Crankey

I'm afraid most of your logic is based on error understandibly as there are a lot of innaccurate posts out there both on this forum and others.. The only advantage over other Razee ships would be that normally older ships would be razee'd rather than build one from new. Older ships would sufffer from perhaps smaller calibre cannon, rot, old rigging styles and condition, old hull design etc etc. Constitution was a well designed and modern 74 Razee'd before it was ever launched, it just never set its hull in the water before it was cut down. It was launched as a Frigate but it was in essence a single deck 4th rate. Its footprint is that of a 3rd rate, its rigging that of a large 5th rate, Its armament that of a heavy Razee. Please don't take this the wrong way my US counterparts who are rightly proud of its heritage and battle record, but she was a bastardised ship very well made and crewed, who kicked the living crap out of 2 smaller 5th rate frigates, 2 6th rate (22 gun frigates) and a 14 gun brig. The larger range of her guns and well built SOL strength hull gave her every advantage in a one to one combat with a regular 18 lb'er frigate. She was an excellent ship for the task she had to do. She was the Graf Spee of the time, commerce raid, engage smaller enemy vessels but avoid conflict with larger vessels as she was too precious to be allowed to take too many risks as the US navy did not have the quantity of ships to risk that they enjoy in more modern times.. Sister ships of the USS Constitution were redesigned as more regular sized 5th rates with 18 lb cannon and smaller hull design. oh and link for those who would like to read a little more, There are many many different forums where similar information is available. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution

Treasonous talk ! I shall have you all court martialled and flogged around the fleet !! You sir... YES you sir, will be obliged to follow the orders of your superior officer and engage the enemy more closely, bring them under your guns and hammer them into submission or your ship becomes so damaged it can no longer maintain gunnery or be unable to manouvre and give chase. At this point you may look to your ship and crews safety but not a moment before. You may signal your ship is in distress, but battle able ships will not be diverted while in contact with the enemy themselves. Pon my soul what a crew of swabs !

Spoken about in many other topics would the Devs consider the following. Saving your ship. (Final release version) Currently at the point your ship is removed from a battle, its sails reduce to zero and your decks are awash. After a few seconds it starts to sink, or does it ? should it ? Would this not be the time at which the game could allow extreme survival mode when the entire crew grab buckets, throw guns over the side and save their ship and their lives. Historically it was considered bad luck to learn to swim it was save the ship or drown for many. Ships boats would have normally been cast adrift before battle commences both to save them from damage and also reduce the risk of splinters from them when on board. There could be a whole minigame where a player reacts to the emergency situation and has to direct their remaining crew and officers to specific tasks and changing emergencies and to sacrifice varying ship equipment and stores in order to save the ship. If you save your ship perhaps the majority of your crew is saved, if you cannot save your ship, perhaps just some of your crew survive, lashed to rafts etc. We have to assume that your ship surviving the battle and crew surviving a battle even if your side are defeated will in the end release game be of some advantage.

I believe the Devs said that this would be actionable once the software had undergone optimisation. Whilst currently it would overstress the system.

We need to remember the Devs time restriction on inclusion. But lets not forget the American strength was in its Super heavy frigates, its smaller vessels and of course its crews general high morale. Let us hope that Morale makes it into the game in some form.

Doesn't "IGNORE COMMANDS ADDED TO CHAT FUNCTIONALITY" mean I shouldn't use them yet ? Nice one Admins, I think you just cut down your future Tribunal workload by 50%

I do see you're point here but would that not contravine the xp farming rules...

Thanks for the reply but just to be clear, this isn't about the Open World game. Only the current Alpha arena testing system

Perhaps, but at the same time perhaps the remaining 'score of the losing side could be shared amongst the victors

At the moment we have to sink every single ship in order to win. You may have 4 SOL and 6 frigates on your side alive at the end of the counter period with 1 enemy Lynx still alive. The result is a draw. Once critical point is reached, couldn't we impliment a player vote to offer to finish the game slightly earlier rather than forcing everyone to chase down that solitary and occasionally DC'd ship ? I would imagine that reaching a 75%-80% advantage in the game would be sufficient to call the match early. We could discount any ships that were flooding faster than they could pump so that they not influence the decision.

