Taxation of Resource Extraction

[Anolytic]

Now that clans with the next update will be able to expand their ports with more industry opportunities, in return for an investment, and as both clan-members and friendly clans will be able to benefit from this. It is high time that Resource extraction from industry buildings should require taxes paid to the port owner.
The port owner has facilitated that this port is available to you and expanded with the resources that you need, and hence they should be entitled to some taxes from everyone who benefits from these facilities.
This would also make tax rate a factor in where some players/clans would set up their industry. If a clan sets a lower tax rate they could entice more players to make their crafting bases in their port.
Obviously the base daily cost of upkeep of a port should also increase in relation to how many port expansions and defence options are enabled for the port. Taxes from industry would help pay for this increased cost.

[Archaos]

I agree with the suggestion, but I would also say that port income should not be public knowledge as it will make clans reluctant to develop ports as it would likely make them targets for attack.

[Anolytic]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I agree with the suggestion, but I would also say that port income should not be public knowledge as it will make clans reluctant to develop ports as it would likely make them targets for attack.

I get your point, but I disagree. Making ports attractive to take (i.e. profitable) is the best way to entice and drive RVR without "RvR-Importance"-features (like rare woods/rare resources) that force RvR but also pushes a winner-takes-all mentality that drives players from the game when they can't catch up. Any clan that makes less reals from their ports can simply recruit a few more traders to stay afloat, while a strong clan can capture profitable ports to save time on trading. Rare woods and such features on the other hand puts strong clans/nations on a irrevocable long-term advantage over less successful clans, which is ruinous to motivation of both strong and weaker clans.

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Anolytic said:

I get your point, but I disagree. Making ports attractive to take (i.e. profitable) is the best way to entice and drive RVR without "RvR-Importance"-features (like rare woods/rare resources) that force RvR but also pushes a winner-takes-all mentality that drives players from the game when they can't catch up. Any clan that makes less reals from their ports can simply recruit a few more traders to stay afloat, while a strong clan can capture profitable ports to save time on trading. Rare woods and such features on the other hand puts strong clans/nations on a irrevocable long-term advantage over less successful clans, which is ruinous to motivation of both strong and weaker clans.

But the other side is also true. The strong clans monopolize all the money making ports and the small clans are left with the loss making ports to have. With the recent changes to the game there were a lot of ports that became profitable as long as traders put the effort in to trade to and from those ports, but it was noticeable how many ports suddenly became loss makers when they introduced changes to the delivery missions so it was easier to make Reals by delivering passengers than by doing trading runs. With so many loss making ports now there will be little drive to capture them and we have yet to see how the new hostility system will work out. I get the impression that county capitals will become important again and there will not be much need for the lesser ports, but this has yet to be tested.

[toblerone]

Even more power to the (big) clans and more moneysinks (so basically more grind) for casual players and small clans just to be able to play the game?

Aren't these proposals pushing the hardcore a bit too far?

 

[Tiedemann]

Taxation on crafting in a port would make a huge difference, and should have been introduced long time age. Extracting resources can be very costly, and I'm not sure what the cost involved in setting up a multi-resource crafting port, but I have a feeling it is not going to be cheap! So if it is going to be open for nation players, then it makes sense to tax the usage to help cover the cost of owning it.

It should have been like this from the beginning, this would have increased the tax income on many unprofitable ports and helped many struggling clans pay for the defence timers etc. The tax income from ports would then show not only the trading hot spots, but also the crafting hot spots.   

[z4ys]

9 minutes ago, Archaos said:

But the other side is also true. The strong clans monopolize all the money making ports 

to me it looks like any port can become a money making port. only placement will make the difference

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, toblerone said:

Even more power to the (big) clans and more moneysinks (so basically more grind) for casual players and small clans just to be able to play the game?

Aren't these proposals pushing the hardcore a bit too far?

