Genevieve Malfleurs Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Urchin said: A decent rattlesnake that must be a 15kt snake. Agility doesn't mean turn rate. don't wanna kill your star-wars-fantasies but 11 kts on battle-sails is lightning-fast, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Random Noob said: Ship with metal hull and metal masts ... Below some info for the misguided landlubbers. 11 hours ago, Henry Long Castle said: So wooden ships with wooden masts were not able to reverse like that because of their material? In case they got stuck on irons I guess they would pray for the wind to change or lower the boats to try and turn themselves around. He (random n) is arguing for the sake of arguing despite being presented facts. Every 17-18th century Seamanship book describes and defines going aback, sailing backwards with wooden hulls and woden masts. Yards could easily be turned and ships would gracefully reverse. Its all described in modern sources as well.The misconception that ships were wooden bricks that could not turn well and only could sail forwards has to be burned out from the perception of users. Even saying "taken aback" IS from the age of sail times. 'Taken aback' is an allusion to something that is startling enough to make us jump back in surprise. However, the first to be 'taken aback' were not people but ships. The sails of a ship are said to be 'aback' when the wind blows them flat against the masts and spars that support them. A use of this was recorded in the London Gazette in 1697: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 10 hours ago, Raf Van Boom said: a square rigged ship cannot achieve that kind of heel as it cannot get anywhere close to the wind. 50-60 deg. is all they can. The USS Niagara will capsize at 30 deg heel, a study was done - you can read that here I am sorry to hurt your feelings and attack your position but the heel will have effect the rudder even on the tanker (not so drastically). There is no point to argue that and by doing so you present yourself as a stubborn ram not a constructive critic. Heel affects how rudder works. It's even in the ship design books, even in modern naval architecture books which we must read for dreadnoughts. We read these books so you dont have to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonys Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) @admin does the wind shadow also counts for ships sailing backwards ? had a situation where a buc was in iron in front with a ingermann behind it ( almost boarding position very close > o degrees in de wind) ,. the buc set up full sail backwards where the ingerman* should be in full shadow but it turned out that the ingerman picked up backwards speed faster and earlier and even escaped from boarding in a turn backwards seemingly neglecting the windshadow behind the buc. resulting that the ingerman could sail away easy backwards on the rudder set to the right position making more space for boarding activity and could sail away manoeuvring very fast * buc did 1.8 backwards and the ingerman (must be)more than 3.5. in the wind shadow. it was very frustrating the boarding process was not starting at some point where for a moment the the buc was getting closer to the ingermann when the ingerman realized the buc was sailing backwards it should have been a got you moment the tacktick failed perhaps it need to be in feedback topic and reproduced (sorry for that) * PVP: buc green T/T ingerman elite Edited August 28, 2020 by Thonys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonys Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thonys said: sorry double post (edit dislocation ) Edited August 28, 2020 by Thonys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Malfleurs Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Urchin said: I don't give a hello kitty about NPC battles or with a mate vs a Wapen who should demasted you both with the first few minutes especially you sailing around at full sail, that would literally be just four hits from the stern chasers to demast a Priv if he knew where to shoot, same deal for a Prince. Testing I've had over a dozen solo battles since the update in a Prince vs other players in everything from Indiaman to a Connie. No one has more hours and kills in a Prince solo on this server since release than me. And I can guarantee you that the ship is now seriously nerfed because with battle sails you lose all agility and performance. Full sail you get demasted in a instant even if they don't know where to shoot. Before with skill you could fight a greater range of enemy ships and be successful, basically anything you could tag was winnable. Now the performance is degraded so heavily you're pretty much left to hunt traders and warships with 250 crew or under. Considering the dwindling player base and that most now sail 4th rates and bigger that leaves hours of searching to maybe find one enemy you're able to engage. And for that amount of time involved this just isn't worth it anymore. if you´re the most experience prince-sailor here you shouldn´t have any problems bringing her to good use. btw you only lose her performance on battle-sails downwind. and yes, that makes sense, doesn´t it? the pew-pew against much larger ships is mostly but not totally over. how about adjusting playstyle instead of flaming around? the latest changes in physics was the best the developers ever did.... apart from bringing this