Pay to Win DLC

[Captain Reverse]

3 minutes ago, Yoha said:

The issue with the DLC ships is really a RvR issue. Players/clans with the 3rd rate DLC will be able to do more RvR because they can get a new ship every 24 hours...it will be a war of attrition that opposing players who sail crafted ships can't win.

more RVR - more action. More action - more online. More online - more follows in Reverse Game. All happy, im - 100%
DLC Rediii grup cant win RVR vs Craft Rediii grup. Why? Becouse
Becouse craft ships better than DLC

[erelkivtuadrater]

28 minutes ago, admin said:

Captured first rate can be in a port of your choosing too. Use the tow and its there. Once a day. 
And Captured NPC oak first rate will probably be stronger, thicker and have more firepower compared to any 3rd rate.
The only major difference is 50 dollars 😉

I am not getting where are you leading to? Are you just complaining on random things because you hate games with DLCs? 

there is a big difference in 1 and 3 upgrade slots though, i get where you're going but you cant compare a ai victory to a dlc ship. I got smacked by two wasas in my grey victory with mediums, reason is they had repair modules and told me it was purple and gold, they just swapped fighting me, i couldnt demast because i would risk loosing my side allthough i almost killed one of them it would be good, but he limped away and repaired back to 80% hp, nothing i personally can do about that

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Yoha said:

The issue with the DLC ships is really a RvR issue. Players/clans with the 3rd rate DLC will be able to do more RvR because they can get a new ship every 24 hours...it will be a war of attrition that opposing players who sail crafted ships can't win.

We do not see your theory happening in the Bahamas. Why? 

[phantomswake]

Also for the record I have played this game since way into alpha...have payed for 3 accounts in total. I have bought 4 DLC, flags , 2 x crafting upgrade, a frigate DLC , I give them all a big thumbs up. Am very happy with those. SO please don't think I am trying to cause problems...actually I am giving my humble opinion. I fully may be in the minority here, but this is how I feel and I wanted to talk about it in a reasonable fashion.

[Cpt Eole]

18 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said:

Have no problem with the dlc ships, however, my concern is they limit the variety we see in open world.

Not that much.

Indeed you have a wave of players playing it just after the release of the ship. Hercule was the only ship used in SC patrol zone at the begining. Now there's plenty of surprise or (less) La Renommée. You don't see much Rattvisan on the sea execpt in patrol zone or in screening. And i think theses areas would be much more empty without this kind of dlc ships.

Each ship has its meta time. The trincomalee was overused for a long time as wasa not so far.

It's more depending on the meta and ship balance than whether the boat is chargeable and redeemable everyday or not except for some specific uses (where most of players wouldn't do if they could loose a valuable ship).

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Cpt Eole

[admin]

17 minutes ago, phantomswake said:

Also for the record I have played this game since way into alpha...have payed for 3 accounts in total. I have bought 4 DLC, flags , 2 x crafting upgrade, a frigate DLC , I give them all a big thumbs up. Am very happy with those. SO please don't think I am trying to cause problems...actually I am giving my humble opinion. I fully may be in the minority here, but this is how I feel and I wanted to talk about it in a reasonable fashion.

super.. 

[z4ys]

We did a privateer fleet. The redoutables all sunk what survived and finished the battle were our first rates.

I don't see any pay to win. Should have been the other way around for pay to win.

[phantomswake]

If the DLC ships were sunk, what did you loose? 24 hours of downtime right? So you get to use those ships as throw away ships to soak the hits and everyone Wins with no real downside. That is how I see that. Maybe that is looking at it from the wrong way I don't know.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, phantomswake said:

Maybe that is looking at it from the wrong way I don't know.

They could just as easily used captured 1st rates that take even less effort to acquire and you can get more than one in a 24 hour period.   

[phantomswake]

less effort than pushing a reclaim button? I don't know about that. However as the admin noted you get 1 tow per 24 hour. so every attempt after the first. So you capture 1 first rate, how ever long that takes, then tow it to the port you want to sail it, then every other attempt you would have to sail it, along with all the dangers that go with it. And same goes for the guy with the DLC ship after his first ship I guess he is back to even and having to do the same thing.

Oh by the way the person with the DLC ship didn't have to use their tow so they get to use it for anything else they want, while the guy without DLC had to use his up.

