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Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

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4 hours ago, Cortez said:

When the battle is over, teleport automatically both sides into the ports where they started.No choosing options.Just kick them into their starting ports.

Fair chances for all to start another battle if they want.

 

Sure I would love this.. not like I wouldnt exploit the hell out of it with my trade ship.  I would be out in the middle of nowhere, attack an NPC ship and then run from it and teleport BACK over an hour to where I started after getting a shipwreck.  

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5 hours ago, Cortez said:

When the battle is over, teleport automatically both sides into the ports where they started.No choosing options.Just kick them into their starting ports.

Fair chances for all to start another battle if they want.

 

I am not sure I agree with your idea of fair. If I sail an hour to kill you and you sailed 3 minutes what was the point? Typically I sail somewhere to gain control of the area I am in. If I beat you I believe I have earned the right to stay there.

Your idea sounds more like a battle ground instance not a function of OW RvR.

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19 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Your idea sounds more like a battle ground instance not a function of OW RvR.

His idea sounds like Naval Action Legends.

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5 hours ago, Tenet said:

 

I lured you into a gank with my Reno, coordinated the fleet and burned your speed-build upgraded heavy frigate.

The battle resulted in some losses because another person overruled my calls and split the fleet - pulling people out the battle to save a straggler. That straggler was not part of the pursuit force and should have been abandoned to sink in punishment. We were not compelled to split, and had we stayed together no one else would sink. 

Tenet's post proves my entire point.

Purge has counter tactics for Revenge Fleets and Tenet has counter tactics to counter tactics that counter Revenge Fleets. Then we work on countering, the countering to the countering?

In a nutshell if players would start thinking for themselves and stop asking the developers to do it for them NA has given everyone the ability to deal with these "tactics". I am sure Tenet is planning my next demise very carefully based on our last encounter. This is why revenge fleets are good for the game. They make players think, they make players better and therefore make the game more challenging and entertaining.

I am sorry that some of you can't solo as easily as you think you could before. However people are still doing it and doing it well. That tells me that revenge fleets are a player problem not a developer problem.

 

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19 hours ago, Vllad said:

I don't give a two hoots about realism and Age of Sail crap. My boat is no different than driving an Ogre in EQ, a Centaur Barbarian in Shadowbane or manually towing a 10 ton AT gun in WWII on-line. Having realism in a computer game is living in the land of unicorns and lollypops. It just doesn't exist and it is absolutely moronic to expect it.  

I play games based on the set of rules the developers give us and learn to beat my enemy with the rules I am given.

Vllad, isn't there another MMO out there that has more engaging gameplay for you, where you can discover the meta and find loop holes in the mechanics that you can exploit? Because, honestly, please let those of us with an interest in this niche have our little "hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox immersing players into the experience of the most beautiful period of naval history"...There are surely games out there that cater to your needs. Don't want realism? Hey, perhaps look into that new Ubisoft game...

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7 minutes ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

Vllad, isn't there another MMO out there that has more engaging gameplay for you, where you can discover the meta and find loop holes in the mechanics that you can exploit? Because, honestly, please let those of us with an interest in this niche have our little "hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox immersing players into the experience of the most beautiful period of naval history"...There are surely games out there that cater to your needs. Don't want realism? Hey, perhaps look into that new Ubisoft game...

Well said Niels.

The answer to your question is no there isn't any quality MMO's anymore that offer PVP or more to the point RvR PVP. So many of them are fatally flawed. NA is moving in the right direction but the question is who is driving the bus?

The players like yourself who justifiably just want a beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox or players like myself who want quality RvR PVP game. They at times seem mutually exclusive which is why we have the debate on so many player driven issues.

I guess only the developers know that and they aren't the most talkative bunch.

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26 minutes ago, Vllad said:

I am sorry that some of you can't solo as easily as you think you could before. However people are still doing it and doing it well. That tells me that revenge fleets are a player problem not a developer problem.

