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Pirate Mechanics Vote


  

985 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Pirates be able to capture ports, and if not, should they be able to raid instead?

    • Port Capture Only.
      213
    • Raiding Only.
      747
    • No Port Capture or Raids.
      25
  2. 2. Should Pirate crafting exclude 1st Rates (Santisima, Le Océan etc)?

    • Yes.
      663
    • No.
      322
  3. 3. Should Pirate crafting exclude 2nd Rates (Pavel etc)?

    • Yes.
      622
    • No.
      363
  4. 4. Should Pirate crafting exclude 3rd Rates (Bellona etc)?

    • Yes.
      488
    • No.
      497
  5. 5. Should Pirate crafting exclude 4th Rates (Ingermanland etc)?

    • Yes.
      286
    • No.
      699
  6. 6. Should Pirate crafting exclude 5th Rates (Frigate, Belle Poule etc)?

    • Yes.
      142
    • No.
      843


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Pirates should not be able to sail SOL's.  This will keep the balance at historical levels.  Make it interesting and powerful for them in other ways.

I play pirate and you will probably never see me in a SOL

But if we are playing to history then nats need adjustments as well bc there are way too many SOLs around.

Or how about no one can craft a ship as 1 person making ships is not realistic.

Realize, this is a GAME.

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Pirates should not be able to sail SOL's.  This will keep the balance at historical levels.  Make it interesting and powerful for them in other ways.

 

Can you share a few interesting and powerful ways, original and taking into account large population, please ? A few topic entries should suffice.

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I chose PvP2 for ease in gameplay and it doesn't disappoint.  Consistent ping less than 20 or so.  And why would we want to remove that?  No merge is preferable.

 

 

Edit: sorry, posted in wrong thread.  I put it where it belongs.

Edited by Jean Ribault
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One idea that I wrestle with is whether to allow > 1 uncapturable port per nation. Part of me sees the logic in having 5-6 uncappable ports that would provide all resources for a nation, but then the other side of me questions whether or not the existing freeports don't provide exactly the same thing. To say nothing of the new Smuggler flag which allows the necessary resources to be harvested anywhere.

 

And that's just stuff that's in-game today - we don't even know what new opportunities will come from the alliance & diplomacy mechanics. So I'm less than convinced that more than 1 uncappable port is necessary, and certainly it avoids the issues stemming from people having everything they need at hand within short sail of their capital.

 

One thing I do believe would help protect the "newbie areas" around the national capital are shore batteries. In real life, even blockading fleets wouldn't dare get too close to shore, as they'd be hammered by shore batteries and then forced to leave the line to repair. So, I think NPC shore batteries that would automatically begin firing at enemy vessels once they entered the "Protected by <Capital Name>" area would be a great solution.

 

They could also be purchasable and/or craftable as an upgrade for a non-capital port, but they'd need to have some kind of ongoing maintenance cost and would have to be rebuilt after being destroyed in a PB. Or something along those lines.

 

Probably other buildings should have ongoing maintenance costs as well, although I understand that these are represented by the initial setup fee currently.

 

Also, those NPC fleets sailing around in national waters really need to do something besides provide grinding opportunities. In all my hours in Naval Action I've only ever been attacked by an NPC once... clearly this can be improved at least somewhat?

 

I used to be firmly in the "we need more than one port to be effective" camp.

 

With the current "smuggler" flag, that has changed rather dramatically.  I have tried some "smuggling", just to see how it played out, and unless/until the AI fleets start bothering smugglers, it's trivial to use, especially as free ports are always available.

 

For example, if Mort on PvP 2 was dropped back to be the only port for pirates, ship building could be managed with outposts in Plymouth (Coal/Fir), La Tortue (Pine/Redwood), ile-a-Vache, (Teak Live Oak, Copper) and Tordo (Oak, Iron, Hemp).

 

All the rest could be smuggled from near by ports, regardless of affiliation.  With the delivery system all the above mentioned ports could funnel to La Tortue, for an easy 20 min run to the capital, as long as you watched for trouble.

