeamanStaines]

17 hours ago, Rickard said:

Revenge = realistic

ganking = realistic 

a strong and powerful community is realistic and necessary to survive

And Boring = what?

[Prater]

Basically, if you are going to pvp, be sure to alot 5 or so hours because you might not be able to stop prior if you keep getting retagged after a battle.  The whole thing of being able to position where you want to be while the battle is already taking place is a problem.  Yesterday a friend tagged an enemy that he could never catch.  I sailed up to where the enemy spawned and joined the battle so I could start right on top of the enemy Lynx.  But I was well behind (by 2 minutes) my friend.  Then, for revenge ganks, they can position a net.  While nets are realistic - a fleet could have formed a net of ships to find enemy ships - what isn't realistic is they are able to do this on the Open World at speed x 75 while you are in the battle at speed x 1.

The whole issue with revenge fleets is time compression.  This is the same argument as battle join timers.  We have battle join timers because of time compression, and the disconnect between speed x1 and speed x75 and radio in the Age of Sail.  There has to be a proper mechanic to protect against the disconnect between speed x1 and speed x75 and the unrealistic use of Radio in the Age of Sail.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Prater

[shaeberle84]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Ships carrying repairs could repair multiple times during the voyage.
During Glorious first of June many British ships repaired multiple times and re-engaged the french within single day (which happens during long fighs)

• You want no repairs because it brings more skill and tactics to you your game is naval action legends then
• You want repairs if you are interested in economy, endurance and strategy which open world game gives you.

Repairs force players to be aggressive and not passive and passive combat achieve nothing in NA, just like real life long range line fighting was proven to be completely useless by end of 18th century.
repairs will remain and we like their implementation because they promote historical aggressive combat and discourage long range pew pew

Repairs are a great addition to the game how the new system works right now. Especially since ships are more expensive (and less dura), losing them has more severe consequences.

However, repairs are a little bit too expensive, hull repairs cost too many LH and rig repairs too much hemp.

Making them cheaper would result in a situation where they are carried plentyfully, which would generate even more tactical depth into the game.

[surfimp]

The "tp to port" on battle exit idea that's being proposed as a solution to the revenge gank scenario would result in an extremely easy to exploit free teleport that could be used to create the same kind of "flash fleets" that the old "Send to outpost" option did.

Eg: attack an AI trader "wherever" and then don't actually fire at it during the battle instance. When the timer expires, choose "tp to port" and get a free teleport all the way across the map.

You hypothetically fix one problem and cause another that's even worse - every single trader will absolutely exploit this to get a risk-free way to transmit their goods without sailing the OW. And warships could use it to quickly tp to a friendly port of their choosing, making it super easy to assemble defensive (or offensive) fleets for port battles and screening, etc.

It causes many more problems than it solves, in my view.

I would suggest that, instead of reintroducing yet another teleport (I think teleports are THE PROBLEM in this game, more than anything), we first try removing the ability to teleport captains between national outposts and seeing if that doesn't actually do a huge amount to address the revenge gank scenario. Once that has been tested, then we evaluate how frequently this "endless retagging" scenario actually happens and decide if further changes are warranted.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Sansón Carrasco

[Nelsons Barrel]

3 minutes ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

The "tp to port" on battle exit idea that's being proposed as a solution to the revenge gank scenario would result in an extremely easy to exploit free teleport that could be used to create the same kind of "flash fleets" that the old "Send to outpost" option did.

Eg: attack an AI trader "wherever" and then don't actually fire at it during the battle instance. When the timer expires, choose "tp to port" and get a free teleport all the way across the map.

You hypothetically fix one problem and cause another that's even worse - every single trader will absolutely exploit this to get a risk-free way to transmit their goods without sailing the OW. And warships could use it to quickly tp to a friendly port of their choosing, making it super easy to assemble defensive (or offensive) fleets for port battles and screening, etc.

It causes many more problems than it solves, in my view.

Okay, i know that must be new for you, but here is the fact: Every little gamemechanic in this game is and will be exploited. You just need to choose the least destructive exploitable mechanic. We had the teleporting-stuff already in game... game was more fun back then.

