Hotfix 5 for patch 9.97 - event changes + minor fixes

[Vernon Merrill]

Who hurt you Wind???  Who hurt you?

[manuva85]

Wind if this is the way problems were fixed in the past, than i know why we are where we are...;p   Conecting ganking with demasting...lol Bro you are arguing a lost couse and that went past sad ...

[Jean Ribault]

Gankers punch the sails with chain en masse, in my humble experience, then send maybe one or two to finish you off. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[Sir Texas Sir]

So last night before the servers went down I got tagged by an Indifatible and two connies while I was in a l'ocean on the way back from some mission grinding.   I had one Connie Tag me with the Indifat a bit away from him and the second Connie was way back there.  I had 68 lbrs on my stern for the reason to keep little small ships off my stern.   

I wasn't even trying to demast  the Connnie I was just shooting center sails to destroy his sails. Using ball mostly as he was out of range for chain most the time but did drop a few rounds of that into his sails.  When the tagged started I put a full broad side of balls into his sails from the start (my load in screen to forever I didn't even get a chance to change my prepared guns to chain).    So I knew his mast and sails where prob hit a good bit and should be damaged or where they cause at that distance what is the connies mast thickness?

Mast thickness for ships in fight.

Indifat 113

Connie 113

l'Ocean 131

Not taking into account any other gun than the 68 lbr I have on my stern this it's pens

50m  121

100m 112

250m 82 anything after that is prob going ot be very ineffect as the 500m is 23 an don't even think you could with good tilt get it out that far.

 

So both the Connie and Indifat have the same mast thickness but I assume diffrent HP.  I got a good broad side on the conner when he tried to turn and get my sails with sail shot so he backed off just as the Idifat got in rang of me.  The connie was down to 80 something sails from my  68 lbrs beating on his sails.  I'm going to assume all those mast shots didn't do crap for damage (log listed like 3 points) so all they did was sails and not mast though I saw splinteres every where hitting the center main mast crows nest.   I did the same with the Indifat unitl I got his sails down to the high 80's .  By the time the third connie caught up I was at 70% sails so I popped my sails repair.  I got a good hit on it's board side toowith double charge.  We started to brawl some as I pulled form them with new sails.  Since there was only 5 mins left on the game timer before server went down and the connie was pushing on me I decided to have some fun and board him.  My friendly AI fleet that was close and pulled in had also caught up to us and joined the fight.   I neded up boarding one connie and than pulling away from the other two whent he server went down.  No lost for any one since we all where sent back to friendly port when server comes up, but in that fight I keep hitting the Indifat in the mast over and over with those 68 lbrts at about 100+ meters.  What is the point of having that cannon back there to defend from stern campers now if we can't pen them?   I wasn't expecting to break the connies mast just wanted to slow him down since he was a 4th rate, but a 5 rate I would expect that multi hits to the same part of the mast should be doing some damage to it.  With it's current thickness now I can't pent them and do nothing but damage to sails.  

 

Now the guys had been smart they should of just fall back to 250 range and they could of ate at my sails all they want from a safe distance, but they didn't.  

 

So far the only time I seen folks complain about demasting has been in duels.  Duals aren't OW and not the normal for most PvP fights.  We should not be making changes off duels as the majority of the players don't go for a demast they go for sails as it's a lot more easy to take some one sails down in a fight with multi targets and friendlies than it is to just demast them.

[Ravern]

With all the frigate swarms and ganking of whats left of the server population, i would have thought something like this, that really only benefits someone who is being ganked would be met with a little less saltiness.

Sure it won't stop ganking or even be realistic but maybe could make the game more enjoyable for some, those without clans, speedboats or whatever.  If demasting was your only way to secure victory change tactics.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 minutes ago, Ravern said:

With all the frigate swarms and ganking of whats left of the server population, i would have thought something like this, that really only benefits someone who is being ganked would be met with a little less saltiness.

