DeRuyter

Like this one: Amsterdam city flag in use since 1500s. Flown on ships registered in the city.

+1 to @Farrago suggestion. Captains would sometimes be rowed across to different ships in a fleet, like for a meeting with the Commodore. No reason we should allow a Captain to transfer ships in game (with time delay). Of course the famous example in combat is when Commodore Perry left his flagship to take command of the Niagara at the Battle of Lake Erie in 1813.

During the War of 1812 merchants ships sometimes sailed uninsured because the captain could not afford the high wartime rates, kept high in part because of privateers. I would bet the even the EIC had reinsurance with Lloyd's though. Here is an example of insurance for the cargo of gold carried by an RN ship, HMS Lutine . Lloyd's paid out 25,000 pounds on the claim. The ship was lost in a storm and the Dutch claimed the wreck as a war prize. Salvage operations took years and the ship's bell is not in Lloyd's office in London. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Lutine_(1779) @admin A couple of questions and points: 1. What about insuring cargo? I know the OP is about insurance for the ship itself, but often (like modules in NA) the cargo was more valuable than ship. You could add the option to buy insurance upon buying the goods, only good for one voyage and pays if the cargo is sunk or captured. 2. I wanted to bump the point made by @Busterbloodvessel that a ship would have a insurance certificate good until captured or sunk and expires with one payout. Makes sense and avoids griefing by denying payout through capture and multi- use exploit.

Nice work!

@Norfolk nChance You aren't angling for the inclusion of early subs in the game by chance! 😉

One point that jumps out when looking at rigs like the lugger, polacre and xebec is that they often popular in certain areas depending on the prevailing weather conditions. They were also often derived from fishing or other working vessels. The same can be said for US schooner design. Here is a reply I posted on another thread concerning the advantages of US "sharp" schooners with references. I would think that luggers have similar advantages in that they are weatherly and probably good in light wind. I will look for more information on these rigs.

Even in a large fleet battle ships had to keep station in line and this required sail trimming. If you look at single ship actions as @maturin alluded to, some involved a lot of maneuvering and some were just run up and fire at close range. You certainly wanted to reduce sail to your maneuvering sail plan, aka battle sail, at the start of the engagement, weather conditions permitting. Courses were furled not only because of fire risk but also because they add complication and crew to sail handling (they also affect visibility). Certain crewmen on the guns were designated as sail trimmers and would be called away for that task when required. Just keep in mind that even a small amount of maneuvering or speed changes on a square rigged ship requires sail handling which is why in battle you wanted the sail plan that required the least amount of crew. Here is my post from another thread on battle sails with an example of some of the sail trimming and maneuvering that Constitution did when fighting Guerriere:

I don't think @admin was referring to force 10 conditions, but rather the "storm" map from Sea Trials, minus the high waves. Also most people aren't looking at the definition of storm from the Beaufort scale, rather generally bad weather which is what the poll asks. Although the HMS Indefatigable 's most famous engagement occurred during gale force conditions. I agree there are a variety of conditions, and those conditions should have differing effects on the ships. It should be very bad for Le Requin to be sailing around in force 6 or higher conditions for example. For reference the wind in NA appears to be force 4. Ultimately IMO it is only worthwhile implementing different weather conditions if the ships suffer the consequences like rigging damage, reducing sail and inability to fire from lower gun ports (I seem to remember this happened in Sea Trials with high waves). IMO not having some variation in wind force and weather conditions leaves an important part of age of sail strategy and tactics out of the game.

This is a good point. You can make the bad weather more tropical though. Have a rain squall that comes through hard but very quickly for example, or is more localized. There is a rainy season as well. Ships have been wrecked in the Caribbean due to storms and bad weather (providing nice places for us to scuba dive today!). Remember also that the map is large so weather patterns in the Bahamas are different than off the coast of South America for example. I would like to see more diversity in weather and wind conditions, so I say let's test it in the PB.

Just an FYI - Here is some research on Le Requin from a shipyard post giving the 245 number. AFAIK the French sources give this number and Three Decks gives 240 + 5 officers. Bottom line though, you are right she was a French national ship built to counter the "rageboarding" Algerian xebecs stuffed with crew.

