Patch XX - AI combat and maneuvers, boarding behavior, NPC locations and travel routes and all other NPC feedback issues

[LeBoiteux]

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

Maybe Peace server needs a review on the NPC distribution ? Should be helpful albeit they can be squadrons and fleets with a few lone frigates. Think majority requires multiplayer, and are easily done with a friend.

It may indeed be interested to listen to the main users of the PvE server to know what they think.

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

In any case, what does "suitable target" mean ? The very basic PvE suitable target, as i see it, is a Kill Mission of low difficulty - will be a equal rate 1v1.

Think of the PvE server as if it emulates the PvP server, not as if PvE-ers considered bots as farming. Thus, aren't there PvPers on the War Server who like patrolling in the OW hoping for lonely preys and 1 vs 1 ? The same goes with PvE-ers on the PvE server. The way to create content on the PvE server and the way make any AI is to emulate life. Would PvP-ers who like 1vs1 be satisfied if there were only missions to get 1vs1 ?

What can you find on the PvP server ?

• human players attacking you in your trader
• lonely prey you can attack in the OW
• etc.

Thus, what should you find on the PvE server ? The same things but designed for PvE :

• bots attacking you in your trader
• lonely bots you can attack in the OW
• etc

Talking here about immersion in PvE as content.

IMO

Edited February 4, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Angus MacDuff]

yesterday I boarded some AI LGVs in my LGVR with marines and 1777 muskets.  Every second round  I used muskets and the effectiveness went down by one each time (20 kills, 19, 18, etc).  Shooting into 'Defend" each time.  I was only losing 2 crew per round so it seems that my effectiveness should remain higher.  In addition, his morale seemed to stay quite high and I never saw him go into crew shock.  I know muskets were nerfed but this seems too much.  After ten rounds, I still have over 40 marines and 120 muskets and im only killing 13 enemy?

Edited February 4, 2019 by Angus MacDuff

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

Less targets on deck, less kills

How much enemy crew was alive before and after the 10 rounds?

Well 240 to start of course...still over 100 by then... I see what you're saying, but he never once went into crew shock and it took forever to get his morale to zero.

[Zlatkowar]

41 minutes ago, admin said:

There is the same number of NPC ships as it was on release in 2019. The only fix that happened is the following - previously bots were spawning at the same place if attacked (allowing non stop camping of the fleet). Now they spawn in a different place on the same route (but not at the same spot). 

This is maybe where the problem lies. I remember a time where you could just chain fight one after another because of that. It was certainly unrealistic, but it was good. Now you have the same amount of NPC's scattered around the map, which results in much, much less NPC concentration in populated areas. It honestly feels like we only get 1/3 of it and finding targets in OW is a matter of luck.

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

In any case, what does "suitable target" mean ? The very basic PvE suitable target, as i see it, is a Kill Mission of low difficulty - will be a equal rate 1v1.

 

I like changing ship rates. Sometimes I hunt with 4-5th, sometimes with a 3rd, and when I find a group I take a 2nd or 1st. So when I speak of a suitable target, I am referring to ship rate + fleet. So if you combine current ship spawn mechanism with ship rates and fleet you end up with pretty much nothing. You take your 5th rate and meet 1-3rd rate ships. You pick your 2nd rate and find only brigs hahahah. That's what I'm talking about when I speak of "suitable targets".

I am not certain I have a valid solution to offer as I don't know what devs are aiming for.

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, admin said:

There is the same number of NPC ships as it was on release in 2019. The only fix that happened is the following - previously bots were spawning at the same place if attacked (allowing non stop camping of the fleet). Now they spawn in a different place on the same route (but not at the same spot). 

Maybe it's as @Zlatkowar said it just seems there is less cause they are more spread out.  The other thing is a year ago we had way more players on the servers.  Is there a way you guys can adjust the AI numbers according to the player count?  If we can have up to 2500 players but only average 500 could we add more AI to make up the difference?  At least maybe for the PvE guys?   Bump there AI numbers up higher?

[Mindfield]

All the following is for PvE-Server:

 

This game requieres a lot of patience.

It is not the usual type of game with fast gratification some players are used to.

 

I was nearly 3 years away and started over like a newbie, had forgotten almost everything.

But what I remember was trader hunting and sinking lone warships. It was fun to capture trader and sell the loot.

For this to do there was no need to travel too far.

This has changed dramaticaly, the sea feels almost empty.

But I like it now more, because it is less crowded and it feels a bit better somehow.

 

I think new people need more pointers in the right direction to do their stuff.