 

The only mechanic they would have to worry about if AI did start bothering smugglers, would be to give add a factor to aggression based on national ports.  Down to your last one or two, nobody bothers you. Hold most of the map, AI swarm and annoy on a regular basis.

 

Heck, AI with aggression based on national ports might be a good idea now regardless, just to see if it has a team swapping impact.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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  • 2 weeks later...

Pirate mechanics are very simple in my opinion.

 

You can turn pirate by attacking your own nation or allies.

 

A few "pirate only" ports dotted around the map (or in historically accurate locations?).

 

Pirates can't capture nations ports.

 

Pirates can raid enemy ports for resources that might be on sale there etc.

 

Pirates can sail any ship they can capture.

 

Pirates can only craft up to 4th rate.

 

Pirates can attack anything without penalty.

 

Pirates can switch back to a nation by carrying out a number of orders (letters of marque) by sinking their desired nations enemies.

 

If you switch (to pirate or back from pirate), all you can take is the ship you are in and whatever is in it's hold. All other ships / items / buildings are forfeit and lost.

 

Cpt. Ed - Great Britain.

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Pirates should not be able to sail SOL's.  This will keep the balance at historical levels.  Make it interesting and powerful for them in other ways.

 

 

 The same can be said for Nationals.. name a single naval Engagement in the Area cover by the current game map that involved Ships of the Line?

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This game is not a historical game as no 1 single person could build a ship and very few sailed SOLs. This is a sandbox, if a pirate wants to sail an SOL (for some unknown reason), they should be able to. I'm all for removing port capture. And I will never craft or sail an SOL, but solely removing pirates ability to sail or craft SOLs based on history is a joke. Also, I think it would be hard to implement in game as they can be bought from free town marketplaces.

Edited by Anne Wildcat
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This game is not a historical game as no 1 single person could build a ship and very few sailed SOLs. This is a sandbox, if a pirate wants to sail an SOL (for some unknown reason), they should be able to. I'm all for removing port capture. And I will never craft or sail an SOL, but solely removing pirates ability to sail SOLs based on history is a joke. Also, I think it would be hard to implement in game as they can be bought from free town marketplaces.

Crafting a SOL and sailing a SOL are two very different things.

My hope is that provisions will make it expensive to sail around large ships, with a smaller cost for smaller ships (in a non-linear fashion). Imagine if it cost you 100,000 gold to sail a 1st rate for an in game day, as opposed to say... 5,000 to sail a frigate for an in game day. Your comment is understandable though, there are a lot of posts in this thread that address your concerns (and equally as many that share them).

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My apologies first off, as I do not know that much about the history.

But if the devs want a historical game, Econ has to be reworked all together.

The most anyone should be able to build is certain parts, bring it to a national shipyard, where ships are crafted, and have some sort of admiralty level, not just XP level, determine what ship you can sail. Then you will see many many more smaller ships & much much fewer larger ships.

Pirates would be able to outfit captured ships but not have any econ.

IMO, I prefer the sandbox mmo style of play where a player can choose what ship to sail/build over the historical.

Edited by Anne Wildcat
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so basically the vote implies that being a pirate should be a negative and removes 2nds and higher and maybe 3rds.....and they can't own ports.

 

these are all negatives to being a pirate.....what positives do they get to make them something people ant to play or do we actually just want to remove pirates as being a thing people should want to be?.

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Positives:

-they don´t have to care about territory

-they don´t have to care about shipyards

-they don´t have to care about crafting

-they don´t have to care about politics

 

As far as I can tell Pirates were meant to be the hard mode gameplay and becoming one was meant to be kind of a "penalty" for not obeying the "laws".

I don´t see a problem with this because you would have the choice to either join a nation and stick to their "rules", or just become an outlaw and have the freedom to do what you want (battle anyone you like without restrictions and taking care of your own).

 

Keep in mind the new politics and diplomacy changes, which will take away a lot of freedom of national players (for example: if your nation allies two other nations you won´t be able to attack any of them without facing the consequences -> turning pirate).

So all the players, who like freedom of choice rather then obeying to the politics/rules of a nation, should choose pirate at the start, or become one at a later point.