Thanks Richard. For assisting a sinking ship I would rather see a striking feature and have its own crew save her while she drifted out of the combat zone. Assisting the ship after the battle I think would be a nice feature in the open world map. (This would cost less players their ship sunk, but would still effectively remove them from continuing the current combat.) o7 Salute

Ports. All of my comments below are relate to coastal locations. I see no point in pondering if inland zones have any value to the game at this time, aside from supplying suitable resources to its nearest coastal locations. Raw materials, crew recruitment potential etc. Major Naval countries of the world have a historically good starting infrastructure already in place. Assuming we have historical placement of the Nations perhaps pre determined towns/harbours reflect a point in history for creating start locations for each nation involved. (Any country that the game has starting Flags for perhaps) Major Ports. Defences, Known Resources, Major Ship Building facilities, Dry Docks, Major Economic Districts. Expensive Player investment area. Lesser Ports. Minor Defences, Some known Resources, Minor Ship Careening facilities, Minor Economic District. Average Player investment area. Minor location. Fishing Village, Unknown Resources, Undeveloped. Cheap Player investment area. (Possible player selected locations, Pin on a coastline map - we'll build here) Lesser and Minor could be reclassified as Player investment expands them, or indeed they are targetted and reduced due to military action. Some restrictions on what can be developed until reaching a higher classification. (No Major ship building facilities if the rest of the location has remained the basic fishing village etc.) Each stretch of coast no matter how remote would have the potential to become a player base area by upgrading a 'fishing village', Not only providing Guilds a base to work from but the investment will potentially locate a good raw material resource, and create somewhere that may be worth defending and fighting over. Minor Nation Champions It may even be possible for guilds to decide that they wish to champion a minor nation and if they are the only guild doing so, they can 'vote' for which major coalition they become allied to.

I think this subject is already discussed. The general consensus was that after battle assistance could be rendered but not during. Possibly the ability to 'lower boats' could be done to save survivors who don't take any part in the rest of the battle unless just spectating. Once battle is over surviving ships sharing stores between them on the high seas could be done to assist a damaged ship get into port. Of course this all depends on whether or not we have any reason to save crew, or if stores are consumed, damage retained in the open world game..

I agree, I would love to have a more 'realistic' system. However we currently don't have one so my post is designed to tweak the current system in a simple (Less developer time required) format for the time being while we are still in the arena test stages. (I should have made that clearer in my opening post)

My proposal is that the current options be modified to the following. (I should point out this is only to modify the current simple method we are using during testing, not as a final proposal for game release) All repairs take longer to complete. (Double the time) Repairs not used when the ship is in Survival mode produce only 50% effect Unrated: Yachts, Lynx's, Cutters, Privateers, Brigs, Navy Brig, Snow get 1 repair patch Frigates get 2 repair patches All Sols get 3 repair patches. Optional 1st Rates get 4 My concern is that ships are fully repairing from a shattered hull back to full health, or completely dismasted to all masts repaired, when really only emergency measures should be possible mid battle. What are your thoughts guys

HMS Soggy Bottom Pump'Ardour FishnFashenFishnFashen (Mutley quote)

I'm OLD not DEAD ! for that 3rd Double shotted broadside from your Santi into enemy Victory

The reduced weight of a carronade should count for a lot on ship mass, its reduced range single shot is compensated by being probably up to triple the long gun wieght of ball for extra damage. decks of 6 lber long gun or 18 lber carronade. They were faster to reload than their comparable long gun. They used less gun charge (better for the player if we 'buy' or otherwise have to resupply our ships with powder) Double I would say no, the combined grape 'shell' was certainly present, but I believe even shorter range than single ball ? long guns may have double shot, or single shot and grape, or even double shot and grape. Extra powder needed but much less range, the last only good for almost yard arm to yard arm.

