Patch 27 - Trading feedback

[SnovaZdorowa]

27 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

Most of contracts do not work.

I know that this is due to new delivery mechanism to ports.I agree but this do not wotk at all.

Most of my prepatch trading routes are now inoperative,  either because producing port do not produce anything anymore, or because consuming ports stopped consuming. In addition (or should I write in subtraction) margins are nothing worth. 

раз уж русской темы нет - подпишусь под каждым словом
волтузить национальные товары чаще всего слишком далеко и рискованно, 90% consumption-портов это чужие столицы. 

реалистичность хорошо, но в торговле важна повторяемость результата, а ее нет, непредсказуемо все.
выпиливание tow to port увеличило очень сильно время на длинных маршрутах, стало неинтересно этим заниматься. но я все еще пробую

[Draymoor]

Some items that used to be premium trade goods are now just ordinary in the net gain you can obtain from trading them due to their value being severely decreased. Either they need their value to be increased by a large multiplier as a premium rare good or their stock needs to be brought up. Some ports are stocking 1 or 2 of some trade goods, the low production made sense before but now those goods have become pointless. 

Some trade routes seem very unbalanced, the longer you have to sail to sell something, the larger your profit should be. That is not the case for a lot of trade goods. That causes some trade routes to be over populated are others to never be used. Why would people sail 300k to make the same profit they can make from sailing 100k? If someone is going to sail trade goods across 500k of open sea then it needs to be worth the time it takes to do. There needs to be more incentive to sail the longer trade routes. 

Some goods just aren't worth trading currently since you have to sail them the same distance as other goods to be able to sell them and the profits are much smaller. I get the demand for more common goods in ports might be higher for more common goods. But nobody will bother trading those common goods. They will just wait for the stock of the more valuable goods to replenish. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Draymoor

[Hugh Latham]

As a nation without a capital, there is very little incentive to trade, except for the exciting runs into enemy capitals.

[Anolytic]

On 11/7/2018 at 3:09 PM, admin said:

You should not think of cargoes in term of old weights and numbers. 
All cargoes are now in hauls/batches of 100 tons.

I get this part, and I quite like it. When you sail it, it's like a modern cargo ship. You may be carrying 10 different types of goods, but each type is stored in equal sized containers. It makes some things a lot simpler now that everything has the same weight. I also like the idea of availability and supply of goods based on realistic consumption and deterioration.

And the fact that trade goods profits were reduced to about 100% return instead of 200% return is also quite alright. It means that we have to thing of value, risk and inflation in different terms than before.

[AngryPanCake]

Do "port produced" goods (iron, coal, oak...etc) drop like other trade goods or are they exclusively produced when actual players build the appropriate building?

If they are only produced by players, then player to player interactions will increase significantly which is also a form of PvP gameplay.

[samba_liten]

So trading is infuriating now. It seems prices only update when the server updates, which twice now has caught me mid trade run, meaning that by the time i get to my destination the goods I brought sell at a huge loss inducing 1 real. Last time was Wednesday. I left those goods in the warehouse, and finally got to sell them today (Saturday). 

Also, the fact that, as far as I understand, the main idea behind the trade system is to bring goods from other ports to the capital seems, at the moment, to mean that more often than not, the capital is flooded with goods.

International trade is impossible since nations are at permanent war with each other. 

 

 

[samba_liten]

And, to elaborate, without international trade, why would I ever leave the safe areas? With it, other nations would have a chance to catch me in the national waters of a 3rd nation, where they can attack me.

[Kilo60]

Why is there no Teak/WO/LO anywhere near my Capital port, post patch 27 and why hasn't the stock replenished on server update!  This kills ship crafting for me currently!!!

[Macjimm]

There seems to be a lot of options for various national trade and limited international trade.  Profit and the type of trade depends on how players are willing to engage with; the game, and other players.

• Sources for obtaining goods/resources = Shops, crafting, contacts, pillaging and direct trade with other players.
• Selling options = Shops for Reals(Rs), Contracts for Rs, Player's trades for R's or Doubloons (Dbls).

Most Brit shops that are close  and safe have a limited supply as a source, but ports in dangerous waters have lots of high value shop goods.  This seems to make sense and provides an incentive for Brits to venture into enemy waters.  It also makes sense that the profit is higher if I sail a trade ship into an enemy port, but the risk is also higher.  

I like trading with players and have been enjoying transporting resources  for clans developing and maintaining their stocks.  I would also use a bulletin board, if it was available, that could match buyers to the traders who are willing to haul for a fee. 