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so basically the vote implies that being a pirate should be a negative and removes 2nds and higher and maybe 3rds.....and they can't own ports.

these are all negatives to being a pirate.....what positives do they get to make them something people ant to play or do we actually just want to remove pirates as being a thing people should want to be?.

Just do what we are going to do after the merge. Just roll a national captain and play pirate. Its acually more realistic to and historical to do that now. We dont need a stupid flag to play as a pirate. Roll national and have all the ships and ports you want and play as a pirate including attacking your own smugglers !

I think this change to get rid of pirate "faction" cant come soon enough !

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Positives:

-they don´t have to care about territory

-they don´t have to care about shipyards

-they don´t have to care about crafting

-they don´t have to care about politics

 

As far as I can tell Pirates were meant to be the hard mode gameplay and becoming one was meant to be kind of a "penalty" for not obeying the "laws".

I don´t see a problem with this because you would have the choice to either join a nation and stick to their "rules", or just become an outlaw and have the freedom to do what you want (battle anyone you like without restrictions and taking care of your own).

 

Keep in mind the new politics and diplomacy changes, which will take away a lot of freedom of national players (for example: if your nation allies two other nations you won´t be able to attack any of them without facing the consequences -> turning pirate).

So all the players, who like freedom of choice rather then obeying to the politics/rules of a nation, should choose pirate at the start, or become one at a later point.

 

I think with the new "smuggler" mechanic they could do away with the "turning pirate" and make it a character creation choice.

 

Simply force the smuggler tag to on for a period of time based on the crime.  That would mean anyone could attack them, and it would prevent them from switching nations for free.

 

If you run up enough crimes/hours of smuggler lock, THEN you turn pirate (and lose all assets in the process).

 

It would also give people who make the mistake of attacking a national once or twice a way out without being forced pirate at the first infraction.

 

Nations would be free to decide for themselves how they handle identified smugglers on the open sea.  

 

Very sand boxy.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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Please take away our territory.

Please take away our shipyards.

Please take away our crafting.

And no, we'll keep the politics. We'll come ruffle-stomping on those nation capitals who do not do our bidding, because we won't have anything else to do anymore. :D

 

I'm dreaming it up already as we gank and cap Pavels, Victories and Santismas from the fleeting grounds. Then sail them into the ground against other nation fleets. I'm going to bed and have some happy dreams.

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My apologies first off, as I do not know that much about the history.

But if the devs want a historical game, Econ has to be reworked all together.

The most anyone should be able to build is certain parts, bring it to a national shipyard, where ships are crafted, and have some sort of admiralty level, not just XP level, determine what ship you can sail. Then you will see many many more smaller ships & much much fewer larger ships.

Pirates would be able to outfit captured ships but not have any econ.

IMO, I prefer the sandbox mmo style of play where a player can choose what ship to sail/build over the historical.

 

 

LOL Historical game? OOOOOOK... so what are they going to do about teh Dozens and dozens of First rates?

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LOL Historical game? OOOOOOK... so what are they going to do about teh Dozens and dozens of First rates?

 

I am more concerned about so many...rather undeserved ... post captains, in the historical sense. lol

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LOL Historical game? OOOOOOK... so what are they going to do about teh Dozens and dozens of First rates?

That's the point I'm trying to make. It is not historical.

Pirates should be able to craft ships, even rates if for some who knows why reason they want rates.

Edited by Anne Wildcat
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That's the point I'm trying to make. It is not historical.

Pirates should be able to craft ships, even rates if for some who knows why reason they want rates.

The irony of all this anit pirate chatter, especially the "they should not take ports" is that at one time the pirates had EVERYTHING the nations did. Ports, Construction yards, standing troops/marines. 

 

Just read the first paragraph of "Piracy in the Caribbean" on wikipedia.  

 

"Piracy flourished in the Caribbean because of the existence of pirate seaports such as Port Royal in Jamaica, Tortuga in Haiti, and Nassau in the Bahamas."

 

Also ironic, is that if pirates were mechanically crippled as many want, the people playing pirates, the "killers", would just move to a different nation, and produce exactly the same results as you have now with the pirates.

 

If you want pirates to be different and not have all the same abilities as other nations, then you are not being historic, your drinking the Disney Jack Sparrow koolaid.