Tried again this morning and my client starts normally through steam. I'm pleased i was able to get back into the game, but would like to understand the issue further if anyone can enlighten

posted a bug report. have uninstalled and reinstalled to no avail. some players seem able to get into game, others were kicked mid game like myself and attempting to join ends up a "Connection Error"

You wouldn't generally anchor mid ocean. Unless you were a mortar vessel or somehow blockading a channel in relatively shallow waters it would be very unlikely a ship would anchor. "Sir I have this really good idea for bringing our other broadside to bear in seconds..... "No bottom zir" damn ! scratch that sir my mistake" Apart from anything else, it all took time if you were attaching springs and manouvring your vessel this way. A glorious waste of time for our normal battle occasions I imagine. The glamorous manouvres often read in semi fictional novels of dropping an anchor out of the opposite beam to bring the head round in an emergency manouvre would be an extremely risky manouvre for the ship and I imagine occasions during battle when this ocurred were extremely rare in several hundred years of sailing men of war. "Thank god all the masts are still standing, we havent broached too, and we can now give that enemy ship a good old double shot and grape to finish it off what ! jolly good show sir I give you joy of your victory" You would anchor to shelter from a storm in the lee of a landmass, or when in a harbour or natural bay. If you had to leave your safe anchorage in a hurry then slipping your anchor etc was a viable manouvre. Would we see it or need to use it in game is debatable but I guess that is what this thread is about.(Partially)

Wind, sea state and or current would exert pressure against the surface of the vessel. A combination of the strength of these factors combined with the surface area and shape of the vessel (Sails set etc) would determine how that vessel would drift and turn. In a gale / storm force wind, ships could run under spars only, so no sail set, or at the most a 'corner' of a sail deployed to keep steerage. While we enjoy different sea states in game atm, I don't believe we have the effects of different strength wind on the ships exposed surfaces or potential danger to the rigging if too many sails are deployed. I don't believe current exists in the game and the sea state which when heavy should have a pressure against the hull in reality, I think merely produces the ships 'bobbing up and down' and blocking cannon balls when fired into a raised wall of water. A large wave hitting the bow of a ship from either beam doesn't seem to exert any sideways pressure which would require additional steering to compensate for. So I think we have to wait and see what is practical for the Devs to put into the game and we can then work on relative effets on the vessels. Could a ship turn without sails set. Not without some form of pressure, provided by wind, sails, oars, anchor lines, current etc.

Following/during the revolution France was the first country since Sparta to Nationally conscript its army from the masses, therefore it dwarfed every nation that supported just a professional volunteer army. In essence you could compare the british and French naval and Army might as a having the opposite structure. Britains standing army was small but its navy huge, France had the reverse.

Yes they had a chance historically in certain times and situations, remember this is a Naval game where everyone has a chance balance is down to the players to strive for. Important to remember:- Ability is different to Quantity. Also remember that a lot of the general knowledge of the French sailing abilities has come from the massive amount of material based in the Napoleonic wars. 1799 onwards. This is quite late in the general timescale the game takes place in. The French revolution 1787 - 1799 cost the lives of many of Frances naval leaders, admirals to captains as a result of links to the aristocracy or merely siding with the Royalists had them introduced to the guillotine one way trip of a life time. The quality of its naval officers was generally much reduced for many years to come as a result. Prior to 1787 France had many more experienced leaders capable of giving challenging the British. However the cost of Frances land armies meant less funding for its Navy, and the British spent more on their navy with the intention of being larger than their next two rivals combined. So the pressure from a much larger British fleet led to fewer instances when the French could challenge it.

Very good point OP. Looking forward to all aspects that would have effected a sailing ship being in game. Do we know what the Devs have planned yet as far as outstanding effects is concerned ? Without a bare minimum of sail set to hold/balance a vessels heel it would roll at the whim of the ocean waves. This would definitely NOT be good for gunnery unless the sea state was dead calm or close to it.