 

I really like the tutorial, the exams not so much.

I struggled massive and failed Endurance to a point I gave up and luckily there is the "Skip" button.

This button should be a lot more prominent and it should be initially made clear the exams are optional!

Pointing this out to people in chat made them happy. I dont know how many will silently quit the game because of the exams.

 

For a new player the AI seems to be a real challenge, extreme good aim and doing crazy manoeuvres.

Again some pointers would help, like improve the ship with upgrades and skills.

The last one was total new to me and I found out only yesterday.

 

So far I have not encountered a trader, but I will go search for them. Thanks for the AI-Pictures btw.

I can imagine a mission type like "Capture enemy trading vessel" to ease the beginner problems and spawning a battle like the "Kill" missions.

Would add some variety too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[admin]

7 minutes ago, Mindfield said:

 

I think new people need more pointers in the right direction to do their stuff.

 

we are working on the admiralty checklist available for new players that will briefly explain what needs to be done to achieve things they want. Giving exactly what you described - some pointers giving general directions to fun.

[Audacious]

3 hours ago, admin said:

we are working on the admiralty checklist available for new players that will briefly explain what needs to be done to achieve things they want. Giving exactly what you described - some pointers giving general directions to fun.

Check the game called Rangers of Oblivion and how they guide new players. Want this sword? This is what you need - Ingredients: *** *** ***, each one can be clicked and it takes you to where you can find them. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Pirate78

[Guest]

All NPC fleets seem to be made up of either all large, all medium or all small.

Bring back fleets of mixed large and medium's.

Bring back fleets of mixed medium and small's.

Bring back variety, not all fleets but some or at least 30% of them.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Guest

[Sparkydog]

If an NPC ship sails in a empty part of the ocean and no one is there to see it- is it really there?

[Hethwill]

How do you know that part of the ocean is empty if you are not there ? And if you are there, then it is not a empty part of the ocean.  

All that matters is where you stand and how far your horizon is and eventually how far your shot reaches.

Everything else is conjecture.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

On 11/12/2018 at 6:03 AM, admin said:

Captains. 

Please provide feedback on AI, Ai behaviour, NPC travel routes and all other issues related to computer managed ships.

The ai behavior in battle is rubbish. Firatly, they focus on a sole target. They ignore their surroundings so they will consistently sail into land or shallows. Not to mention they still target forts which do not shoot them. I recently come across now on the testbed ai that just simply sail away out into the distance and also will shoot at the open air in front or behind me. If I find the moments in one of my previous streams I will clip it. The ai also focus too muxh on the stern unless unable to out pace me. 

Boarding they are predictable since thwy always seem to have the same set up going. They are easy to learn their pattern and just crush them. Add variety to their boarding habits. Create a set of distintive personalities to give to the ai.

 

In OW I have had no issues with the ai movements. Granted they will sometimes sail through an island however which should be fix but it does not bother me.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Velhelm Von Marrius

[van der Clam]

I personally hate how ALWAYS their final death move is to sail upwind of you. Almost 100% of the time if they are about to sink or are so low on health that they "know" they will die if hit again they will always turn and sail upwind. This makes for looting near impossible...especially with such tiny loot circles. So you have to save the kill shot for another 10 minutes to somehow get back upwind of them.

[Internetbaron]

I havent played the game activly for 2,5 years. I came back a week ago. I am Kontre-admiral with ~600hours play time.

At first when i came back I received an free Indefatigable which was great but not enough reals to buy some proper cannons only 6pounders ?!

Anyway i was sailing this week a Renomee and a L'hermion and I am having huge troubles fighting against AI ships of the same class. I am very capable of using Manual sails but its just beyond bananes that when you trade broadsides the AI does 50-100% more dmg.  Yes I have medium cannons with double shot since its impossible to buy carronades or long cannons anywhere because there are too less players around.

When I fight now my only goal is to dodge and bait the broadside when i am Sailing in a 30-60° angle to create lots of bouncing shots then turn and fire of my broadside.

If AI is super strong then make it rewardable to defeat it, not necessarly as ship loot but maybe as mission loot.

As already mentiond create 2-3 AI profiles. One for each cannon type and make it lootable maybe through mission rewards to prevent excessive farming of longs/carros with 1st rates.

 

The statistic provides with 1 player death to 800 AI kills is misleading. I am playing now in a big clan where people farm 10 frigs with 1 1st rate.  These people contribute hundreds of AI kills without the risk of dieing to the statistic.