[Diceman]

3 hours ago, phantomswake said:

It is a trend that keeps seeping into the western market as a whole. But as you are seeing now its starting to over take this game as well. Now you need the newest DLC to compete and be a viable player, or you will be playing with such handicap that the game is not fun.

I was alright with the DLC being in the lower rate ships, let me stress not really happy but tolerant. I mean the La Wreck is nothing more than a seal clubber that I don't feel was good for the game but I put up with it. BUT NOW, there is DLC in our 3rd rates, something that should never have been touched. 1st to 3rd rates should never have been touched with DLC ships. IT's way to much of a power spike for anyone who buys the DLC over someone who doesn't.

Its to greedy. It bad for the game, I am not paying for it and I am sad that its here. I love this game, I want to see it do good, but not like this. Its to much and to far.

I like the DLCs. Great ships and as a way to payback the devs for this great game. 

I’ve bought every one except the Req & Leopard... but because of this post I’ll be buying the Leopard... 

Keep it up with the negativity and I’ll be forced to buy the Req too...

 

[Aquillas]

47 minutes ago, phantomswake said:

If the DLC ships were sunk, what did you loose? 24 hours of downtime right?

No right. Crafted ships always have maximum port bonuses. DLC ship have a random bonus. Even with (s)woods, "good" DLC's are spawning maybe once a week.

Reducing the redeem capability would turn them all to useless. But that's might be the real purpose of this topic...

Edited February 11, 2020 by Aquillas

[erelkivtuadrater]

1 hour ago, admin said:

We do not see your theory happening in the Bahamas. Why? 

because after being dominated by requins and hercules for months you came to the point where the community made so many posts about it that you had to make the renomme and surprise shallow ships to compete with them. np 🙂

[phantomswake]

Quantity has a quality all its own - Stalin

If the DLC ships had no other quality they would still be good as cannon fodder. In a game where attrition matters it has impact. At the end of the game Attrition  has the most impact. That is simple logic.

 

"Keep it up with the negativity and I’ll be forced to buy the Req too.."

 

Negativity or Constructive critique? Regardless, its your money purchase what you please. Really has nothing to do with the money, I just want a healthy game that people will want to play. I think keeping the DLC out of the 1st - 3rd rates is important for the game, I am curious would you buy a DLC ship if it was the best ship in the game at the highest tier? At what point do you draw the line in the sand and say this is enough?

[Tiedemann]

Right now I consider the Redoutable as the best 3. rate, because you can redeam it in seasoned wood (every day). It basically compete/match 2. rates with normal wood. So right now I think it is OP and unbalanced. This again encouraging players to buy it but devs have stated that they are rebalancing stats on the other line ships and tweaking something with the seasoned wood drop. So I would not rage - delete my character or buy the DLC just to be competitive, chill! There might be some hope down the road 

DLC line ships gives players to easy access to ships that should require more investments and I fear the economy will take a serious hit because of this. I for example will not need as much resources for crafting anymore, because I will just use the Redoutable in the cases where I used to use 2. rates and 3. rates. This has an immediate impact on how much time I sail traders, so for those that specialize in hunting fat traders: Bigger DLC ships will result in less traders sailing in OW to collect resources!

I have no problem with DLC ships in general, as long as they are not the best in it's class and get a slight BR penalty, so it is not the preferred choice in RvR.
If for some reason a DLC ship is best in it's class and have low BR, then I consider it pay to win! Hercules, L'Hermoinee, Ratvisan are DLC ships I consider balanced. Le Requin is another story imo..  

[Licinio Chiavari]

Only P2W - and within the limits of what could be "winning", so meaning a far easier gameplay than others not paying the same - is multiaccount.

Period.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

32 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

Right now I consider the Redoutable as the best 3. rate, because you can redeam it in seasoned wood (every day). It basically compete/match 2. rates with normal wood. So right now I think it is OP and unbalanced. 

Admin stated other lineships are going to be buffed this week it seems.

[phantomswake]

"Well I can just go fight and have fun."

Well I mean there are plenty of DLC content to "just go fight and have fun". Does it need to be in our tier 1-3 rates? Trying to understand here your saying if you could buy the best ship in the game at the highest tier without any effort and go PvP against other ships where they had to work their butt off for it. You would be OK with that? What happens when they come out with the next big ship...better than your ship would you buy that ship too? Don't you think a person who invests resources in time have a spot in this game too? If you take away the point of the persistent world, then why even bother with it at all?