I would love to see mechanics improved to allow international trade.  I traded cannons and R's for Dbl's, with a foreign player today.   We were unable to trade in OW or in a battle instance.  We had to trade in a "Open to All" port, and I tried to assist by hauling some goods for him.  When we returned to his capital there was no option for me to give him the goods I have transported for him.  He had to attack and capture me, in order to receive the goods.   I could have facilitated trade if I was sailing a trade ship, but still must enter a port.  It can be dangerous entering ports.  Meeting in a remote location, to exchange R's for Dbl's, would be preferable.  Some goods are light enough they could be exchanged anywhere.   Even heavy items could be transferred between ships in the calm water of a  sheltered bay.

Allowing trade between enemies, both in OW and in a combat instance would create more content and opportunities to resolve hunter - trader interactions.  Not every attack needs to result in sinking or capturing.  Traders might offer R's, goods, resources, Dbl's or services in exchange for release. 

Communication between nations would also improve trade.  There are ways around it, like using 'find'  to locate a player, or starting comms in global, and then texting by PM.  Allowing communication between enemies, even with a hail, would make things simpler; especially for newbs.

Trade options have different values viewed through the eyes of a trader, verses a fighter.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Macjimm

[Macjimm]

Perhaps a Global Trade channel would help players find traders willing to provide resources and goods to shipbuilders.  If a  player like Kilo wants Teak/WO/LO there are traders who will deliver it to him.  Last night I heard several players texting in Nation Chat that there were capping multiple traders loaded with White Oak and Teak.  

Would be exciting, for some traders, to ship resources from a hot spot to crafters in need.  I know some traders are willing to venture into dangerous areas, for a profit, or for Doubloons.  And there are captains ready to provide escort and support to such traders, for the chance to fire broadsides at the enemy.

Communication is key.

[admin]

Trading will be adjusted next patch. 

Trading in high volume lower margin demanded items should provide more trading opportunities (like grain). Player should be able to trade if he wants to only trade as his main activity. Trading resource spawn volumes were too low to satisfy this demand. 

[SirAlatriste]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Trading will be adjusted next patch. 

Trading in high volume lower margin demanded items should provide more trading opportunities (like grain). Player should be able to trade if he wants to only trade as his main activity. Trading resource spawn volumes were too low to satisfy this demand. 

Perfect mate, did u read what I wrote to you about the reals and doubloons conversion?

[Kilo60]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Trading will be adjusted next patch. 

Trading in high volume lower margin demanded items should provide more trading opportunities (like grain). Player should be able to trade if he wants to only trade as his main activity. Trading resource spawn volumes were too low to satisfy this demand. 

Does this mean Capital ports will get shipbuilding woods restocked, teak/WO/LO... etc?

[Macjimm]

42 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

Hopefully not

+10

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

Does this mean Capital ports will get shipbuilding woods restocked, teak/WO/LO... etc?

Those where never stocked by AI, they are woods you have to go out and get as a player or some one else does and sale.   You want the better woods your going have to pay for it or take the risk.

[Greysteak]

How about 2 types of clan-driven trade missions?  The rewards to be paid for in advance for a selected number of iterations.  Kind of like contracts.  Like this:

One.  Any clan officer can set a mission for any member, anywhere, to bring a set amount of some ship building resource to the clan warehouse for x amount of Reals.   Each clan can only  support one of this type of mission at a time.

Two.  Any port-owning clan ambassador can set a mission available at that port to any player to bring a set amount of any type of goods or resource and sell them to the local shop.  The reward is in addition to the shop's buy price.  Each clan-owned port can support 1 of this type of mission.

[FRAN]

EDIT. 14/11/2015

 

CANCEL POST

When it comes to crafting materials from the factory, I have observed that the cost of working hours is not fixed and, moreover, it is more expensive (up to 25%) the more units are manufactured.

I have looked at different ports and different factories and I see the same thing happening.

Example: COTTON (build level 3)

Quote

Reals_Unit = Collect / Reals   ,,,,   Labour_Unit = Collect / Labour

 

 

Example: IRON ONE (build level 3)

Quote

Reals_Unit = Collect / Reals   ,,,,   Labour_Unit = Collect / Labour

 

 

As you can see, you save more in lh if you buy in small quantities (many clicks), than buy in one click (press botton MAX).

Quote

 

 

@admin Is this implementation correct or is it an error? Since the changes that have been made in CRAFT mode is to simplify or reduce the number of clicks, making crafting is much easier and faster. But, that has a higher price (+ 25% cost labor hour), which, in the end, if you want to reduce the cost of lh, you have to do a lot of clicks.