 

I do not understand why so many people have a thing about big clans and are so interested in the game being designed to accommodate solo players or small clans. The end game of the OW game is RvR and any clan that is big enough to take and hold a port on their own is a big clan and these are the ones that will drive RvR. If a group of smaller clans band together to take a port then that is no different than being a big clan. Small clans cannot carry out RvR on their own and if they could then the RvR would be very poor, imagine if 4 or 5 people in a group could raise hostility and take a port on their own, you would have so many changes of hands of ports that it would not be worth holding a port.

I am not currently in a big clan, because most of the players have stopped playing, but the few members who are still playing do get involved where possible in nation RvR, helping other clans and this gives us access to friend list on ports for clan resources and Victory marks for those that participate in port battles. So I see no reason why small clans cannot be viable as long as they work together with other clans in nation.

[Archaos]

3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

to me it looks like any port can become a money making port. only placement will make the difference

Not entirely true, there are some ports that produce no trade goods and do not consume anything either, if I can remember correctly. For example Croata only produces Iron and Coal but drops no trade resources and consumes nothing so how is it supposed to become a money making port?

[Vizzini]

16 minutes ago, Routan said:

But the meta on war is winner takes it all. But your idea will fit nice in, I Think. The Big strong clans will get paid for fighting for the nation, thoes that dosent will have to pay them for doing so. But why stop at tax in Reals. Why not also a dock fee. 50 dbl everytime you dock in a port. Will help the big strong clans to pay for wood and dbl for ship crafting.

do like the dock fee Idea , reals probably easier to use as the currency though

[Serk]

Capturing a town and holding it is a team effort. That only one clan owns the port and all it's benefits does not necessarily reflect this reality.

Should players that aren't members of that clan receive some kind of salary from the clan when they help defend or even capture the town? Or get a share of the revenus if they helped raising the hostility?

Edited April 20, 2019 by Serk

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Serk said:

Should players that aren't members of that clan receive some kind of salary from the clan when they help defend or even capture the town? Or get a share of the revenus if they helped capture to town or raise the hostility?

Well the ones that partake in the port battle do get victory marks, the question has always been how to reward screeners who can also play a very important part in the battle.

[Serk]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Well the ones that partake in the port battle do get victory marks, the question has always been how to reward screeners who can also play a very important part in the battle.

I'm not even sure VM will have any use after the next patch, since most permits will be removed.

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Anolytic said:

It is high time that Resource extraction from industry buildings should require taxes paid to the port owner.

We haven't seen the new port features yet, but as I understand it clans can open up for friends investing (dubs, cash, marks?) in ports and production. Wouldn't it be weird to be taxed as an investor or partner?

[toblerone]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

I do not understand why so many people have a thing about big clans and are so interested in the game being designed to accommodate solo players or small clans. The end game of the OW game is RvR and any clan that is big enough to take and hold a port on their own is a big clan and these are the ones that will drive RvR. If a group of smaller clans band together to take a port then that is no different than being a big clan. Small clans cannot carry out RvR on their own and if they could then the RvR would be very poor, imagine if 4 or 5 people in a group could raise hostility and take a port on their own, you would have so many changes of hands of ports that it would not be worth holding a port.

I am not currently in a big clan, because most of the players have stopped playing, but the few members who are still playing do get involved where possible in nation RvR, helping other clans and this gives us access to friend list on ports for clan resources and Victory marks for those that participate in port battles. So I see no reason why small clans cannot be viable as long as they work together with other clans in nation.

You do not understand why a mmo game should be designed to accomodate more kind of players than just one kind?

Well … make a guess.

[Archaos]

3 minutes ago, jodgi said:

We haven't seen the new port features yet, but as I understand it clans can open up for friends investing (dubs, cash, marks?) in ports and production. Wouldn't it be weird to be taxed as an investor or partner?

The thing is that it already costs you to extract resources, I think part of that extraction cost should go to the port owner as tax rather than it being an additional tax ontop of the present extraction cost. For example if it currently costs 40 Reals to extract 1 log then if the tax rate is 10% 4 Reals should go to the port owner, rather than it now costing 44 Reals to extract 1 log.