[Diceman]

 

1 hour ago, phantomswake said:

Quantity has a quality all its own - Stalin

If the DLC ships had no other quality they would still be good as cannon fodder. In a game where attrition matters it has impact. At the end of the game Attrition  has the most impact. That is simple logic.

 

"Keep it up with the negativity and I’ll be forced to buy the Req too.."

 

Negativity or Constructive critique? Regardless, its your money purchase what you please. Really has nothing to do with the money, I just want a healthy game that people will want to play. I think keeping the DLC out of the 1st - 3rd rates is important for the game, I am curious would you buy a DLC ship if it was the best ship in the game at the highest tier? At what point do you draw the line in the sand and say this is enough?

I totally disagree with your point.

I feel DLC makes the game more healthy. It allows the casual player access to higher level fights. That’s good!

It decreases the fear of losing your one and only high level ship, thus encouraging more fights. That’s good!

It gives the hardened vets more guys to sink because there’s more fights... That’s good!!

Hopefully that casual that’s playing more because of DLC... expands their gameplay to more deeper into levels getting more involved in more parts of game, thus getting more people in the game... that’s good!!

More people playing this game is a good thing. High level ship fights are more fun and everyone wants to get in on that... why exclude the casual player??? Making a class of ship (1-3 rates) an exclusive club only will cause more people to leave and spend their gametime somewhere else where they can be competitive... 

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

Is not a DLC that make pay to win the game, is more the Alt philosophy 

Wrong alts are nothing more than multi players of the game.  Me and my 6 chars  aren’t doing anything 6 well organized players can do.  Except I can’t fight with all 6 of my chars at the same time.  Done 2-3 before but that was a pain.  If your getting your arse beat by one guy runing more than one char I hate to say alts isn’t your problem in a game where skill does matter.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Maybe keep dlc traits random but allow players that craft ships to pick the perk they want with a chance at the normal or better.  Cramp vs very cramp.  Fast vs very fast.

[Licinio Chiavari]

5 minutes ago, Diceman said:

Making a class of ship (1-3 rates) an exclusive club only will cause more people to leave and spend their gametime somewhere else where they can be competitive... 

 

The real problem is thinking 1-3 rates are the real competitive environment.

That leads people to sail bigger ships as soon as possible while having no clues of smaller.

I see a good 75% server pop having to go back on unrated.

[Liq]

What made me worry was this:

On 2/10/2020 at 5:14 AM, admin said:

[...]
But it seems to me that this is a clear signal that players will pay anything to avoid shipbuilding (if they are only interested in pvp rvr game)?
[...]

Please don't go further and add more (possibly even stronger) line ship, leave alone first rates, DLCs.

DLC ships should be something unique. A somewhat decent ship, but with unique looks / an unique history to it

Edited February 11, 2020 by Liq💋

[phantomswake]

"Hopefully that casual that’s playing more because of DLC... expands their gameplay to more deeper into levels getting more involved in more parts of game, thus getting more people in the game... that’s good!!"

What incentive do I have to expand my game-play when I can whip out my wal-let and pretty much ignore half the game-play? I don't think it encourages, I think it has an opposite affect.

 

Hmmm, I am all for helping new players. I think most of the DLC is fine, I think it adds to the game in a reasonable way. I however fail to see how DLC at this level will be healthy for this game in the long run. Maybe short run, short term, but long term it will water down the last part of this game that remains deep, and immersive. Wow all this water adjectives in a a sailing game, I am seriously trying to remain serious here.

[Diceman]

7 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

The real problem is thinking 1-3 rates are the real competitive environment.

That leads people to sail bigger ships as soon as possible while having no clues of smaller.

I see a good 75% server pop having to go back on unrated.

NOBODY is crewing a 3rd rate right out of the gate... they gotta have the rank/crew numbers and the lower level DLC ships help them in getting that rank...

I seriously doubt that someone who is fully crewed in a 3rd rate DLC doesn’t have a fair level of experience in this game. 

The difference is if that casual loses his DLC he isn’t financially ruined and forced back to 6th rate ships for days or weeks... he’ll be back for you to sink next redeem cycle. 

And having more people to sink is bad how??