Pirate Mechanics Vote

[Lady Athena]

1- If Pirates were always going to be a regular nation with a black flag, there probably should have been no hints given early on in development about Pirates being "hard mode" and unique in some way. They should not be listed in the nation selection screen as "Very Hard". This expectation creates a lot of the dissonance we are seeing now.

2- If what makes Pirates "hard" is that they cannot form any alliances, then an alliance system should have already been introduced to the game. At the moment there is no diplomacy mechanic that actually makes Pirates unique in any way. Even if alliances are eventually introduced, the inability for Pirates to form them does not represent a significant enough differentiator to justify that alone being the sole source of their faction's "hard" difficulty.

3- The fact that Pirates work together should not come as a surprise to anyone who has understanding of human behavior, especially in games/competitions. If you put people together with a common goal and common enemies, of course they are going to work together. It is a massive fallacy to point towards Pirates working together as some sort of unique and Special choice, when all game mechanics have ensured that nothing else was ever going to happen.

4- The answers about plans for Pirates by devs have been quite honestly a little condescending. Maybe it's a translation thing and maybe I am interpreting it wrongly, but to be completely honest I feel condescended towards. All we have been told, in maybe 4 posts by admin despite hundreds if not thousands of player posts on the topic, is something like "nations have all the tools to stop piracy, if you can't do it then it's your fault." Many of us are trying to have discussions about how unique Pirate attributes can actually create a fun new dimension for gameplay. We are not whining about Pirate "domination", just as non-Brits don't whine about British domination.

Many Pirate players themselves support unique attributes for Pirates that make them distinct from nations. So that they can actually feel like Pirates. THAT is what the discussion is about - not simply punishing Pirate players or making it needlessly difficult. To be treated by the devs like we are insolent whiners on an issue we are actually contributing much thought and effort to attempting to better the gameplay experience for everyone is extremely off-putting. Henry Darby locking every thread about piracy within minutes of it opening makes the whole issue feel like a police state.

Many longtime testers are trying to give feedback to better the game, and the results of this poll shows where the majority stance resides. The fact that new topics keep being created by different players, Pirates and non Pirates, shows this is still an issue. The developers have listened to majority opinion previously and at least tested modifications to the game based on that majority opinion. I'm not sure what is different now.

***Edit - I don't mean for this post to come across as anti dev, as I think 95% of the time they have done a great job of listening to the community and designing a fantastic game. It's just this one issue where their behavior is so radically different, both in terms of not considering majority opinion and not engaging in conversations on the topic other than to respond briefly and in a way that (I interpret) condescends to testers that are simply trying to help the game be the best that it can be.

 

Gonna quote this because it can't be said enough.. ^ This, so much this ^ This^ and This ^

 

I also find it incredibly confusing how the devs thought that the pirates would just "duke it out" and weaken themselves prematurely. It's almost as if they thought people were going to magically not be human anymore. Piracy has no reason to attack other pirates. There is no reason to weaken yourself for no reason, and the pirate faction works exactly like any other nation. You have a common goal of surviving in the pirate nation with absolutely no mechanics to make it any different than any other nation.. Therefore.. The logical and overly obvious outcome is that the pirate nation is going to act and be exactly like any other nation...

 

Infact. I'd argue that being a pirate nation is even moer appealing due to that 1 tiny difference, that pirates can fight other pirates. This creates a free situation where two pirate guilds can settle things through a dual, a mechanic no other nation gets, making it even more appealing for players.

 

how the devs thought anything else was going to happen is beyond me.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Lady Athena

[Precious Roy]

All nations were founded by thieves who decided that  violence was god's way of putting them in charge.

[Anne Wildcat]

Guys, remember, this is a game.  I play pirate but am a teacher in real life.  I understand wanting realism but you don't want to turn away players by becoming too real.

 

For me, I play pirate because

I give a furry rats behind about conquest

I like pvp and want to be able to kill anyone. Heck, I'll duel my friends for fun, which only pirates can do.