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, toblerone said:

You do not understand why a mmo game should be designed to accomodate more kind of players than just one kind?

Well … make a guess.

The game does accommodate solo and small clans, the issue is more that the solo players and small clans want to be able to do everything a large clan can, and this is not feasible. I have played many MMO's and there are none I have played where all content is available to a solo player. At some stage of the game, especially end game, people have to band together to partake.

[toblerone]

55 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The game does accommodate solo and small clans, the issue is more that the solo players and small clans want to be able to do everything a large clan can, and this is not feasible. I have played many MMO's and there are none I have played where all content is available to a solo player. At some stage of the game, especially end game, people have to band together to partake.

Point is here you cannot even have top gear for solo playing (i.e. a good wood hunting ship) if you are a solo player on war server. That's not putting endgame behind the group play wall, it's putting solo gameplay behind that wall. So it's not the same as in other games.

[Teutonic]

Eh.

I'd prefer resource costs be what they are now. but extracting a resource gives the port controller reals based on how many resources have been extracted.

the way you put would be taxing resources, taxing on buying and selling, taxing on creating contracts, and taxing on trade goods.

taxes, taxes, taxes. At some point it's just too god damn much.

There is a reason why people are doing the cargo delivery missions instead of trading trade goods now....

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, toblerone said:

Point is here you cannot even have top gear for solo playing (i.e. a good wood hunting ship) if you are a solo player on war server. That's not putting endgame behind the group play wall, it's putting solo gameplay behind that wall. So it's not the same as in other games.

That’s silly.  Of course you can. You just capture it from an inferior captain.   Unless you’re trying to say that there is some sort of correlation between being in a big clan making someone a better captain...  

Just because someone is in a “big clan” doesn’t mean they don’t sail solo at times or that they’re even a decent captain.  

[Socialism]

2 hours ago, Serk said:

Capturing a town and holding it is a team effort. That only one clan owns the port and all it's benefits does not necessarily reflect this reality.

Should players that aren't members of that clan receive some kind of salary from the clan when they help defend or even capture the town? Or get a share of the revenus if they helped raising the hostility?

Clan X fought and won the port.  Clan X pays the daily maintenance.  They should be allowed to dictate what and how much is taxed.  If Captain Serk is upset over the taxes or isn’t getting on the friendly clan list....they he does need to show up and defend the port next time.  

It’s simple really.  

[Angus MacDuff]

3 hours ago, toblerone said:

Even more power to the (big) clans and more moneysinks (so basically more grind) for casual players and small clans just to be able to play the game?

Aren't these proposals pushing the hardcore a bit too far?

I agree with the OP but as you say, there is a danger.  There needs to be some control so that casuals/solos can still function.  IE: A limit on the level of taxation and a limit on how much resource can be withheld from the general public.  Still, to the victors go the spoils and they should be self supporting.

[Archaos]

2 hours ago, toblerone said:

Point is here you cannot even have top gear for solo playing (i.e. a good wood hunting ship) if you are a solo player on war server. That's not putting endgame behind the group play wall, it's putting solo gameplay behind that wall. So it's not the same as in other games.

I can tell you that it is possible to get the good woods solo, it is a bit more time consuming now that they have made changes to the rewards for delivery missions, but personally I have solo collected 25k White Oak, 10k Live oak and 15k Sabicu, without any assistance from clan since the clan resource missions were introduced. I even had enough doubloons to exchange 40k doubloons for 40 Combat Medals. I have assisted in capturing and defending some ports so I have some VM's coming in. With the changes to PvE missions that also award CM's and chests I can get nearly everything, so what else do I need as a solo player?

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

15 minutes ago, Routan said:

But you only get acces, because your clan is on the friend list, right? You think a player that only OW PvP will get on the clan list?

Have you ever tried asking? I assume not seeing how you seem already defeated without trying.

[toblerone]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

I can tell you that it is possible 

May I ask you in which faction do you play?