Official approvement of the Three Admirals Treaty by the Dutch Nation High Council

[Cragger]

US allies are now acting because you realized what would happen to you had the treaty been signed as it was initially conceived.

 

Then you went to the forum and begged enough to include you.

 

That means something to me: fear.

 

Do you fear Spain ?  Let's fight alone. Spain vs USA

 

It's a fair war. Let's do it.

 

Hmm, where was this supposed desire for a fair war when you betrayed the U.S. agreements with you and joined in on the pirate assault?

[celtiberoGil]

Spanish Never take a flag against USA and don´t make a blockade fleet when pirates attack them... so were is the betray?

[_Alucard_]

Hmm, where was this supposed desire for a fair war when you betrayed the U.S. agreements with you and joined in on the pirate assault?

 

No, we didn't. Spain had an agreement but a rogue clan can do what they want.

That's what happened and instead of realizing this, your answer was a flag against a Spanish port that had not been taken by this clan, so Spain obviously had all the right to defend that port.

 

Besides, this clan only took ports from pirates, not from USA. If you had bought a flag against those former USA ports, this clan would have to deal with that issue alone.

 

Even today you don't understand this? 

[Cragger]

No, we didn't. Spain had an agreement but a rogue clan can do what they want.

That's what happened and instead of realizing this, your answer was a flag against a Spanish port that had not been taken by this clan, so Spain obviously had all the right to defend that port.

 

Besides, this clan only took ports from pirates, not from USA. If you had bought a flag against those former USA ports, this clan would have to deal with that issue alone.

 

Even today you don't understand this? 

 

A 'rogue' clan that just happened to include all your clan members at the port battle. More like a rogue nation.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Cragger

[_Alucard_]

I just have explained it, if you don't understand it's not my problem.

 

The rogue clan can attack and defend what they want. Is that clear? Ok, so that rogue clan took pirate ports, but, and this is a big "but", instead of attacking those ports, you attacked a Spanish port that all the clans have the right to defend.

 

It's not so difficult, man....

 

 

For example: Rogue clan takes Manataca, you could attack Manataca to retake that port. Instead, you attack Cayo Vacas and all the clans have the right to defend that port. Simple.

Edited August 14, 2016 by _Alucard_

[Cragger]

I just have explained it, if you don't understand it's not my problem.

 

The rogue clan can attack and defend what they want. Is that clear? Ok, so that rogue clan took pirate ports, but, and this is a big "but", instead of attacking those ports, you attacked a Spanish port that all the clans have the right to defend.

 

It's not so difficult, man....

 

 

For example: Rogue clan takes Manataca, you could attack Manataca to retake that port. Instead, you attack Cayo Vacas and all the clans have the right to defend that port. Simple.

 

Wasn't pirate ports. Agreement was to give us Las Tortugas to U.S. . Instead you defended that port claiming it was 'a rogue clan' that clan being RAE and your 'council' claiming RAE had left the council. Yet all your major clans were in the interception fleet in numbers. You showed your true colors there that you where working with the pirates then and people remember.

[_Alucard_]

Wasted time.....

 

Think what you want.

 

The thing here is that you don't want to fight Spain on your own and you need your "allies".

[celtiberoGil]

Wasn't pirate ports. Agreement was to give us Las Tortugas to U.S. . Instead you defended that port claiming it was 'a rogue clan' that clan being RAE and your 'council' claiming RAE had left the council. Yet all your major clans were in the interception fleet in numbers. You showed your true colors there that you where working with the pirates then and people remember.

 

So spanish are traitors for this but you are honorable for blockade ports with dutch fletes. RAE was a rogue clan now spanish council seems be more united and RAE are the council think.

[Johny Reb]

The betrayal wasn't Las Tortugas.

 

No, we didn't. Spain had an agreement but a rogue clan can do what they want.

That's what happened and instead of realizing this, your answer was a flag against a Spanish port that had not been taken by this clan, so Spain obviously had all the right to defend that port.

 

Besides, this clan only took ports from pirates, not from USA. If you had bought a flag against those former USA ports, this clan would have to deal with that issue alone.