wonderful game to life Edited August 28, 2020 by Genevieve Malfleurs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchin Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said: if you´re the most experience prince-sailor here you shouldn´t have any problems bringing her to good use. btw you only lose her performance on battle-sails downwind. and yes, that makes sense, doesn´t it? the pew-pew against much larger ships is mostly but not totally over. how about adjusting playstyle instead of flaming around? the latest changes in physics was the best the developers ever did.... apart from bringing this wonderful game to life No you don't only lose performance downwind with battle sails and I suggest you test her agility not just speed and turn rate for yourself some more. Adjusting playstyle, what join nearly everyone else on the server just sailing 4th rates or Redoubts looking for something easy to broadside, no thanks. If that's all that's left I'll spend my time elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Malfleurs Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Urchin said: No you don't only lose performance downwind with battle sails and I suggest you test her agility not just speed and turn rate for yourself some more. Adjusting playstyle, what join nearly everyone else on the server just sailing 4th rates or Redoubts looking for something easy to broadside, no thanks. If that's all that's left I'll spend my time elsewhere. you're flaming the wrong one here. my ships are 7-5 rates. and guess what: it is more enjoable using them than before the patch. more thinking. less room for mistakes against the big bums. what could be better? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Archer Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 @admin now that heel has such an impact on sailing and turning, could you please increase the heel of overgunned ships? If someone puts all 32 lbs carros on a snow to get the advantage of firepower, he should have to face the disadvantage of higher heel. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonys Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Sea Archer said: @admin now that heel has such an impact on sailing and turning, could you please increase the heel of overgunned ships? If someone puts all 32 lbs carros on a snow to get the advantage of firepower, he should have to face the disadvantage of higher heel. no.- but i agree in some way but first- small ships heel very easily vs huge ships and also much wilder on the waves . but i do not believe that 32 carro vs 9 pd long or medium is to blame for that . fire power vs heel have nothing to do with heel.. perhaps all guns at one side would give a heel you don't like but that is also not the case. i also dont think snow is overpowered and also i don't see the problem with heel vs gun power . even turning has almost no effect on type of guns you use . only mass has impact on speed and turn speed time and i do not believe carro are the heaviest guns (longs are heavier) Edited August 28, 2020 by Thonys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 My first "big ish" battle with the new penetration values and windshadow mechanics - Windshadow takes some time getting used to but overall it did not seem as bad as I thought it would be. New penetration vs hull is great, way less bouncing on close-mid range. Though I still think there are too many fireships Suggsetion as mentionned before in this thread: Ships must have the Fireshipfitting upgrade in order to disable survival 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van stiermarken Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Liq said: My first "big ish" battle ...... 100 Points for the Flag (ensign) 🙂 Edited August 28, 2020 by van stiermarken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Liq said: My first "big ish" battle with the new penetration values and windshadow mechanics - Windshadow takes some time getting used to but overall it did not seem as bad as I thought it would be. New penetration vs hull is great, way less bouncing on close-mid range. Though I still think there are too many fireships Suggsetion as mentionned before in this thread: Ships must have the Fireshipfitting upgrade in order to disable survival yes. i am literally lowering chance to get fire without fireship fitting now. Fire ship fitting will guarantee fire at first couple of shots. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Thonys said: @admin does the wind shadow also counts for ships sailing backwards ? found the bug.. in some cases (rarely) wind shadow wont be affecting backwards speed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Urchin said: Adjusting playstyle, what join nearly everyone else on the server just sailing 4th rates or Redoubts looking for something easy to broadside, no thanks. If that's all that's left I'll spend my time elsewhere. this meta is solely on the DLC ships available and the easy access of the heavy lineship permits from CM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Archer Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Thonys said: no.