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Trying to solve revenge fleet problem


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Just now, TommyShelby said:

Which is exactly what we've been saying in all of the topics about this issue :P

i know .... it still doesnt mean that been able to warp in from 200km away in 20 mins attack a player ..then warp back 200km with no risk of been caught is a good idea

it will be abused by the gankers not the true PVPers

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3 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

i know .... it still doesnt mean that been able to warp in from 200km away in 20 mins attack a player ..then warp back 200km with no risk of been caught is a good idea

it will be abused by the gankers not the true PVPers

If the games supposed to be hardcore and realistic i guess ganking with no or reduced revenge fleets should be considered as normal. There are other MMOs / MMORPGs where you only have one instance, not the two we have in NA and ganking happens regularly, without after a battle new players spawning / teleportinv in. (Example: Gloria Victis)

If you dont like players being able to gank in an MMO, I hate to say it, you may be playing the wrong type of game.

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6 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

i know .... it still doesnt mean that been able to warp in from 200km away in 20 mins attack a player ..then warp back 200km with no risk of been caught is a good idea

it will be abused by the gankers not the true PVPers

I don't see how this is the same. At all.

Read the different suggestions how to fix revenge fleets (aka battle campin lazy bastards wanting instant gratification/revenge). There are plenty that don't involve teleport. 

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Just now, Liquicity said:

If the games supposed to be hardcore and realistic i guess ganking with no or reduced revenge fleets should be considered as normal. There are other MMOs / MMORPGs where you only have one instance, not the two we have in NA and ganking happens regularly, without after a battle new players spawning / teleportinv in. (Example: Gloria Victis)

If you dont like players being able to gank in an MMO, I hate to say it, you may be playing the wrong type of game.

im not against ganking ..just a balance where the gankers run the risk of a revenge fleet ... you keep going on about hardcore and realistic ... its not hardcore or realistic where you can attack outside an enemy port ... win .. but be able to repair all damage to your your ship and re man your crew instantly ....

if you want hardcore and realistic .. and also the ability to dissapear into thin air ..with a fully repaired ship and crew ... i hate to say it  you dont understand what hardcore and realistic is :)

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5 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

I don't see how this is the same. At all.

Read the different suggestions how to fix revenge fleets (aka battle campin lazy bastards wanting instant gratification/revenge). There are plenty that don't involve teleport. 

i dont believe  i mentioned teleport ...

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3 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

im not against ganking ..just a balance where the gankers run the risk of a revenge fleet ... you keep going on about hardcore and realistic ... its not hardcore or realistic where you can attack outside an enemy port ... win .. but be able to repair all damage to your your ship and re man your crew instantly ....

if you want hardcore and realistic .. and also the ability to dissapear into thin air ..with a fully repaired ship and crew ... i hate to say it  you dont understand what hardcore and realistic is :)

Youve got a 3 min join timer which is more than enough time to even give ships in port the possibility to join. It simulates whether or not friendlies are in range to help out.

As for the repairs

Im not a fan of endless repairs. I liked the system of one repair per battle better. Had to be careful when to use, strategical meaning. The Connie also broke off for a short time in the engagement vs the java to repair the most urgent stuff.

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1 minute ago, Liquicity said:

Youve got a 3 min join timer which is more than enough time to even give ships in port the possibility to join. It simulates whether or not friendlies are in range to help out.

As for the repairs

Im not a fan of endless repairs. I liked the system of one repair per battle better. Had to be careful when to use, strategical meaning. The Connie also broke off for a short time in the engagement vs the java to repair the most urgent stuff.

maybe if there had been other british ships just over the horizion ..this would have given them time to close in on the battle and help the Java ,,,or catch the Connie  as she finished the Java off ...a revenge fleet so to speak

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6 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

maybe if there had been other british ships just over the horizion ..this would have given them time to close in on the battle and help the Java ,,,or catch the Connie  as she finished the Java off ...a revenge fleet so to speak

"Over the horizon" and not "docked up in a port across the map and being called for to wait on the exact battle location in a 5th dimension"

Also, that is not a revenge fleet but would translate to ships within 3 minutes range to join. Revenge fleet would be if the java called for fallout constitutions to come beam across and take on their poor brother.