 

Even today you don't understand this? 

The agreement between the Spanish and US nation included ports that the Spanish could not have and ports that the US could not have. Therefore, if any rogue clan took one of the forbidden ports then that nation had every right to take it back without worrying about the Spanish Council's interference or the US council's interference. This happened in the gulf when our rogue clans took the southern gulf. We encouraged the SC to take them back and we did nothing to interrupt that undertaking. The Spanish refused to give us the same courtesy and even threatened us if we attempted to retake these ports. So there's the betrayal. There is the breaking of the treaty. Their is the untrustworthiness.

 

If you doubt or don't understand any of this and can't imagine it to be true then ask your primary diplomat at the time. He will clear it up for you. Gaizka was his name and he was an honorable Spanish player.

 

I also know all this stuff because I was there when the agreement was made. Were you?

[BallsOfSteel]

Pixel treatys LOL.

 

Mean squat

[CptEdwardKenway]

Fun fact every time RAE went rogue several other clans joined the RAE party. Same happened when they pulled first flags vs brits. Suddenly the whole nation supported RAE.

But what about just talking to US and let them retake their ports at florida? Instead all I could see was spanish players trollinh US players in global channel about taking all their former ports.

Say what you want but RAE is the head of the spanish nation with or without council. That's the reason why you are at war with brits and US.

[fremen]

Fun fact every time RAE went rogue several other clans joined the RAE party. Same happened when they pulled first flags vs brits. Suddenly the whole nation supported RAE.

But what about just talking to US and let them retake their ports at florida? Instead all I could see was spanish players trollinh US players in global channel about taking all their former ports.

Say what you want but RAE is the head of the spanish nation with or without council. That's the reason why you are at war with brits and US.

 

Never was read so many false asumptions. The RAE is not and never will be the HEAD of the spanish faction, it's simply another clan.

 

Are the US players the trollers, at any moment and supported by british, their "great friends". 

[Fastidius]

in case anyone was confused.  RAE has been a rogue spanish clan since January.   RAE has always attacked ports regardless of alliances.  this has been their rogue clan forever. 

 

spain isn't instigating the dramas and your all screwing them on technicalities with the "but we cant control open world screeners" 

 

Work   out if the treaty is what you want and either stop the screening OR start fighting.

[Grundgemunkey]

US allies are now acting because you realized what would happen to you had the treaty been signed as it was initially conceived.

 

Then you went to the forum and begged enough to include you.

 

That means something to me: fear.

 

Do you fear Spain ?  Let's fight alone. Spain vs USA

 

It's a fair war. Let's do it.

 

only people showing fear is the spanish .....fear is shown by a refusal to fight ...something your nation actually boasts about

 

the idea of a fair war is laughable ...sit and think about it

 

if you want to fight the USA 1v1 you need to start by making alliances with or at least truces with the other nations .. you cant just announce a 1 v1  war ...Britain as a nation  does what its captains decide for the last 4-5 weeks we decided not to attack Spanish ports ..we have decided to honour the 3 admirals treaty ...unfortunately due to Spanish whining and crying and general spoilt brat attitude shown on  the forums ..I doubt Spain will get anymore favours from British Captains

[Jorge]

only people showing fear is the spanish .....fear is shown by a refusal to fight ...something your nation actually boasts about

the idea of a fair war is laughable ...sit and think about it

if you want to fight the USA 1v1 you need to start by making alliances with or at least truces with the other nations .. you cant just announce a 1 v1 war ...Britain as a nation does what its captains decide for the last 4-5 weeks we decided not to attack Spanish ports ..we have decided to honour the 3 admirals treaty ...unfortunately due to Spanish whining and crying and general spoilt brat attitude shown on the forums ..I doubt Spain will get anymore favours from British Captains

Bla bla bla.....