Sure it won't stop ganking or even be realistic but maybe could make the game more enjoyable for some, those without clans, speedboats or whatever.  If demasting was your only way to secure victory change tactics.

Being able to demast would actually help the little guy.  The gankers don't demast they take yoru sails down.  A solo player that is in a 3 vs 1 can demast one of those three and take them out of the fight and maybe have a more fair chance against 2 so it's more to help them.  Now the only way to demast some one is to be in a group.  This only helps the gankers not the ones being ganked.

[Prater]

Except the problem is it doesn't even affect gankers except to protect their masts.  If the purpose is to discourage them, it doesn't.  Instead it insures their protection.

[van der Clam]

Since devs are on a kick to get rid of "magic" perks that are actually based on logical crew maneuvers, please remove the following magic also:

Pirate Hunter
Pirate
Defense Drill
Expert Carpenter
Doctor

and the two most magical perks of all...
Area Control
Signaling

Plz and ty. I look forward to the next quick patch tonight that removes these.

[Sir Texas Sir]

10 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Since devs are on a kick to get rid of "magic" perks that are actually based on logical crew maneuvers, please remove the following magic also:

Pirate Hunter - Trained crew (Naval military) to be faster to reload.  We saw this in Master N Commander movie. They did drills for such cause the only way they where going to beat the bigger privateer that out gun them was to out shoot them.
Pirate  - Many pirates worked out of a close port/haven so they didn't have to bring a lot of supplies and did strip there ships down for the best speed and such. 
Defense Drill - Crew are trained to defend a ship so they can respond faster to an attack from boarders.  This is more what you talked about DD doing.
Expert Carpenter - The ship has a Ship's Carpenter or more (this is an actual position on ships on this time).  Maybe they have the supplies to do the fast repairs that another ship might not have.  
Doctor - The Ship has a good Surgeon on it that other ships might not have.  Some of these guys where butchers and the cock not actual doctors.  So having some one actually trained can save more crew.  To be honest I think this should be an auto skill for every one that maybe they join after so many levels or just after a battle cause not every one was prob killed in battle, it was just those taken out of the fight.

and the two most magical perks of all...
Area Control - This should be a perk every one gets for free.  I'm sorry being able to leave cause you haven't been hit in a min or more even though I can piss off my deck and hit you is stupid. If your that close to a ship your not going to just magically escape (like coward perk).
Signaling - This one I kinda agree with you but they did have flares back than.  If your close enough to see the flare than your close enough to join.  Though really how bad is it cause I only seen this help the other side cause we didn't have the number or BR.   So really haven't play tested it much and it isn't usefull in the PvP events cause they stay open for 2 mins any way.

Plz and ty. I look forward to the next quick patch tonight that removes these.

Actually every one you just listed can be explained.  

Edited December 23, 2016 by Sir Texas Sir

[van der Clam]

31 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Actually every one you just listed can be explained.  

Yet you can't explain how having enough crew could really cut grappling hooks to prevent boardings? That's funny.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, van der Decken said:

Yet you can't explain how having enough crew could really cut grappling hooks to prevent boardings? That's funny.

Enough FREE CREW.  Bigger ships need more crew to man things like gus and sails.  So why would they have a bunch of free guys more than say a smaller ship.  To me that 25% was to big of a difference.   They would not have that many extra spare free crew to stop it.  I could see keeping it if it was more like 10% or less. It was very unbalances and even more when it was a larger number needed.  And remember it's me that has to have more crew than you do.  That means by your logic I had more crew to throw those ropes and hooks than you had to cut them.  See two can play this game too.  So your logic really doesn't work with that excuse.  The more crew I have the more I would over power your crew cutting way the ropes and such.    

[OneEyedSnake]

Historically masts were blown off often in battle. Id like to see that represented more in the game, masts right now seem to be some godly tree trunks because when i shoot them with several cannon balls comparable to their thickness and they dont break, then you cant really call this game realistic. 