@Olikigotho Not to belabor the point about the Baltimore clipper or perhaps schooners in general, but here are some quick references that seem to contradict your assertions about this type of ship. First I would note that most of my secondary sources here all mention the speed as a sought after quality of schooners. I agree that initially the British did not like the schooner, as you noted. Experimental models aside the RN did come to rely on schooners more often after 1800, in particular in the West Indies. The RN contracted a Bermuda yard to build schooners and 29 were built. The were used more as advice and dispatch boats where speed was essential. Also for inshore work where a cutter's deeper draft was a liability. Of course perhaps the most famous British schooner we have in game. "Nelson's Navy" Brian Lavery p. 55. Also Lavery notes that 515 Letters of Marque were issued to US privateers and at least 1345 enemy vessels were captured. p. 259 Also ref to The Chatham series book "The Naval War of 1812". There is a discussion of schooners on pp. 78-79. That brings me to Chapelle who I think you referenced earlier. I also have a copy of "The American Sailing Navy". I can cite a number of references here to the speed of the clipper schooner. Pre-war the navy re-rigged a number of them to brigs spoiling their speed. Vixen , Enterprise and Nautilus were three of these types. (pp. 187-189, 234.). Merchants were continuing to build sharp schooners and improved the pilot boat rig during this time (p234.). Chapelle writes that the first privateers that got to sea in the beginning of the war were the small pilot boats or hastily fitted merchants with 1 gun, however they did have success until the British took countermeasures such as sending escorts and arming merchants. (p.255). At that point the US began building the larger vessels such as the Prince. Chapelle also mentioned that the reputation of the American sharp schooners made them sought after by the French and British in the Caribbean as privateers and also light naval ships. (pp 150-151). Lastly here is a photo of page 292 which I think is directly on point, starting with "It is worthy of comment...": I think this speaks to the success of the design as a privateer and even as naval vessels. Sure they were caught in the right conditions or unlucky as @z4ys posted above, but the clipper schooner was certainly not slow or a failure by any means.

Agreed. I went and re-read the chapter on Pride in "Tall Ships Down" which as you probably know was written one of Pride II's captains. There were multiple factors including hatches, bearing off vs. luffing up and the stays'l sheet unable to be loosed, lack of bulkheads, etc. Interesting you mention rigging because she also had numerous failure of chainplates among other issues. Ultimately the USCG report the proximate cause was the sudden gust of wind but there were a number of issues. Many of which were rectified in Pride II. (same designer as well.). BTW - I have seen Pride II at dock next to Lnyx and the size difference is obvious. The comparison could be between a small pilot schooner versus a purpose built privateer .

First I would say kudos for your research and posts! Regarding the Lynx and other ships in the game that currently still exist or have a modern replica, I believe that the modeling was taken, at least in part, from the actual ships. @admin can confirm but someone I recall reading that. As to the Lynx the shipbuilder acknowledged that she was based on the original but is not an exact replica. If you are in the US you can sail on her too! I can tell you she is fast in light air. Second I think that there are more points to add about Baltimore clippers and in particular the tops'l schooner. A lot of what you said about schooners is dependent on the weather conditions. The schooner rig was suited for the weather conditions on the US eastern seaboard, and so was adopted much more readily than in England. I would note that in NA for gameplay purposes square rigged ships can sail much closer to the wind than they were capable of doing IRL (still making headway at 30 degrees, etc.). So fore and aft rigged ships are made much faster close hauled to account for the loss of that advantage. Also wind is always steady so there is not a situation where the small privateer is overhauled in heavy air by the larger ship or conversely escaping in light air. So a 5th rate or even a large merchant ship may have a higher top speed the question is are the conditions right to hit that speed, or in this case to overhaul the schooner at a given point of sail. The fact that the British choose not to adopt the design does not mean that the design was a failure. To the British the Americans were notorious for over canvassing their ships anyway! I would argue that the continued use of the design speaks not of instability but of success. Considering that speed was necessary to run the blockade in the first place. Consider also that the Baltimore clipper continued into the ACW as blockade runners. Prior to that square rigged ships looking for speed over cargo adopted the clipper hull form. As to the Pride she was hit by a "white" squall an event that could knock down most ships regardless of rig. I know there are issues noted in "Tall Ships Down" but not about the rig in general. Of course they went ahead and built another one with the same hull form and rig. The schooner rig is also easier for a small crew to handle than a square rig. On the topic of privateers I am sure you have a source you can share? I would recommend "A History of American Privateers and Letters of Marque" by George Coggeshall. (1856). It is open source on Google book search. The author was a privateer captain so I know bias, but he uses primary sources for his accounting in general. Another good one is from the British side and contains the court marshal records and letter regarding a battle between RN mail packets Pelham & Monteque and the American Privateer [schooner] Globe. In the end the privateer did fail to capture either ship, but after closely engaging and boarding one she was able to get away even with damaged rigging, from the fresh second one due to "superior sailing". This was after overhauling them quite easily in the first place. Wait, but what does all this have to do with the Endymion ? The Prince beat off a boat attack by the Endymion outnumbered over 2-1 ! I know she was eventually captured a year later but the Navy Board ordered a copy built (according to the wiki anyway). All in good fun for us fans of schooners and shallow water vessels 😉

To me this looks to be a single player game first with an option for limited multiplayer (not MMO style), like UGG. I could be wrong but that's the way I read Nick's description.