[Potemkin]

The fact of the matter is, as it stands now, spain (and all its players "whiners" and all) are effectively shut out of rvr, which as we all know by now is a huge part of this game. While i dont agree with bringing it to this part of the forum where it will fall on deaf ears and become food for forum justifications, i think alot of this is borne out of frustration at the fact that we can pull flags but probably wont ever plant them, and now even making it to a pb defense in our home waters is a crap shoot.The ability to enter allies PBs and form groups will only exacerbate the situation as we've managed to piss off all of our neighbors (a whole different convo). We all get it, screening is part of the game, and allies will help allies. What i seriously dont get about the forum wars is the inability or purposeful overlooking of the fact that individuals, not the entire nation of spain speak here. You want to wipe us? Do it, dont sit here and justify keeping a portion of the player base in a corner by saying we have no right to speak. At least in the beginning the AUSEZ among others had the balls to state their intentions and follow through with a full scale attack which provided fun content for all. For the record i dont agree with the " we're not playing anymore" argument, nor do i agree with the manner in which some other complaints are voiced, but somethings gotta change because somewhere along the way, this stopped being fun and became one huge shit slinging contest, and its the non forum rank and file who has to eat the shit sandwich.

[Fastidius]

The fact of the matter is, as it stands now, spain (and all its players "whiners" and all) are effectively shut out of rvr, which as we all know by now is a huge part of this game. While i dont agree with bringing it to this part of the forum where it will fall on deaf ears and become food for forum justifications, i think alot of this is borne out of frustration at the fact that we can pull flags but probably wont ever plant them, and now even making it to a pb defense in our home waters is a crap shoot.The ability to enter allies PBs and form groups will only exacerbate the situation as we've managed to piss off all of our neighbors (a whole different convo). We all get it, screening is part of the game, and allies will help allies. What i seriously dont get about the forum wars is the inability or purposeful overlooking of the fact that individuals, not the entire nation of spain speak here. You want to wipe us? Do it, dont sit here and justify keeping a portion of the player base in a corner by saying we have no right to speak. At least in the beginning the AUSEZ among others had the balls to state their intentions and follow through with a full scale attack which provided fun content for all. For the record i dont agree with the " we're not playing anymore" argument, nor do i agree with the manner in which some other complaints are voiced, but somethings gotta change because somewhere along the way, this stopped being fun and became one huge shit slinging contest, and its the non forum rank and file who has to eat the shit sandwich.

 

 

thanks for the shout out.  there were many clans that helped us out with those attacks etc but we certainly have and always will pursue a battle over a circle jerk.  there are many reasons we are pirate but being told not to fight spain when we cant strike anywhere else was one of them

[victor]

I just reread The Three Admirals Treaty. Nowhere in it does it state that any of the nations cannot do that. In fact it says the opposite. It says that open ocean pvp in all territories is allowed without restrictions. The only exception being the buffer islands and ports in the Cayman islands in which the Dutch have a responsibility to enforce.

 

The Dutch have clearly stated their intent to support their ally the United States but within the boundaries of the treaty. Could you please paste the part of the treaty that they have violated because I haven't found it. The words of the treaty matter not the assumptions that people take behind them. That is why a treaty is written and agreed upon by those involved. If you can't produce a violation of a single point within that treaty then there are no facts supporting your claim.

 

Now I am not Dutch but American and therefore you may think its none of my business but we value our reputation as well. The US has always treated with integrity the agreements we have made. We would not want the Dutch to violate their treaty with you without due notice as that would reflect to some degree on our honor as well since they were aiding us. In this case I don't think your claim holds water.

 

If you think their is a misunderstanding then you should seek out the Dutch and attempt to amend the treaty. Until then you will simply have to find another solution.

 

I suggest you to buy new glaesses, mate

 

 

 

G )    Open world Pvp between the 3 signee nations is available in every portion of the map. Blockade fleets are not (open world) PVP

 

 

 

I )    The line which connects the Spanish ports of Santa Maria, Cocodrillo, and Corrientes, and all other ports in Cuba which sit north of it, are de- facto Spanish territories. The port of Trinidad will revert to Spanish control per this agreement. Baja its in north of Cuba and Dutch fleet helped US to take it.

 

 

A blockade flleet has the aim to prevent entering ships in port battle, so it is ALSO an act of RvR war and NOT ONLY a simple OS pvp like the usual brawls or hunts.