The only people that seem to not encounter the battle camping issue appears to be:

1. People that sail fore-aft vessels.

2. People that play on global server.

3. People like yourself who enjoys playing with 10-24 other people.

 

Could be that I'm wrong ofcourse.

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14 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Well said Niels.

The answer to your question is no there isn't any quality MMO's anymore that offer PVP or more to the point RvR PVP. So many of them are fatally flawed. NA is moving in the right direction but the question is who is driving the bus?

The players like yourself who justifiably just want a beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox or players like myself who want quality RvR PVP game. They at times seem mutually exclusive which is why we have the debate on so many player driven issues.

I guess only the developers know that and they aren't the most talkative bunch.

 

Well, currently it seems they want to cut away a part of the community by offering them a battle simulator, I assume a bit like Sea Trials. So, that will suck up a good quantity of PvP-players that would otherwise populate the OW.

For the main game with an OW, that I assume will still be the focus, we have only received such hints from admin as: "those are not revenge fleets, but actually home defence fleets", which perhaps indicates what has been pointed out by some here, that the developers are at this moment catering for the big RvR groups - possibly because they are more numerous (though less outspoken on the forums).

I wonder how fun the RvR players will think the game is when the game is only populated by their own kind. No sailing out to take revenge on those pesky OW PvP-ers (or "gankers"). It'll only be hauling goods in an empty OW [irony]hey, why not just do away with sailing as well? Bring back teleporting with goods![/irony] and then sailing out to do pre-arranged port battles. Excepting of course the very few players like yourself who will revel in the possibility to lure the unsuspecting non-PvP oriented RvR-players into "counter-revenge-gank-ganks".

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Quote

The only people that seem to not encounter the battle camping issue appears to be:

Can I add?

4: Green zone campers

5: PVE/Traders who have an issue with not being able to get a instant victory and get the ship they just lost back immediately 

6: People who are too lazy to go raid enemy waters to get revenge like how it should be

 

 

Edited by SeaHyena

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17 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

The only people that seem to not encounter the battle camping issue appears to be:

1. People that sail fore-aft vessels.-What is wrong with these ships?  They were more common than your big SoLs and 5th rates.

2. People that play on global server.-are you being an elitest implying that EU is better than Global?

3. People like yourself who enjoys playing with 10-24 other people.- Teamwork is good in a MMO, which means Massively Multiplayer Online game... Notice the Massively Multiplayer part.  

 

Could be that I'm wrong ofcourse.

You say this like any of these things are bad things?

 

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14 minutes ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

 

Well, currently it seems they want to cut away a part of the community by offering them a battle simulator, I assume a bit like Sea Trials. So, that will suck up a good quantity of PvP-players that would otherwise populate the OW.

For the main game with an OW, that I assume will still be the focus, we have only received such hints from admin as: "those are not revenge fleets, but actually home defence fleets", which perhaps indicates what has been pointed out by some here, that the developers are at this moment catering for the big RvR groups - possibly because they are more numerous (though less outspoken on the forums).

I wonder how fun the RvR players will think the game is when the game is only populated by their own kind. No sailing out to take revenge on those pesky OW PvP-ers (or "gankers"). It'll only be hauling goods in an empty OW [irony]hey, why not just do away with sailing as well? Bring back teleporting with goods![/irony] and then sailing out to do pre-arranged port battles. Excepting of course the very few players like yourself who will revel in the possibility to lure the unsuspecting non-PvP oriented RvR-players into "counter-revenge-gank-ganks".

An arena game with port battles would save a lot of frustrations among the playerbase IMHO.

The atmosphere around this game where good and constructive until it got too much EVE online and less action with new ships and nations in it. It's too complicated and too time consuming now and everyone are complaining. Thegame has lost a lot of its original aurora where we could sail out in ships and destroy eachother and advance down the road.

Bring this back or die slowly...

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14 minutes ago, Hodo said:

You say this like any of these things are bad things?

 

Sorry but that was not my intention.

No those 3 things are not bad. That some people enjoy fore-aft vessels is awesome!