[Guest]

Update just happened, after reviewing mast stats now it seems they were slightly adjusted.

The last update had boosted mast thickness by 10%, now masts seem to be boosted by only 5%.

This is not quite as bad as before, but I really don't understand why anything had to change in the first place. Was there some huge complaint about mast thickness that started all this? 

The result of this adjustment (buffing by 5%) means we only rarely have the problem where it is impossible to penetrate a similar sized ship, but realistically it is still not a viable tactic in many situations. Here are a few examples.

In a surprise duel, demasting is still a possible strategy.

Surprise mast thickness = 79cm

9lb long cannons (largest gun) penetrate 98 - 50m and 80cm - 250m. Clearly this would be a viable option.

 

However I still see a problem for certain ships

Agamemnon mast thickness = 122cm

24lb long cannons (largest gun) penetrate 120cm at 50m...

So one Agamemnon would find it basically impossible to ever demast another. 

 

Also looking at the Trincomalee again, mast thickness = 108cm

18lb long cannons (largest gun) penetrate 109cm at 50m.

So that means point blank range. Once again the thickness buff leaves us without the ability to demast, because nobody in their right mind will be aiming at masts when somebody else is smashing them from 50m or less. 

 

Thank you for listening to the general outcry and responding devs, but please look more carefully at the mast thickness stats for all ships and maybe adjust certain ones individually (instead of a 5% increase for ALL). I think your buff was good for 7th, 6th and some 5th rates. However I still see problems with some of the larger ships becoming completely invulnerable to mast damage in most battles, which isn't historically accurate at all. 

[elite92]

23 hours ago, admin said:

Hotfix was deployed today. 

1. There are now 4 admiralty pop events during the day to bring more timezones into the picture. They alternate daily as before.
2. Capture zones were updated for all ports to take into account first port battle experiences
3. Time to win the port battle if you control all 3 capture zones was slightly increased (from 14 mins to 20 mins)
4. Bug with bow leaks causing abnormal number of leaks due to collider placement - fixed. 

again, another hotfix was deployed today 23/12/2016, patch notes? is it so difficult to release patch notes with the patch in a ealry acces game when we are supposed to be tester? pls be more serious

[Cecil Selous]

I also can't follow Winds argumentation. When I get ganked, my masts are my least concern. I never complained when I lost one (and it rarely happens) and additionally to be able to demast a ship is often the best chance for a positive outcome for the ganked player. Chain is a pain in the arse and it's kinda boring but that's how it is.

Before we introduce some strange solutions to an artificial problem I would rather see a different approach. Back to historical values of all thicknesses in game but on the other hand much lesser accuracy. Combined with a more exact damage model of the rigging like shooting yardarms away, damaged shrouds or damage to standing rigging affecting the masts too. Serious damage to the rigging was the norm in a battle and I have no problem if it is in NA. 

[admin]

Main post updated

Mast thickness was reverted back this morning to the pre-patch level on 4th rates and above. At the moment changes are not in the game, will be done in the next hotfix.
5th rates and below mast bonuses (compared to the pre-patch level) are now 10% (hp) and 5%(thickness). 

[Siegfried]

Sorry admin, I think you wrote wrong here.

8 minutes ago, admin said:

Main post updated

Mast thickness was reverted back this morning to the pre-patch level on 4th rates and above.
5th rates and below mast hp bonuses (compared to the pre-patch level) are now 10% (hp) and 5%(thickness). 

 

The mast reverted today were 5th and below. 4rd rates and above are the same.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Siegfried

[akd]

11 minutes ago, Siegfried said:

Sorry admin, I think you wrote wrong here.

 

The mast reverted today were 5th and below. 4rd rates and above are the same.

Oops. (Unless they were actually intending to make the problem even worse.)

[Ink]

42 minutes ago, Siegfried said:

Sorry admin, I think you wrote wrong here.

 

The mast reverted today were 5th and below. 4rd rates and above are the same.