 

These are the facts.

 

Al the rest is just the confirmation of another thing: the "big" US faction is not disposed to fight the "little" Spain alone.

Edited August 19, 2016 by victor

[Johny Reb]

I suggest you to buy new glaesses, mate

So your response is simply.... "your wrong" without any "facts" or "quotes" from the document to back up your conclusion?

 

 

A blockade flleet has the aim to prevent entering ships in port battle, so it is ALSO an act of RvR war and NOT ONLY a simple OS pvp like the usual brawls or hunts.

 

These are the facts.

Those are not facts. Those are interpretations. You are capable of telling the difference, right?

Now lets have a lesson in facts....

1. The treaty specifically allows "open water" pvp. Open water is defined as anything other than a Port Battle or sitting in a port screen. It allows it, without restriction. Therefore, any action that is initiated in open water is fair game. There is no prohibition, implication, restriction, etc, in the document that prevents one nation from blockading for another on the open ocean. There is however a definition for what it means to attack another nation. The treaty specifically says that a nation can't "pull a flag" on another.

2.  The Spanish recognized this difference in their first treaty with both the US and the Brits. In that treaty we had the same essential agreements as in the 3 admirals treaty except that the Spanish specifically requested that it would not apply to open water fleets engaged in either carrying a flag or intercepting a flag. Open water pvp was allowed with only one restriction and that was PB fleets. In the 3 admirals treaty they did not request this. The precedent is set. If you want that restriction then you need to put it into the agreement.

3.  The only thing that can be called "fact" is those things that are specifically encouraged or prohibited in the document. Fact is not interpreting the words to fit what you think it should have said because someone else may have an entirely different interpretation. So only the words matter, as has been said over and over. There is a difference between fact and interpretation and you Sir are speaking interpretation which is quite evident because you refuse to use the words of the treaty. You don't use words words because their are no words that say they can't attack a PB fleet in route.

 

Say what you like. Hold fast to your opinion that the Dutch and British shouldn't screen against the Dons but don't claim your opinion is fact. Its important that you respect agreements as they are written or else these agreements will be meaningless. You will always find some perceived wrong done to you or others because you will inject an idea of "the spirit of the agreement" instead of what the agreement says.

 

As I've said before. Why QQ over it all when all that it would take is a renegotiation and an amendment to the agreement. But, alas, it this agreement is at an end anyway so much of this is irrelevant for now.

[Johny Reb]

Al the rest is just the confirmation of another thing: the "big" US faction is not disposed to fight the "little" Spain alone.

BTW, the US and Spain is fairly evenly matched as far as I can tell. There really isn't a "big" US nation and a "little" Spain. Our population as far as I can tell is about equal or at least the fighting population is.

[Aphilas]

BTW, the US and Spain is fairly evenly matched as far as I can tell. There really isn't a "big" US nation and a "little" Spain. Our population as far as I can tell is about equal or at least the fighting population is.

Then why hide behind Brits and Dutch? Go and take a good fight.

[Lord Vicious]

BTW, the US and Spain is fairly evenly matched as far as I can tell. There really isn't a "big" US nation and a "little" Spain. Our population as far as I can tell is about equal or at least the fighting population is.

 

beside they do not beg brit-dutch to screen for them if things go bad  

[CptEdwardKenway]

Never was read so many false asumptions. The RAE is not and never will be the HEAD of the spanish faction, it's simply another clan.

Are the US players the trollers, at any moment and supported by british, their "great friends".

Good joke. Since RAE and their partner clans are the reason for many wars yes they are the head of spanish nation. They make war and peace all other clans can nothing do against that.

And funny spain calling other nation troll nation since spain trolls their enemies for months now. Every single time in global channel I see RAE and their friends trolling others. Oh well they aren't the head of your nation. Lord Vicious said alot of horseshit but he is right with one thing: diplomacy has no legitimation withour a strong force and a powerful clan behind it. RAE is that one clan.

Edited August 21, 2016 by CptEdwardKenway