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The aformentioned ports and respective shipyards were never, in hands of independents or major powers, capable of building anything bigger that brigs and corvettes. Some of them were even limited by draft types.

 

I don't really care, just don't nitpick what suits and what not. And this same thing applies to the Nations as well. Very very few ports in the caribbean and new world were capable of building anything big. Habana and Willemstad being the notable exceptions in the caribe while the ones up north in the america are not in the map.

 

Fact: Blackbeard was caught due to a deep draft and not being able to escape through the shallows. Tough luck heh. Guess a big ship cost him his head.

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The aformentioned ports and respective shipyards were never, in hands of independents or major powers, capable of building anything bigger that brigs and corvettes. Some of them were even limited by draft types.

 

I don't really care, just don't nitpick what suits and what not. And this same thing applies to the Nations as well. Very very few ports in the caribbean and new world were capable of building anything big. Habana and Willemstad being the notable exceptions in the caribe while the ones up north in the america are not in the map.

 

Fact: Blackbeard was caught due to a deep draft and not being able to escape through the shallows. Tough luck heh. Guess a big ship cost him his head.

 

I guess I need to amended my statement to "everything MOST nations had".

 

So how much traction do you think the anti pirate crowd would get if they included national "realistic" requirements for access to national ships? Gee, I wonder what nations everyone would switch to and would be the next complaint about being OP?

 

Spanish I guess, seeing as the Santisima was their design, or perhaps whatever nation holds Havana, the shipyard she was built at.

 

Careful what you wish for....

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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Exactly my point.

 

The whole "pirate" or "this nation" or "that nation" mechanics must not be thought of and idealized sterile.

 

The mechanics that rule a nation will also rule another nation, different results maybe but origin in the same set piece.

 

As Nations have non historically credible setups the Pirates also do. Game rules say so. But the same mechanic can be switched to different results coming from the same set of rules.

 

Let's take crew management. Nations order them from Admiralty from a national pool. Pirates do not use a national pool but rather individual Reputation ( usually amount of loot and time alive ) to increase or lose crew available. Same mechanics different results in gameplay.

 

We can think mechanics for Pirates that go beyond the limited scope we have at the moment and can sacrifice historical credibility ( the game can field a big number of pirates active in the providence grounds against the historical 100 or so registered ) and ensure space for gameplay population.

 

I always vote for more challenge and steep curves against easy going boring methods, as long as the setups are enticing and original.

 

Cheers.

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ps. Henry Morgan captured how many .. 14 towns? If i was him i would leave all those towns including Havana for myself. And fight the brits like the founding fathers.

 

 

 

Nations should eliminate piracy not by voting, but by fighting.

Crush their ports, drive them before you, capture their resources, and hear lamentations of their leaders in chat.

Voting is a more modern mechanic. In the age of sail you could settle a dispute just by sticking the sword in the enemy's eye.

Capture all pirate ports and they will sail brigs and cerberuses, as you cannot craft from Mortimer town only

 

Morgan was working as a Privateer with the support of the British and besides is an exception to the rule, as most pirates captured no towns and all of them worked in tiny ships (no more than 40 guns) Pirates should never have been put in the game and would be best eliminated altogether as they had no influence during the period of the game.

 

The present rules mechanics give them an actual advantage over normal nations. Get rid of them and hang them to boot.

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Name one such mechanic? :)

Why do you ask such a thing?  

 

They will bring up the "pirates can attack each other to avoid combat" and the "Green on green turns you pirate without asset loss".

 

Those are not nearly as powerful as they make out, but trying to address the real culture issues of, "I want to be Jack Sparrow, Yar!" and "Lets join the winning team because winning is fun" is harder than simply blaming, finger pointing and making rather childish comments about capital punishment for wanting to play a game.

 

But what can you expect from someone who's angry that they are losing, when the game is supposed to be about winning and losing to begin with?

 

EDIT: BTW, I would be fine if pirates were incorporated into other nations as a mechanic and play style available to any nation.  I enjoy attacking trader ships, both AI and player, so as long as I can disrupt somebody I'm happy.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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