 

But I also enjoy making things and eventually want to be able to craft big ships.

Should pirates not have the ability to craft large ships, no.  Remember we are people playing pirates not real pirates.

 

Pirates should be able to capture ports to give them areas to fleet and still be safe

Some pirate players (not I) may want to level up fast so they can battle in big ships.

They will not want to be attacked by masses of nats while grinding xp

Should pirates not be able to capture ports, no.  Remember we are people playing pirates not real pirates.

 

Basically, the point I'm trying to make is every player is different, and a real person.

Don't add restriction to pirates.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[GrapeShot]

Guys, remember, this is a game.

Should pirates not have the ability to craft large ships, no. Remember we are people playing pirates not real pirates.

Pirates should be able to capture ports to give them areas to fleet and still be safe

Some pirate players (not I) may want to level up fast so they can battle in big ships.

They will not want to be attacked by masses of nats while grinding xp

Should pirates not be able to capture ports, no. Remember we are people playing pirates not real pirates.

Don't add restriction to pirates.

Anne,

Replace 'pirates' with 'players' in your above quote. If a player wants to do that stuff just play as a national.

Others would like the option to play the unique 'hard mode' of a pirate as an outlaw.

'Hard mode' is not our term. It was used to describe a unique pirate game play when the nations were also introduced to us testers.

As you can see by the poll, most of us liked that idea and are advocating that not be abandoned.

[Anne Wildcat]

But that's you, not everyone.

 

I also like hardcore, and so am planning on setting up outposts in free ports where the action is going on.  

The devs want to please as many as possible, not only a select few.

[Haratik]

The devs want to please as many as possible, not only a select few.

I think the poll reflects that statement quite well.

[Anne Wildcat]

What would be interesting to see is what the pirate only answers were. I'm sure many nats took this poll.

[GrapeShot]

Anne,

I, and I think those others advocating pirate hard mode, are not trying to take any game play away -- we are trying to add to the game play choices.

I do the same thing when I push for a much more robust economic model.

The point is -- if you like nation building and what-not, it will still be in the game.

[Haratik]

How much backreading have you done on the topic Anne? Not much from the sound of it. I'm unable to play the game atm due to real life constraints, but I and many others would jump at the chance to play pirate if it were indeed a hard mode playstyle. At the moment it's just another PotBS that just says "stay away".

[Anne Wildcat]

My last word, and yes I've backread

If you want hardcore pirate, set it as your play style.

Don't complain about pirate mechanics if you play nat, you have no voice here.

Realize the devs needs to satisfy masses, which unfortunately include pirates who for some unknown reason play like nats.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Realize the devs needs to satisfy masses, which unfortunately include pirates who for some unknown reason play like nats.

 

Because in order for the pirates to have anything of value through crafted ships, they need at least some of the them to play like Nats to get resources.

 

I am a pirate, and I do piracy for quite a bit of time, but the current mechanics make it all but impossible to be effective at it. One of the worst being the almost automatic nature of scuttling a player trade ship, so getting the resources to do anything significant is not just hard, but also extremely random.

 

If there were zero pirates playing "like a nat" and bringing in ship building resources to the capital, that would go from hard and random, to practically impossible.

[Haratik]

Don't complain about pirate mechanics if you play nat, you have no voice here.

There goes any credibility you attempted to establish.

[Quineloe]

Completely contrary to this poll and thread, the majority of players are perfectly happy with the pirates being a nation capturing ports - as long as its the ports of the enemy - and will happily form alliances with the pirates.

[Wilson09]

Completely contrary to this poll and thread, the majority of players are perfectly happy with the pirates being a nation capturing ports - as long as its the ports of the enemy - and will happily form alliances with the pirates.

How do you know that? Did you ask all of them?

Did you offer them different gameplay on the contrary to compare?

[DarkFenix]

Pirates having only advantages will ultimately kill this game if left as is. I disagree with the limitations proposed by this poll, but there's really no reason to go anything but Pirate right now, combine that with the fact that any national can freely switch to Pirate and the problem will only worsen.