Edited by Liquicity
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9 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

"Over the horizon" and not "docked up in a port across the map and being called for to wait on the exact battle location in a 5th dimension"

you keep bringing up the connie and the java as an example .... this fight took place off the coast of brazil ... two ships that came across each other in the middle of nowhere

put that into game context its like two players meeting halfway between kidds and bermuda .... there will be no revenge fleet

had the connie and the java had a battle 30 miles off portsmouth ... the fleets at the nore ..(thames estuary) and  along the south coast of england .. plymouth , falmouth , portland etc .. would have had plenty of time to set sail and intercept the Connie .. even in 1800 the onshore signalling was far faster than a ship could sail ...

your use of the connie and javas encounter isnt a very good one ..in context to your argument if you wish to recreate it you should sail away from ports and attack the odd player you see in the middle of nowhere

 

Edited by Grundgemunkey
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1 minute ago, Grundgemunkey said:

you keep bringing up the connie and the java as an example .... this fight took place off the coast of brazil ... two ships that came across each other in the middle of nowhere

put that into game context its like two players meeting halfway between kidds and bermuda .... there will be no revenge fleet

had the connie and the java had a battle 30 miles off portsmouth ... the fleets at the nore ..(thames estuary) and  along the south coast of england .. plymoth , falmouth , portland etc .. would have had plenty of time to set sail and intercept the Connie .. even in 1800 the onshore signalling was far faster than a ship could sail ...

your use of the connie and javas encounter isnt a very good one ..in context to your argument if youn wish to recreate it you should sail away from ports and attack the odd player you see in the middle of nowhere

 

Unless they saw her, how would they know?

Besides, due to the lack of ow content there is little to no reason for anyone to even be "in the middle of nowhere" ingame.

Maybe I was wrong to approach NA as a ow pvp game. Seems like its got no more room at the games cuttent state.

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10 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

had the connie and the java had a battle 30 miles off portsmouth ... the fleets at the nore ..(thames estuary) and  along the south coast of england .. plymouth , falmouth , portland etc .. would have had plenty of time to set sail and intercept the Connie .. even in 1800 the onshore signalling was far faster than a ship could sail ...

Oh and yeah okay. But they certainly didnt profit from rocketpoweted speedboosters to catch the conie, or did they?

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4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Unless they saw her, how would they know?

Besides, due to the lack of ow content there is little to no reason for anyone to even be "in the middle of nowhere" ingame.

Maybe I was wrong to approach NA as a ow pvp game. Seems like its got no more room at the games cuttent state.

come on mate ..two ships having a battle in the middle of busiest sea lanes in the world even in the 1800s no one would have seen it ...

my point stands if your going to attack a ship just off the capital of a nation ... whether in game or in real life 1800s ..theres a good chance your not going to get away

the there is no players in ow in the middle of no where .. isnt true ... just not one every 10 minutes

 

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5 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

the connie didnt have rocket powered boosters either to get away

Which it wouldnt need if there were no  bs revenge fleets catching up with rocket engines:)

To the 1st quote:

Outside a capital you will never pick off someone solo as capitals are busy and youve got a 3 min join timer which lets you cover quite a range in OW. However if you want pvp you will have to be in enemy waters as that is the only place to where you can expect to find players. And as long as you are in enemy waters you will get revenge fleeted by rocketpowered ships because they will then be alerted of where to camp and wait for the player to leave.

In the middle of nowhere I only ever met one indiaman doing a trade run. But personally I dont consider going after only 1 trader as pvp.

Give players a reason to leave their waters and give them content in OW to promote pvp as revenge fleets will probably never be dealt with.

Edited by Liquicity
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1 minute ago, Liquicity said:

Which it wouldnt need if there were no  bs revenge fleets catching up with rocket engines:)

To the 1st quote:

Outside a capital you will never pick off someone solo as capitals are busy and youve got a 3 min join timer which lets you cover quite a range in OW. However if you want pvp you will have to be in enemy waters as that is the only place to where you can expect to fins players. And as long as you are in enemy waters you will get revenge fleeted by rocketpowered ships.