Great news. Thanks for the update @admin Looking forward to the patch and lots of new content. Thanks for that. Taking a break atm solving under sea mysteries in Subnautica. hope to have it solved before big UI patch!! 😊

jpjchris you should set your sights a bit higher if you are sailing on the Chesapeake 😎 Like sailing on a tall ship: Sultana, Pride of Baltimore or if you are further north like me you can sail on Kalmar Nyckel which I used to crew on. (A bit before the NA time period but she is the only tall ship in the US with a sprit tops'l). There are also a couple of Skipjacks and more modern schooners around. Sometimes the Lnyx comes down to the Chesapeake - I got to sail on her in Baltimore. Niagara accepts volunteer crew and paying sailors as well but a bit far away. http://sultanaeducation.org/about-sultana/schooner-sultana/ http://pride2.org/ http://kalmarnyckel.org/ As to the Hobies I have sailed both the Wave and its' larger sibling the Getaway. I would recommend going for the larger Getaway if only because it has a jib but more because it is faster and tacks better than the Wave. This summer I sailed a Getaway with 4 teenagers onboard and flew a hull in a 12 knt breeze. You can solo both as well. If I were younger I might go for one of the racing Hobies. I used to race Thistles and Flying Scots at a local club and also crewed on J-24s a few times. I have also sailed on the Hobie trimarans with the foot pedals to control the rudder. These as well as the Wave and Getaway are often found in rental fleets so you can try before buying.

Protected cruiser within time frame:

Looking forward to this game. I would love to do the 1890s period - Spanish American War with Admiral Dewey at Manila Bay. I have played board games onboard the USS Olympia helping to raise money for her maintenance. Very few pre-dreadnoughts and dreadnaughts left afloat.

That depends on a number of things including the point of sail. Keep in mind that reducing sail also reduces heel which helps aiming. Yes sailing in light wind in a quartering sea and you'll roll in the swell. Sailing close hauled under full sail in high wind and you'll be heeling and plunging into the waves (this can be ameliorated by hull shape). Simply clewing up the courses to reduce fire risk was not the only reason ships reduced sail in battle. Battle sails were also the primary maneuvering sails which could be handled by a reduced crew - the rest manning the guns. The more sail you carry the more stress you have on the rig which is going to take damage in battle. There are exceptions which again is dependent on the wind and sea state. Trafalgar was fought in light wind so the British approached under full sail for example. In general though ships didn't maneuver at top speed under full sail unless they were running. Example from log of the Constitution on sighting the Guerriere they took in sail to slow down when beating to quarters: "took in our Top Gallant Sails, Staysails, flying Jib, hauled the Courses up, took the 2nd Reef in the Topsails, and sent down the Royal Yards" That is a significant amount of canvas that was taken in. Later after some exchanges of long range broadsides they set the main t'gallant sail to close in and; "and steered down on his Beam in order to bring him to close action, at 5 minutes after 6 PM hauled down the Jib, and lay the Main Top Sail Shivering and opened on him a heavy fire from all our Guns" Essentially slowing down significantly once in range - in game terms hitting T and manually opposing the main to slow down. So it was not all about speed.

Amsterdam: Another Dutch flag, ensign at stern: More US Ensigns from the Revolutionary war including privateer flags:

The real crime here is a solo hunter sailing around with a maxed out fleet right @Hethwill Searching for all the #nofleets posts.

@vazco Also try Harland's "Seamanship in the Age of Sail". Covers all the manuvers plus detail on the sails and rigging. The downside it is rather expensive.

Actual stats for Le Requin French 24 gun 6th rate 24 x 8 pdr cannon (9 pdr in game) Crew 245 Suggestions to "balance" the ship 1. Fix how it reacts with the pirate refit mod. 2. Reduce or eliminate carronades (or 24 pdr max) and poods (eliminate). 3. Fix sailing profile if needed based on #1 (xebec should not outrun 5th rates downwind) 4. Reduce side HP - these were lightly built ships. Then no need to exclude from PB. Still have a powerful 6th rate fast upwind and must be sailed full manual for best effect. But @admin has already said they are working on a fix anyway.

Chappelle's book is a great source for information on US vessels. Likely to be more than 15 USD though.

Well I think as you say the sea state has a big influence IRL - currently in game the sea state is not much of a factor except for the really small ships. Sailing fast upwind may result in pounding into the waves - a lot of pitch. In many cases sailing downwind will give more stability - talking from sailing experience in tall ships or the perception from the deck not aiming a cannon of course.