Reference materials:

[Pedroig]

@admin @Nick Thomadis

In one of the threads there was a request for source materials/references.  Figured just start a new thread:

Books:

Guns at Sea - Peter Padfield
U.S. Battleships - Norman Friedman
Witnesses of Tsushima - J.N. Westwood
The Fighting at Jutland - John Campbell
British Battleships - R.A. Burt
Battleship series - William H Garzke
Jane's Fighting Ships - numerous
Castles of Steel - Robert K. Massie
HMNZS Achilles - Jack Harker
The Naval Institute Historical Atlas of the U.S. Navy - Craig L. Symonds

Edited October 16, 2019 by Pedroig

[akd]

Norman Friedman, although I'm sure Milton had some things to say on the economics of building battleships.

Edited October 15, 2019 by akd

[Pedroig]

Considering HMNZS Achilles - Jack Harker is authored by an actual crewmember, making it a firsthand account.  The Naval Institute Historical Atlas of the U.S. Navy - Craig L. Symonds is literally a collection of ship logs with maps and reference cards, thus also a collection of firsthand accounts.  Perhaps actually reading the materials before commenting.  Some were written years later, some were written within the same year as the event.  Some are a collection of first hand accounts or other source materials in a format which is accessible and in a reading friendly format.

I doubt the devs are going to be able to easily get access to much of the actual unclassified MILITARY records, especially in countries not their own, with lengthy and extensive procedures to be processed in order to actually see, much less touch the material.

As far as "source" versus "literature" in the academic world, if you can quote it, it is a source, just make sure to give the credits in the bibliography...

[Pedroig]

But they are not.  You are trying to limit sources to being Primary only, which in absolutely no case is a requirement for an academic paper (in fact for most disciplines one is either confirming or confronting an established position).  Works of fiction in an academic paper are used for levity or for an example of how a discussed theory would be applied.  Recognizing that a dictionary, which is a tertiary source can be used is a start.  A source, a citation, a reference are all the same.  Whether they are primary, secondary, or tertiary is often debatable to begin with, and at worst will draw criticism of the validity of the conclusion, especially with the "soft sciences" (Winston Churchill's books, being written well after the conclusion of WWI and WWII are oft debated to be secondary sources for anything he did not actually say/do).  Read academic papers on dead languages, where there is ZERO "primary source" and yet you'll find them published, in peer reviewed journals with multiple people applying different methodologies and sometimes even agreeing with one another...

Doctoral dissertations, even of experimental results, practically ALWAYS reference SOURCES of studies and theories which currently exist in that field.  Here is an example of references for a Czech dissertation.  What a vast array of sources, from peer reviewed journal publications, to books, to lecture notes...  A source can cite further sources, ad infinitum.

 

[Christian]

@Pedroig

ive been considering buying the book on tsushima is it any good ?

[Marder]

Fleet Tactics and Coastal Combat by Wayne Hughes. Although overall it dealt more on modern naval combat, it still covers historical naval warfare and their evolution. Been coming back to it since my Harpoon/CM days. Always saw it as a must have for naval combat concepts, regardless of where technology sits or the time period. 

 

[sulu244]

I just pulled Conway's from 1860 - 1921, really looking forward to looking through them!

[admin]

good idea on this book list. 
 

[Kloothommel]

I'd reccoment Rüger and Rose for a great historical background.

[Pedroig]

8 hours ago, Christian said:

@Pedroig

ive been considering buying the book on tsushima is it any good ?

@Christian Brief overview of the book.

It is a different type of account, more on the Russian sailors than the tactics. Good copies are hard to find, if you have no real time limit, Oxford Press will reprint singular copies, when they “get around to it”. 

[Nick Thomadis]

>>Guys, please calm down! This is a very nice thread for historical discussion. Any debate with each other, should be in polite manner.<<

I would like to mention two books, as very interesting to read regarding the game's era:

• Battleship Design and Development 1905-1945 by Norman Friedman 
• Naval Weapons of World War One: Guns, Torpedoes, Mines, and ASW Weapons of All Nations: An Illustrated Directory by Norman Friedman 

Please forgive me, if mentioned before.