[Quineloe]

How do you know that? Did you ask all of them?

Did you offer them different gameplay on the contrary to compare?

yes I have talked to everyone. Took me a while. it was 82.34% in favor of the current mechanics, taken from the nations that are not being attacked by pirates, and 12.87% from the nations that are. In total, that added up to 56.3% 

[PrewashedYeti]

yes I have talked to everyone. Took me a while. it was 82.34% in favor of the current mechanics, taken from the nations that are not being attacked by pirates, and 12.87% from the nations that are. In total, that added up to 56.3%

Can confirm, had an hour long interview, very thorough Q&A.

[Wilson09]

Anyhow...what can you say? To counteract any poll and argument...

 

Scientifically, any majority poll right now is useless in the sense that it is not "path independent".

 

People are mostly vs. big changes, and the poll had to be done BEFORE the game launch.

 

Saying this, any developer need to listen but also act as a "dictator" and decision maker. Majority voting only

would simply lead to a big mess, as players don´t have the relevant data and knowledge....

 

I am not against Pirates as a nation, as long as they come up with a "good storyline" to introduce them into the game

and sell and advertise them as they are being played in the game.

 

The current state now is misleading.

[Dragoon]

Pirates aren't meant to be balanced. Pirates are not a nation. Pirates are meant to be a completely different lifestyle with interesting mechanics.

Pirates are like insurgents, having much less in technology and numbers, they resort to unconventional warfare.

This is like asking for an Iraq war simulation game that has US vs insurgents to give the insurgents m1 abrams so that it's more ''balanced''.

mmo not real life

[FireBush]

Pirates should be able to do everything other nations can but anyone can attack them and they have no penalty for friendly fire. It should be harder for pirates to craft the top tier ships but not impossible (pirates should be encouraged to steal over build). I think where there should be a real difference between the pirates and the other nations is in politics. I suggest that outside a few ports near the capitol pirate ports be held by clans. All pirates could dock at the port but the controlling clan is the only one that can build buildings. Maybe even lock the shipyards for higher tier ships to clan controlled ports for pirates. Pirate clans would also have to pay some kind of upkeep or upgrade the port to get reinforcements and things like that (higher tier buildings etc., and at a rate that is more expensive than the nation equivalent because the sovereign pays some of the cost for them). Things like sending a ship to the admiralty shouldn't be possible for pirates (or maybe you can send it to your clan instead if it holds a port). It needs to be balanced well with the nations and maybe even having things like allowing people from a nation to go pirate like they can now but have a system where you could earn a pardon with a nation thru bribes or actions. I would like to see the nations have group based goals set forth by their admiralty (maybe even votes depending on country and political system, giving the different nations a different feel) but pirates and neutral to be more individual. This way the actual political climate of one of the nations effects neutral and pirate numbers and gives players that dont agree with how a vote went the option to change allegiance. Think of how during the golden age of pirates many of the men were pirates because of the war of Spanish secession. Things like a disputed presidential vote in the US could cause those players to turn to piracy or declare themselves neutral.

[CptEdwardKenway]

Pirates were unique and therefor they should have an unique gameplay. At the moment they are the only nation with a growing playerbase. And they get stronger and stronger. I would like the see pirates like they were in POTBS. I would prefer to copy the gameplay and mechanics of a similar game instead of loosing players each day because of broken mechanics. They can take ports yes but only to plunder them and they will loose them after a while. They should have their ports but they would be not capable. SOL are also something i wouldn't like to see at the pirate fraction.

 

Most disagree because they have the same enemy as the pirates. But I am not talking as an enemy of the pirates. I am talking as a player. And I look at many things. I would like to be a pirate that's for sure but when I play pirate I would like to be a real pirate and not just another huge nation which is becoming to ultimativ conquerer. This should be a game which would make fun for everyone. We are loosing our playerbase for weeks now. Everytime a nation got zerged. Many plays may think it's fun. Well imagine you would be on the other side of the map. Maybe it's not that funny anymore. At least we are all here to test and develop. There is no point in keeping this mechanics especially since we all saw the aren't working. Maybe the pirates won't be the supernation after that well let's call it nerf but they would still make a hell of fun to play and that's the kind of playstyle I would play on my own. If all they guys really want to take ports I would recomment to switch to another nation. But there is really no point at keeping pirates as a super nation.