[surfimp]

Just now, Eleven said:

Okay, i know that must be new for you, but here is the fact: Every little gamemechanic in this game is and will be exploited. You just need to choose the least destructive exploitable mechanic. We had the teleporting-stuff already in game... game was more fun back then.

That's your opinion.  And I've been playing since Sea Trials, my opinion is different from yours, but these discussions and concepts are not new for me.

[Diceman]

On 6/16/2017 at 9:06 AM, Intrepido said:

Until devs realizes that the loss of one ship means hours of boring and tedious grinding there is no way the RvR current situation will improve.

Maybe the players need to realize sailing a ship where a single loss can totally bankrupt them is not a very smart play on their part...

Unfortunately, as in real life, too many are living/playing outside their means. I understand the epeen need for the biggest ship with the biggest guns but don't cry when you lose all on a gamble.

[Grundgemunkey]

5 hours ago, admin said:

we promised a realistic experience. Now you experienced everything, under cover deals, peace times, alliances, periods of war and frustration, nations destroyed, long chases, short chases, fleet action, small ship action, betrayals, backstabbings et cetera et cetera.

If you are tired of that maybe its time to retire?
Because game is as promised - minor tweaks remain. And its extremely good for an indie game.

i find it starnge that you took my post as a criticism ..it was jjust a statement of fact

 

[Forbin]

It's not about Bankrupt, it's about TIME you spend for crafting a single ship (even a little one). It's too time consuming IRL. If you get sunk in a little ship, it'll cost you too much.

Don't forget that, even NA is made too be realistic, it isnot real life, it's a VIDEO GAME, something that should be entertaining, made for distraction. Now it tends to become a second full time job for a lot of players...and most of players are not seeking for a second job...

 

Pre wipe NA was too easy, post wipe it is too hard. We just need more balancing.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Forbin

[Hawkwood]

23 hours ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

With respect: people don't PVP because they're afraid to have to do PVE grinding to replace PVP losses.

What, then, are they doing while not PVPing?

PVE grinding.

It doesn't make sense.

What "people"?

So you are owning your ships to admire them when you look at them in a harbor?

Playing a war game, and being afraid of losing a virtual value doesn`t make sense. And it is "lunacy".

[Hawkwood]

32 minutes ago, Forbin said:

It's not about Bankrupt, it's about TIME you spend for crafting a single ship (even a little one). It's too time consuming IRL. If you get sunk in a little ship, it'll cost you too much.

Don't forget that, even NA is made too be realistic, it isnot real life, it's a VIDEO GAME, something that should be entertaining, made for distraction. Now it tends to become a second full time job for a lot of players...and most of players are not seeking for a second job...

 

Pre wipe NA was too easy, post wipe it is too hard. We just need more balancing.

Mate, you are doing something wrong, if it takes too long for you to craft a 5th rate.

[Forbin]

Probably yes, and most of people im talking with must do something wrong too. After 1450 hours of NA, I guess I've not learnt anything....

Edited June 17, 2017 by Forbin

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 hour ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

Eg: attack an AI trader "wherever" and then don't actually fire at it during the battle instance. When the timer expires, choose "tp to port" and get a free teleport all the way across the map.

we first try removing the ability to teleport captains between national outposts and seeing if that doesn't actually do a huge amount to address the revenge gank scenario. Once that has been tested, then we evaluate how frequently this "endless retagging" scenario actually happens and decide if further changes are warranted.

You are probably right, tp to fp would be exploited.

Option to spawn to safe area would probably be worth testing.  Building webs would just harm revenge fleets after that.  BRS could be nice, at least you can logout.

[Trastámara]

I got bored waiting the patch now im playing something else, i keep an eye in the forum to see if the game is worthy enough to come back. I only see complaints. Seems like its a job now, and there's no action, i went to nation Teamspeak to ask what's going on, they said there's no port battles coz attack is really hard and u'll only feed the enemy by doing it.

 

So , instead of adding more action to it with endgame content like PBs, that content gets shutted down

Edited June 17, 2017 by Trastámara