- but i agree in some way but first- small ships heel very easily vs huge ships and also much wilder on the waves . but i do not believe that 32 carro vs 9 pd long or medium is to blame for that . fire power vs heel have nothing to do with heel.. perhaps all guns at one side would give a heel you don't like but that is also not the case. i also dont think snow is overpowered and also i don't see the problem with heel vs gun power . even turning has almost no effect on type of guns you use . only mass has impact on speed and turn speed time and i do not believe carro are the heaviest guns (longs are heavier) The point is not that 32 lbs carros are the heaviest guns, the point is they are bigger (and heavier) then the snow is designed for. Placing them on the higher decks will definitely reduce the stiffness and therefore increase heel. (High level weight is never good on a ship, thats why modern cruise ships have a light weight structure on the upper decks and our wooden ones have pine masts instead of oak, or the reason why ships of the line have their biggest guns on the lower deck with smaller guns above and not a full 42 lbs broadside on all decks). The overgunning penalty should apply to all ships. And I think it is quite easy to code. The difference between designed deck load and installed load gives a factor depending on deck level, that influences the heel, positive (if undergunned) or negative (if overgunned). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, admin said: Feudalism was banned for being a shithead some time ago. He registered a new acc under sir john his comments are live here in this thread so no its not a question of wording. You can see what he said. and once you take into account that he is a consultant (or maybe even a developer) on another sailing game his comments come in the new light. Especially phrasing, where he tries to shed doubt on existence of descriptions of battle sail proportion formulas by stating its false (while its obviously not). Or denies the fact that rudder when heeling works differently, he just wants to talk badly about everything naval action because he has an agenda. (working for other developer) So no.. it was not a question of wording - he is a hater under a thin veneer of pretending to be a sailor to shit on other sailing games. @admin So I don't really got a dog in this fight in regards to heel and sail positions. I'm just a schmuck with a 19ft Pathfinder that I use to fish and drink beer on. I rely on @William Death to break down most of the sailing changes for me like a 5 year old. However, I don't think banning players because they are consultants, supporters or even developers of another sailing game with strong opinions is a wise or just decision. Considering the market for niche 18th Century Naval Combat games is a rather small one...making it even smaller and less inclusive would perhaps not be that ideal. There's no love lost between @Sir John myself as frequent opponents on the east coast, but he's definitely contributed a fair bit with his pictures over the years and with his sailing knowledge. In a game featuring the USS Niagra, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have someone who sails on her as a community member. Just my 2 cents. Edited August 28, 2020 by Christendom 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Christendom said: However, I don't think banning players because they are consultants, supporters or even developers of another sailing game with strong opinions is a wise or just decision. Exactly - Sometimes you are the voice of reason mate. But as they have just banned game labs on the "Rulers of the family tree" discord ( without any reason - Just because we are game labs) - I think we are even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 20 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said: He offered his help as volunteer there - which does not make him someone working for another developer in the definition of being paid... actually I also tried to contribute there. You have not attacked the game on purpose. But his actions do make him hostile. His original accounts were also banned here for being a jerk. His statements about our game while being a consultant on another (does not matter paid or unpaid) show his real agenda. He did it on purpose - he DID want to show us in bad light while consulting a competitive MMO. But we understand where he is coming from - shining castles in the sky are so magical. But SJon has probably not chosen wisely. Every serious developer knows that promising too much can only be delivered by magic. Its magic to promise the world to sail without picking an engine, its magic to have have multiple marketing directors to spend your money. Its magical to know that true age of sail fans will still throw money to 18th century paintings hoping for the better age of sail experience. But any serious person knows, that magic ends and work starts and it is slow and hard. I am sure he gets a chance to apply his knowledge on the "Rulers of the family tree" sailing model very soon, no later than 2078 - the approximate time by which promised 50 ships! 