 

[Christian]

couple of sources i use links because they are easy to use and have alot of information and most importantly THEY COME FOR FREE

http://www.navweaps.com/ the big ol classic one has alot of information on almost everything regarding naval weapons and ships VERY RECOMENDED

http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/index_nathan.php (sub category of the above) anything to do with armor and projectiles go here Facehard program also available from here

https://francearchives.fr/fr/file/e8f62911efdd42614307a2af44a0757041a28f18/FRSHD_PUB_00000181.pdf french guns through history not alot of information on them but it states which guns existed

http://seawarpeace.ru/index.html HUGE amount of information on basically all german ships  but its in russian google translate does work

https://iiif.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/repo/s/hiraga/page/home Hiraga digital archives alot of japanese dreadnoughts and ship blueprints BUT its in japanese 

https://www.history.navy.mil/ shit ton of stuff like damage reports and so on also nice

https://www.e-reading.club/book.php?book=1007030 (yet to read myself) book on british battleships through history

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/Main_Page has alot of info but its a PAIN to dig too and its an absolute pain to navigate

http://www.navtechlife.com/ bit about naval tech good site not a large amount of info but nice nontheless

http://www.navypedia.org/ships_index.htm SHITTON OF SHIPS YO all with their specs refits and so on VERY RECOMENDED almost all nations navies and ships are there i believe the time period is from around 1850-present

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/n0000000.htm again a bit of everything nice information and also some nice rare diagrams of turrets

http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm alot about japanese ships technology and so on mostly ww2

http://www.navy.gov.au/media-room/publications/wwii-damage-control damage control examples with british ships during ww2 and lessons learned from said damage interesting to read them pictures are a bitch to load (atleast for me)

https://archive.org/details/TM9-1985-3/page/n11 nice archive of reports especially about explosives theres japanese german french and italian ordinance reports and also some british i believe

also a bunch about explosives (havent looked alot at this one yet still reading most of it)

https://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/Table_Of_Contents.htm nice for most things pacific war has some nice info

http://www.uboatarchive.net/Design/DesignStudiesTypeXXI.htm TYPE XXI design study and report its very in depth

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ Reports/USNTMJ_toc.htm US tech mission to japan alot of stuff about naval things pictures are sadly extremely dark it has ALOT of information though although some topics if feel are lacking (specifically japanese torpedoes)

but its very good for basically everything else regarding japanese tech

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Christian

[Brig at sea]

Posts not containing references or relevant literature will be removed

photography of bookshelves with books on Battle ships is allowed.

[Niomedes]

History of the American and the French Navy. Especially the french navy, since usually nobody cares about it.
This people's Navy: the making of American sea power/ Kenneth J. Hagan
Three republics one navy: a naval history of France 1870-1999/ Anthony Clayton

Edited October 16, 2019 by Niomedes

[Absolute0CA]

Might I suggest watching the YouTube channel Drachinifel and contacting him. He is a naval historian and has one of the largest collections of sources and source books I know of. And he puts out a stupid number of high quality videos that I strongly recommend.

[RAMJB]

Anything signed by Garzke&Dulin, Friedman or Breyer is pretty much gospel in what regards to me. Those guys are the to-go reference for anything battleship related.

Much less technical, more generalistic, but still excellent read would be Anthony Preston's books. 

And a personal favorite of myself. Richard Worth. He's really informative, while at the same time leaving some excellent funny gems for the writer to just laugh his guts off when he reads them. His book "Fleets of World War Two" is a splendid source for fast reference about virtually anything that was afloat during WW2.

Edited November 24, 2019 by RAMJB

[Hjalfnar_Feuerwolf]

I highly recommend "The Last Century of Sea Power" by H.P. Willmott, excellent overview over the development, global appliance and ramification of sea power from late 19th to late 20th century, the major and minor wars etc. Also a lot of statistics for ship losses etc. Really liked how he shows that the victory at Tsushima effectively caused the loss of WW2 for Japan.

[PRO100kont2]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum. 

I've recently turned 18 and my gf gave me this amazing book. It's written by Mark E. Stille and its called "The Imperial Japanese Navy in the Pacific War". I wont spoiler whats inside but there are great chapters like strategy and doctrines, crucial battles, description and characteristics of CVs, BBs, BCs, CLs, DDs, subs. I attach the picture of the cover and if you are interested in searching up on it. Sorry for it being in polish tho. cover looks the same for all languages.

I hope i havent messed up writing a post and its in the right thread.

 

[Cptbarney]

On 1/8/2020 at 12:13 AM, PRO100kont2 said:

Hello, this is my first post on this forum. 

I've recently turned 18 and my gf gave me this amazing book. It's written by Mark E. Stille and its called "The Imperial Japanese Navy in the Pacific War". I wont spoiler whats inside but there are great chapters like strategy and doctrines, crucial battles, description and characteristics of CVs, BBs, BCs, CLs, DDs, subs. I attach the picture of the cover and if you are interested in searching up on it. Sorry for it being in polish tho. cover looks the same for all languages.