 

There is only one who has fun but not for long that's for sure because you won't have many enemies left and this game will become pretty boring while you loose more and more players.

[Porpoise]

IMO going pirate should have more limitations than advantages making it viable only for small group of hardcore adventurous players who like challenges.  

 

The community has voted for the reworking of the pirates as a priority development goal. If you think the playerbase that voted here is small, then add the poll to the login screen of the game. 

[JimDandy]

As I read through these posts (I have not read all), I am struck by several things first of all the supposed motivation for radically changing pirate game play mechanics in based on historical accuracy. Apparently pirates have an unfair advantage in that they are able to do pirate on pirate PVP , build ships & so on... nice try!  It sounds more to me that we have player nations less organized, less motivated than the pirate's on the EU server. These nations cannot compete on the playing field so they take it to the forums & cry foul.

 

Truth is that only on the EU One server do the pirates hold any advantage, on the other servers they are in complete disarray. On the EU One server we have been blessed with a number of excellent leaders, we have organized & policed our waters to discourage pirate on pirate action (a game mechanic which is in itself more of a hindrance than anything else), we have conducted ourselves as a nation, forging diplomatic relations with other nations and in one one case preventing the almost complete destruction of a nation. 

 

No historically the pirates did not build a nation state in the Caribbean and the United States did not have ports in the area which at that time belonged to the French in fact most of the stuff that is taking place in this game is historically inaccurate. The point of this game, it seems to me is that we start at a point that is historically accurate and the players go from there. It is no more unreasonable to think that the pirates could build a national identity, economic & shipbuilding capabilities than to think that all nations states in this region were in a constant state of war... It's a game!

 

So now you seek to destroy what we have accomplished by citing lofty platitudes about historical accuracy, you are trying to convince the developers to do what you can't. Why not just go to another server with less competition where you'll find small disorganized groups of pirates there that you can gank to your hearts content.

[AfkSailor]

I just don't get the pirates of PvP1. Why are you forging alliances with other nations where you should be enemies of all? Why are you involved in pushing conquest south of the gap and into Florida? If you are for conquest & alliances, reroll as nat. Pirates IMO should give diddly about conquest except maybe protecting their ports.

[JimDandy]

I just don't get the pirates of PvP1. Why are you forging alliances with other nations where you should be enemies of all? Why are you involved in pushing conquest south of the gap and into Florida? If you are for conquest & alliances, reroll as nat. Pirates IMO should give diddly about conquest except maybe protecting their ports.

 

Another one that just does not get it!

We all started out in this game more or less equal. The map, the ships are all in there proper historical context. Now the object of the game is to build your nation & defeat your rivals... is it not?  All the nations are doing that, right now on PVP1 the pirates are just doing it better than the rest.

As with most forums everybody wants to be the smartest guy in the room, this forum seems to blessed with gifted historians who all seem to know how pirates should act... IN A GAME!

Shame on all of you (especially my fellow pirates), who are trying to use historical context as a subterfuge to eliminate a worthy opponent. Beyond the setting & equipment nothing that any of us do in this game is in proper historical context if it were the Haitians would be speaking Danish today wouldn't they? It would no longer be a game rather it would be a re-enactment, imagine what that would be like... "Wot shall we do today mate", "just a moment while I check the Admiralty records we'll know in a moment, oh yes says here we sit in port today... tomorrow as well Hm-mm".

 

As for those who say we have advantages ... name one real advantage, not differences but advantages that actually benefit the pirates. as for me I would like to see those differences eliminated if for no other reason than to stop all the whining.

 

As for forging alliances read about the battle of New Orleans, pirates were instrumental in the American victory over the British.