Statistics about lower ranked players vs AI are much more meaningful. Furthermore how many escaped players vs AI are there.  Right now i dont even tag any 1on1 5th rates fights because they are way too much of a struggle. Secondly if I do them because i think I have the superior ship and i lose i just escape because the AI cant prevent an escape.

People are not even taking fights without huge advantages and big line ships farming frigs are influencing the data. I wonder how many 6th rates in low ranks are able to fulfill missions against 5th rates because I can't. These fights should be challenging but right now they just feel impossible on an unfair base because the AI just has so many "cheat" buffs.

To sum it up. AI is not worth the struggle because fights to hard when you dont have clear advantage while tagging and rewards for challenging fights are too low.

 

[angriff]

Now I know the server routines are slanted to ship type and are not persistent.  I was sailing in my Herc north West and saw a Agemenmon by itself as AI.  I turned around and returned to port in less than a minute.  I sailed in a WASA to rank up my Wasa against the AI Agamemnon.  When I got to the place that the Age appeared in the same place suddenly a Bellona with a fleet of 2 appears same country flag different ship type based on my ship size.   COME ON this is fake and lousy gameplay.   Take out the ship type spawning and make it persistent.   AI is really a problem in this game .. a real problem it makes me want to quit

Edited February 15, 2019 by angriff

[DeRuyter]

15 minutes ago, angriff said:

Now I know the server routines are slanted to ship type and are not persistent.  I was sailing in my Herc north West and saw a Agemenmon by itself as AI.  I turned around and returned to port in less than a minute.  I sailed in a WASA to rank up my Wasa against the AI Agamemnon.  When I got to the place that the Age appeared in the same place suddenly a Bellona with a fleet of 2 appears same country flag different ship type based on my ship size.   COME ON this is fake and lousy gameplay.   Take out the ship type spawning and make it persistent.   AI is really a problem in this game .. a real problem it makes me want to quit

Ask yourself this question: If it was based on ship size why would a Bellona plus a fleet spawn then? That would be a BR mismatch for sure. 

Possibly the Agamemnon passed out of visual range and the Bellona sailed into it as you were leaving port. Just saying because I just did this several times on the test server - saw a target for the Vic, jumped into port to change, came out and the same ship was still right there sailing as before.  As I understand it the AI fleets on the OW are not dynamic as you suggest. 

[angriff]

On 2/15/2019 at 1:18 PM, DeRuyter said:

Ask yourself this question: If it was based on ship size why would a Bellona plus a fleet spawn then? That would be a BR mismatch for sure. 

Possibly the Agamemnon passed out of visual range and the Bellona sailed into it as you were leaving port. Just saying because I just did this several times on the test server - saw a target for the Vic, jumped into port to change, came out and the same ship was still right there sailing as before.  As I understand it the AI fleets on the OW are not dynamic as you suggest. 

Had  this happen  more than once.  This ship group was not there originally and popped in suddenly at the same spot  where I anticipated the Agee was as I sailed past the point.

As far as the BR rating to say why it did not match mine is the question for the Devs to review the routine that spawns these things as people move through the open world.  I am sure they do not want to track everyone on the server and slow it down so the routine spawns them as players arrive in the area.   Once spawned they have a set movement. The question is when do they erase them?

I probably would have found the Agemenon had another player been in the area forcing the OW routine to maintain the generated ship group.  In this case I was not spawned and with nobody in the area the server routine dropped the spawned vessels to save server power. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by angriff
added question

[DeRuyter]

On 2/16/2019 at 6:41 PM, angriff said:

Had  this happen  more than once.  This ship group was not there originally and popped in suddenly at the same spot  where I anticipated the Agee was as I sailed past the point.

As far as the BR rating to say why it did not match mine is the question for the Devs to review the routine that spawns these things as people move through the open world.  I am sure they do not want to track everyone on the server and slow it down so the routine spawns them as players arrive in the area.   Once spawned they have a set movement. The question is when do they erase them?

I probably would have found the Agemenon had another player been in the area forcing the OW routine to maintain the generated ship group.  In this case I was not spawned and with nobody in the area the server routine dropped the spawned vessels to save server power. 

That's a good question. As I understand it the AI has fixed routes sometimes ending at a port sometimes in open sea as in the map posted by admin below. I have seen them just turn around in the OW in the middle of the sea - and go through land but that's a different problem. But I think each ship or fleet is separate and doesn't change based on player interaction on the OW. At least I have not read on the forum that fleets are generated based on a ship that a specific player is sailing. If that were the case there would be less people complaining about not finding a ship or fleet to attack.