600+ ports and 100 professions are going to be finished in 2!!!! perspectives (third person and first person). Which is SAD! As we will be dead by then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, admin said: But as they have just banned game labs on the "Rulers of the family tree" discord ( without any reason - Just because we are game labs) - I think we are even now. well....I think that's called a bang bang play in football. Banning folks on the forums for rulers affiliations is perhaps not the best way to endear ourselves to their community. Seems dumb to have beef between 2 games over dumb shit. Just a thought. Maybe if everyone unbans each other and plays nice we can all go out for ice cream later... Edited August 28, 2020 by Christendom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, Christendom said: to endear ourselves to their community. We probably cause strong feelings just by being there (EVEN silently) taking into account their lead mod is a guy who tried to have naval action cancelled by sending hate mail to valve . Many lead supporters are castaways from here. Its nice they united under one flag.. The only sad thing is that flag is never sailing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, admin said: We probably cause strong feelings just by being there (EVEN silently) taking into account their lead mod is a guy who tried to have naval action cancelled by sending hate mail to valve . Many lead supporters are castaways from here. Its nice they united under one flag.. The only sad thing is that flag is never sailing I don't know much about that game other than it sure has a long list of promises and I have no desire to be in yet another discord. Overall I'd say that twitch streams featuring 1800s naval MMOs aren't really overflowing with viewers at the moment so I'd imagine any positive exposure to the genre benefits them and games labs. Something something high tide and all boats. Again, just a little food for thought. Edited August 28, 2020 by Christendom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, admin said: You have not attacked the game on purpose. But his actions do make him hostile. His original accounts were also banned here for being a jerk. His statements about our game while being a consultant on another (does not matter paid or unpaid) show his real agenda. He did it on purpose - he DID want to show us in bad light while consulting a competitive MMO. But we understand where he is coming from - shining castles in the sky are so magical. But SJon has probably not chosen wisely. Every serious developer knows that promising too much can only be delivered by magic. Its magic to promise the world to sail without picking an engine, its magic to have have multiple marketing directors to spend your money. Its magical to know that true age of sail fans will still throw money to 18th century paintings hoping for the better age of sail experience. But any serious person knows, that magic ends and work starts and it is slow and hard. I am sure he gets a chance to apply his knowledge on the "Rulers of the family tree" sailing model very soon, no later than 2078 - the approximate time by which promised 50 ships! 600+ ports and 100 professions are going to be finished in 2!!!! perspectives (third person and first person). Which is SAD! As we will be dead by then. I actually been keeping my eye on that game for some time, but i refuse to pay a dime until I see any hard true game content which they don't have. While I won't mention what I have spent in a certain space game being built, but it's way more than I have spent in NA for sure, but at least that game I have ships to fly and can go around and test things out as they develope them. This said other game sadly I have to agree with you, they have way to big of a list and nothing to show yet and they expect to be ready some time in a year or two? They better get there butt in gear cause they are not going ot be the age of sale SC I"m sure. Oh and I did finally do the math and I suppoted this game with well over 2K....dnagit I think you beat my old retired WoT accounts.... While I don't always see eye to eye or agree on things, I have enjoyed this game over the years or I wouldn't had spent that much on Accounts and DLC's. Edited August 28, 2020 by Sir Texas Sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetric de Cornusiac Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Something else but probably connected with this update: Where have the victory marks gone? They are no longer required for port investments and we (on PvE server) don't get them on mondays anymore. Any future use for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonys Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Sea Archer said: The point is not that 32 lbs carros are the heaviest guns, the point is they are bigger (and heavier) then the snow is designed for. Placing them on the higher decks will definitely reduce the stiffness and therefore increase heel. (High level weight is never good on a ship, thats why modern cruise ships have a light weight structure on the upper decks and our wooden ones have pine masts instead of oak, or the reason why ships of the line have their biggest guns on the lower deck with smaller guns above and not a full 42 lbs broadside on all decks). The overgunning penalty should apply to all ships. And I think it is quite easy to code. The difference between designed deck load and installed load gives a factor depending on deck level, that influences the heel, positive (if undergunned) or negative (if overgunned). maybe i am wrong but in my world the carronades have the weight that is 25 % of the weight of a similar medium or long gun carronades are lighter than mediums or longs (25 % of the weight of a long gun) even the pressure from firing a carronade is better transported to the ships structure than medium or long guns because they are on a other firing platform. i think we disagree completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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