I have nothing against the global server. However the playernumbers are about half of EU during the 2 servers respective peak times. Alas there will be less revenge fleets and battle camping.

Its fine that some people enjoy sailing big fleets and are more focused on RvR than OW PvP. But why should there not be room for solo/small group OW PvPers? 

As for your mmo comment. Mmo simply means that the game can be played by a a large amount of people at the same time...

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10 hours ago, Hodo said:

Sure I would love this.. not like I wouldnt exploit the hell out of it with my trade ship.  I would be out in the middle of nowhere, attack an NPC ship and then run from it and teleport BACK over an hour to where I started after getting a shipwreck.  

If anybody wants to solve the "revenge fleet" problem, that might be the only way, when battle is over eveybody gets kicked to their starting ports.

I see no other solution.

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there is nothing wrong with revenge fleets! there is no problem...

you just need to learn where/when you can attack players and maybe have a safe get away. The only places that revenge fleets happen are pretty much near nation capitals, or after a v. long fight against a valuable target... but even then u learn time of day/nation (not all are good a protecting home waters) and it's fine. But tbh - some of the best battle are the secondary battles. So my 2 penny -

NO - to telephoning to port after battle

NO - to changing position in OW after battle

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:lol: 

Are we still here?

There is no revenge fleet. Have I not said this in the past?

pub?w=725&h=374

There is only incoming ships from multiple queues into OW going for the next tag & battle.

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Simply increasing invisibilty to 60 seconds will ensure that one can escape with better reliablity, a revenge fleet will have to spread out much further than before

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but needs a bigger 'you cannot attack or enter battle' timer aswell then

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At the same time, I don't think we need to change anything, it's already pretty easy for people to camp outside of a capital and gank everything in and out and outrun anything that can challenge the ganker.

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On 6/30/2017 at 10:11 AM, TommyShelby said:

The only people that seem to not encounter the battle camping issue appears to be:

1. People that sail fore-aft vessels.

2. People that play on global server.

3. People like yourself who enjoys playing with 10-24 other people.

 

Could be that I'm wrong ofcourse.

We have the problem still, it is just easier to get away.  The cutter might not have the same luck.  I havent sailed my pickle because I think it will be susceptible to revenge ganks.

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Just now, Digital Wind said:

At the same time, I don't think we need to change anything, it's already pretty easy for people to camp outside of a capital and gank everything in and out and outrun anything that can challenge the ganker.

Ganking happens in nearly every MMO, but no other MMO I know has to deal with the revenge fleet phenomena, why that is I think has been explained enough often.

And you can have a 15 knot surp or whatever, if the revenge fleeters are any smart, they will position a few good ships at your best point of escape (wind wise) - and a few backup ships in case you want to run into another direction - It really does not take a genius - 30 sec invis timer is basically a joke at the moment - But I've got some hope left, as I've seen admin taking up the suggestion of increased speed during invis. in one of his posts last week

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1 hour ago, Liquicity said:

- But I've got some hope left, as I've seen admin taking up the suggestion of increased speed during invis. in one of his posts last week

 

That won't change anything accept the size of the circle surrounding you. Invis and Invul is not the answer. 

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7 minutes ago, Vllad said:

 

That won't change anything accept the size of the circle surrounding you. Invis and Invul is not the answer. 

At some point you will need to have a much bigger revenge fleet if you want to accomplish it though - 30 sec invis radius is pretty small, so not really hard to anticipate - 45sec - 60sec invis and speed boost will increase the radius by quite a bit, and gives the guys in battle at least a chance

I'm all for at least giving it a test

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1 hour ago, Liquicity said:

At some point you will need to have a much bigger revenge fleet if you want to accomplish it though - 30 sec invis radius is pretty small, so not really hard to anticipate - 45sec - 60sec invis and speed boost will increase the radius by quite a bit, and gives the guys in battle at least a chance

I'm all for at least giving it a test

I think it's a good suggestion and definitely worthy of being tested.

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