In the middle of nowhere I only ever met one indiaman doing a trade run. But personally I dont consider going after only 1 trader as pvp.

Give players a reason to leave their waters and give them content in OW to promote pvp as revenge fleets will probably never be dealt with.

to be fair i dont disagree ... but everyday i see in national chat ....2 spanish (insert ship)  off carlisle ,,, 1 pirate off morant .....you leave port and they attack a ship ..you get there just as the battle closes and cannot get in ... what happens now ,,, we return to port because in real life we wouldnt have got there in time ..????

you have a mechanic that allows the attacker to escape with no risk ... they just jump into a battle with the nearest ship or even ai ,,, and then escape to safety is no better than the revenge fleet .. its not a soloution

we just have another thread people complaining about been unable to defend their home waters against attackers ,,,

maybe the old pvp events are a better idea ..

 

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2 hours ago, Grundgemunkey said:

true mate and thats the whole problem ..its not TS or chat..its that those in the battle instance are at real time when everyone else is at warp speed

That's the point!

Hence, the following suggestion:

Provided that we all wanna keep chat and TS (to abandon this would btw solve the revenge fleet issue immediately - however, a very drastic way, I admit ;-), maybe a zone/circle could be implemented around any battle location in OW, in which only "in battle speed" would be possible. Maybe with the diameter of the equivalent of the arena. So that any revenge fleet could approach as well only with battle speed when entering this "pre-arena" zone (adjust battle entry timer correspondingly). Thus, if a skilled ganker is fast enough to capture/sink his victim in short time, he - being dropped as well in this zone after battle - might have a realistic chance to escape from the approaching revengers, while the revenge fleet might have a realistic chance to get him...

The OW warp speed is only necessary because of the big map. But here imho a solution must be found for the transition phase from macro world into micro world...

Edited by Flankengott
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OW pvp event zone was good. But need special rules for it otherwise will have revenge fleets there aswell.

Maybe have a permanent pvp event zone area for people actually "willing" to pvp, rather than forcing pvpers to attack newbs and makr them quit?

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4 hours ago, Cortez said:

When the battle is over, teleport automatically both sides into the ports where they started.No choosing options.Just kick them into their starting ports.

Fair chances for all to start another battle if they want.

 

Sure I would love this.. not like I wouldnt exploit the hell out of it with my trade ship.  I would be out in the middle of nowhere, attack an NPC ship and then run from it and teleport BACK over an hour to where I started after getting a shipwreck.  

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5 hours ago, Cortez said:

When the battle is over, teleport automatically both sides into the ports where they started.No choosing options.Just kick them into their starting ports.

Fair chances for all to start another battle if they want.

 

I am not sure I agree with your idea of fair. If I sail an hour to kill you and you sailed 3 minutes what was the point? Typically I sail somewhere to gain control of the area I am in. If I beat you I believe I have earned the right to stay there.

Your idea sounds more like a battle ground instance not a function of OW RvR.

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5 hours ago, Tenet said:

 

I lured you into a gank with my Reno, coordinated the fleet and burned your speed-build upgraded heavy frigate.

The battle resulted in some losses because another person overruled my calls and split the fleet - pulling people out the battle to save a straggler. That straggler was not part of the pursuit force and should have been abandoned to sink in punishment. We were not compelled to split, and had we stayed together no one else would sink. 

Tenet's post proves my entire point.

Purge has counter tactics for Revenge Fleets and Tenet has counter tactics to counter tactics that counter Revenge Fleets. Then we work on countering, the countering to the countering?

In a nutshell if players would start thinking for themselves and stop asking the developers to do it for them NA has given everyone the ability to deal with these "tactics". I am sure Tenet is planning my next demise very carefully based on our last encounter. This is why revenge fleets are good for the game. They make players think, they make players better and therefore make the game more challenging and entertaining.

I am sorry that some of you can't solo as easily as you think you could before. However people are still doing it and doing it well. That tells me that revenge fleets are a player problem not a developer problem.

 

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