I hope i havent messed up writing a post and its in the right thread.

 

Vereh noice, also welcome to the forums! And your post is defo fine for this thread (mine so but eh). Ryujo and i think that cruiser is either mogami or atago but either both are noice ships.

[jztemple]

As an avid collector of history books, I've finally found a thread where I can make some useful additions!

I would suggest anyone interested in warship design give a look at the books of David. K. Brown, (1928-2008), who was a noted British naval architect and author. Many of his books will list the author as D. K. Brown. Here is a Wikipedia page about him, listing his books. I have most of his books and thankfully a number of them are available as Kindle versions at quite reasonable prices. I have many of the Norman Friedman books and I'd say that books authored by Brown are more readable as Brown is more of a storyteller. However, they are still very technical (in a good way!) since Brown, being a naval architect himself, is mostly focused on ship designs as well as the historic development of technologies. For instance, the pages on ship stability for WW2 warships in Nelson to Vanguard: Warship Design 1923-1945 is one of the best discussions I've read on the subject.

[DougToss]

if you are interested in that, I would check out Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941 . It's a riveting read and one of the best works on naval history I've read. 
 

I'll also recommend On Seas Contested: The Seven Great Navies of the Second World War which is a fantastic introductory title and covers every aspect of navies from recruitment to training , doctrine, equipment, tactics and their combat histories. 

In fact, if you are interested on any aspect of surface warfare in the ETO during the Second World War, Vincent O'Hara probably has a book about it.

Edited January 10, 2020 by DougToss

[akd]

I recently found, and have very much been enjoying, this naval history blog (with some naval wargaming content, also):

https://www.navalgazing.net/Naval-Gazing-Index

Distills a lot of the information in the various hefty reference texts listed above into shorter, easy to digest articles.  Given our focus here, you might start with this series:

https://www.navalgazing.net/So-You-Want-to-Build-a-Battleship-Strategic-Background

 

[NoZaku]

Below are some choice documents from the Hiraga Archive as the source can be difficult to navigate:

British "Programme of New Construction For 1905-1906": http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/70370101#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=-337%2C0%2C3553%2C2046

12" 50 caliber barbette (noted as being related to Kawachi and Settsu Turrets): http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/40910301#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=325%2C738%2C2587%2C1137

 

Japanese Document on American Battlecruiser Designs: http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/21021601#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=3&xywh=1479%2C1031%2C656%2C378

Document on battlecruiser designs B39, B40, and B-41: http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/20260301#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=11&xywh=871%2C259%2C964%2C1674&r=270

Design Documents on battlecruiser design B61: http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/22053001#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=-778%2C-13%2C4656%2C2046 

http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/22052901#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=1&xywh=-190%2C97%2C2960%2C1705

 

Document comparing battleship Fuso to plan A124, and comparing battlecruiser Hiei to plan B61: http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/22050101#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=724%2C340%2C1586%2C914 Note that this document also discusses Nagato, and a number of unbuilt designs of the 1910s. 

Discussion of six stacks for battlecruisers from the (now defunct) American Newspaper, The Washington Star. Details pulled from article from Sept 4th, 1916.: http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/21021801#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=1&xywh=-120%2C208%2C1427%2C822

 

Battleship Design X: http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/20470301#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=1&xywh=-334%2C-1%2C3547%2C2044

Heavy Cruiser Design X: http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/show/id/61040201#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=1&xywh=1305%2C402%2C656%2C378

 

[Illya von Einzbern]

Try these out.
Kaigun by David C. Evans
Imperial Japanese Navy Destroyers 1919-45 by mark stille
Japanese Destroyer Captain Taimenchi Hara. (is good if you want to read how the war felt for non war supporter captain that tries his best to survive with his crew)
From Mahan to Pearl Harbor: The Imperial Japanese Navy and the United States. (the influence of western navy on japanese navy)

 

Little bit balance to all the "western" naval books.
even if the IJN did lose they did so by fighting and not rolling over. Some of the books contains interesting tid bits that gives more view of IJA/ IJN relations politics and naval strategy. Also how the ships performed.

[skg02]

Most probably the last word in book form on Japanese Cruisers. Lot of other ship design, ordnance, propulsion information too.

This was published before Kaigun, but incorporated material that went into it.

Edited January 31, 2020 by skg02