Indeed, 4rd rates and above fix was not included in today's hotfix by a mistake, will be done in the next one.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, admin said:

Main post updated

Mast thickness was reverted back this morning to the pre-patch level on 4th rates and above. - at the moment changes are not in the game, will be done in the next hotfix.
5th rates and below mast bonuses (compared to the pre-patch level) are now 10% (hp) and 5%(thickness). 

Thank you admin, this sounds perfect.

[Kiithnaras]

Admin, you are the best o7

[Anne Wildcat]

Not sure if it was done in this hotfix or a previous one but thank you for making the pirate perk useful again.

[Puchu]

On 22.12.2016 at 7:11 PM, Wind said:

Devs should stick with 3vs1 ratio (read ^ post) . Like I said before only new players demast in 1vs1 and if you hunt traders in most cases you slightly damage sails and rage board when you tag at the right wind angle. This simply means that Conie can easily fight 3 Frigates and be able to show force and not loose sails fast in gank situations and 'maybe' survive. This makes Naval Action rating system work. Player should know that even with 3 frigates it should be difficult to take on a heavily armed 4th rate and and not suffer casualties. 

Today gankers jump people, demast, sink and get away undamaged. Game breaking imho. 

Just my opinion, please don't get mad.

 

I'm happy to see the mast change reverted, but still something needs to be said about this post. Dont worry, im not mad wind. I just need to add some different observations:

Demasting in duels is something for the highest of skill players. I cannot do it reliably at the moment, im just too bad for it. To make it work you need a very good feeling for timing and ship speeds and angle and so on. So in fact: Only the highest skilled players demast in duels. For all others it's simply better to go for hull or crew.

Today gankers dont straight up demast either, they desail a little first, then they decrew, and if you still run, then they demast, because you need to get stopped somehow

Last thing about chain damage, and this is really important:
Chain has diminishing returns. It is very easy to take off the first 20% of sail within 2 broadsides. From that point on it becomes harder and harder to hit the right spots to take more % down. At 60% sail you will need really good aim to hit undamaged sails and full chain broadsides will take off around 1-5% sail at max. and it becomes really really hard to take down sails below 45%.
Looking at Chaining fights that means, that if both players go for full chaining, it is likely that they both end up at around 50% sails. This is actually not dependent on skill, it's because of the nature of diminishing returns. The time it takes to get someone from 100% to 80% is the same time it takes to get someone from 60% to 55%. (I hope i dont have to explain the mathematical principle how that works) So basically both end up at almost the same sail status (almost) independent of who started first and who shot better.
Once both are at the same sail status again, the fight becomes exactly like the fight was with both players having 100% sails. Which means, that the ship that is faster by default will be faster now, the more maneuverable ship, will be more maneuverable and so that ship will most likely win the engagement after a lot of desailing by both sides which did nothing.
That means that in even duels you can use chain first to get a temporary advantage which you have to use to gain a permanent advantage untill it naturally evens out. (imo a good concept)
But for ganks that means, that after a certain point you cannot slow down the gankers effecively anymore and they will get you in any way, because you cannot under any circumstances in the long run slow them down to a point where you can fight their superior numbers, because there will be a point where you almost cannot chain them anymore and the chain damage advantage you could maybe have gained over time will be eaten up by diminishing returns, so the gankers will catch up in any case. Especially since you have to slow down 2 or 3 or even more enemies. So you cant single one of the enemies out, you cant slow them down to a point where it becomes impossible for them to catch you and you will then die to the overwealming force.
So in fact the mast thickness increase only helped the gankers because with demasting a really good player can actually slow down the enemy to the point where they cant catch him anymore, because he can get them to 0 eventually and it depends on gunnery skills how much better you hit the enemy masts. But with chain being the only way, everyone will end at around 50% sails and then the gankers will simply win by outnumbering the gankee.
If the Connie and the Frigate are both at 50% sails, the frigate just eats the connie alive without taking any damage, and its even easyer for 2 frigates.

[Puchu]

On 22.12.2016 at 9:10 PM, Zoky said:

What's the point in OW when every fight is 1:1? Why not delete OW then and make this game another WoT clone? Forcing fair fights is super quick way to losing players who are interested in OW and everything that brings to the table including fighting when outnumbered and outgunned. Every ******* military academy teaches you to create and fight from advantageous position, and when in disadvantage to retreat and regroup. Forcing 3:1 into 1:1 is so idiotic that english language doesn't even have a word to describe magnitude of that idiocy! Im shocked that anyone can defend this change 

Someone didnt get the memo that we are acually playing a game.

We have endless ressources, noone dies, you can loose as many fights as you want and still keep playing, no children loose their parents, if you loose, nothing happens, you achieved nothing and you lost nothing. The only thing that matters in a game is the fun you had while spending time sitting alone in front of your pc.
And certainly ganking is not fun for anyone. It's a pure waste of time for both sides.
The reason why (some) people (including me) want and only do even fights is because they want a challenge, they find everything else boring. It's a test of skill. It's about who is the better player. Everyone can win vs less players. If you kill 90% the enemy soccer team, you will most likely win the match. But the match wont count. Guess why?

See my friend, that's the difference between a real war and a game. Fighting outnumbered or outnumbering in a game is NOT FUN.

 

And: ppl spend so much time trying to create an advantageous position (usually numbers and shipsize) that the actual fight never happens, which also defeats the whole point of this being a fighting game (If you are in a war, the best fights are the ones that never happen because in fights people die ... on both sides.)

Edited December 25, 2016 by Puchu

[Koltes]

15 hours ago, Puchu said:

Someone didnt get the memo that we are acually playing a game.

We have endless ressources, noone dies, you can loose as many fights as you want and still keep playing, no children loose their parents, if you loose, nothing happens, you achieved nothing and you lost nothing. The only thing that matters in a game is the fun you had while spending time sitting alone in front of your pc.
And certainly ganking is not fun for anyone. It's a pure waste of time for both sides.
The reason why (some) people (including me) want and only do even fights is because they want a challenge, they find everything else boring. It's a test of skill. It's about who is the better player. Everyone can win vs less players. If you kill 90% the enemy soccer team, you will most likely win the match. But the match wont count. Guess why?

See my friend, that's the difference between a real war and a game. Fighting outnumbered or outnumbering in a game is NOT FUN.

 

And: ppl spend so much time trying to create an advantageous position (usually numbers and shipsize) that the actual fight never happens, which also defeats the whole point of this being a fighting game (If you are in a war, the best fights are the ones that never happen because in fights people die ... on both sides.)

I sort of agreed with your previous post regarding demasting. This post however is complete nonsense. Sorry.

Ganging is not a waste of time. Hunters are chasing, prey is running. Its an OW. Its dangerous to sail without escort. There are consequences. How many times do we need to agrue about one simple thing that Open World is for opportunistic PVP. There will be nations and hopefully territories with resources that matter, so there will be trade routes and ganging 1 trader will cause problems for the nation, ganging 5 or 10 might even cripple nations economy. Ganging will become a valuabe tool in fight vs other nations just what privateeres were for. Remove OW free for all type engagement and you WILL lose your PVP player. I guarantee you that most pirates will quit. Your game will become boring as hell PVE sail from A to B and soon PVE players will leave also. 

No thank you very much. Make economy valid and OW dangerous as hell and let players to figure how can they make it safer. How much to pay to escorts, pay privateers to cripple enemy's economy etc.

I'm a pirate and I have made a name of person who likes challenges and will accept 1n1 fights like its my job. In fact I had so many 1n1 that I cant count. Literally hundreds. Be fast, come prepared. Thats my formula. Come to enemy capital and call them out. If you want 1n1 fights you will find them becuase there are other players who want them too. They will comeout in same level ship as you are. Sort this out for yourself, dont change the game to do this for you.