 

Besides, I think it would have to be cheaper (discount of up to 25% cost lh) if you buy by quantity (amount discount).

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by FRAN
DATA ERROR

[staun]

10 hours ago, admin said:

Trading will be adjusted next patch. 

Trading in high volume lower margin demanded items should provide more trading opportunities (like grain). Player should be able to trade if he wants to only trade as his main activity. Trading resource spawn volumes were too low to satisfy this demand. 

Are you going to raise the profit to, not much, just around 15-20% to counter taxes. Would give more time to the fighting. Ore is is just a change to hardcore traders?

[Suppenkelle]

9 hours ago, FRAN said:

When it comes to crafting materials from the factory, I have observed that the cost of working hours is not fixed and, moreover, it is more expensive (up to 25%) the more units are manufactured.

I have looked at different ports and different factories and I see the same thing happening.

Example: COTTON (build level 3)

Example: IRON ONE (build level 3)

 

As you can see, you save more in lh if you buy in small quantities (many clicks), than buy in one click (press botton MAX).

 

@admin Is this implementation correct or is it an error? Since the changes that have been made in CRAFT mode is to simplify or reduce the number of clicks, making crafting is much easier and faster. But, that has a higher price (+ 25% cost labor hour), which, in the end, if you want to reduce the cost of lh, you have to do a lot of clicks.

 

Besides, I think it would have to be cheaper (discount of up to 25% cost lh) if you buy by quantity (amount discount).

You have calculated the inverted ratios. example: 4 iron need 10 LH. Your calculation leads to 4/10=0.4. But this is unit/LH not LH/unit as you claim. It would be 2.5 LH/unit for 4 iron and 240/100=2.4 LH/unit for 100 iron. I trust that your raw data are correct. Same with cotton btw.

Simple error in navigation

 

[FRAN]

1 hour ago, Suppenkelle said:

You have calculated the inverted ratios. example: 4 iron need 10 LH. Your calculation leads to 4/10=0.4. But this is unit/LH not LH/unit as you claim. It would be 2.5 LH/unit for 4 iron and 240/100=2.4 LH/unit for 100 iron. I trust that your raw data are correct. Same with cotton btw.

Simple error in navigation

 

Yes, the calculation formula was inverted and therefore, the conclusion was reversed (+ 25% wrong> -25% correct). That happens by taking the data at night, fast and sleepy. It's worse to work. 🙄

I have already canceled the previous post. Now it seems more "real" and attractive to trade with discounts of 25% on the costs of "Labor hour".

The corrected tables:

Quote

Cotton:

 

Iron Ore:

 

[Acid burn]

Wel, im verry dissapointed in the trade aspect after the patch, first off all there are no ports where u could make above normal income for sertain goodies so much no more, iron fittings was one of them, but there where meany others. im also am quite disguisted with the fact all trade goods seems to weigh 100 at this stage, even goods that NO way could weigh the same as some other regarding to seize and shape nor actual weight. I also noticed for like white oak and other more 'rare' goodies, contracts seem not to fill, even when u have the higher bid , what seems verry ridiculous. As far as trading concerned im verry dissapointed to see what course naval action is setting, a dull non challeging same cookie for evryone sort of enviroment. I hope some tweaks will come and lessens could be learned. if u want to fancy up the game, i understand, but please do make it so that u could make good profit again, because the market is feeling it. Same for like other resources: for example iron ore it cost 31 reals to produce (what is a chunk) and bairly u can seel it for 57, 58 reals a peace, because contracts will overflow with natural port production , what isnt necesary a bad thing, but with the ports gone to make good profit on for example iron fittings, it seems the demand has dropped, and so have the prices to a extend that is bairly worth to burn your labour hours (its also verry labour hour intensive production of materials to before) -> making no sense in earnings for evry user in the game

[samba_liten]

Why do ai ships have to randomly spawn? Why can't they follow some logical behavior? Lack of X in port Y = ai traders see a chance to cash in and more of them head there, bringing X from ports that have a surplus, and so on.

Edited November 14, 2018 by samba_liten

[Draymoor]

On 11/13/2018 at 5:45 AM, admin said:

Trading will be adjusted next patch. 

Trading in high volume lower margin demanded items should provide more trading opportunities (like grain). Player should be able to trade if he wants to only trade as his main activity. Trading resource spawn volumes were too low to satisfy this demand. 

@admin Is the little adjustment to trade the only adjustment that is planned? Some ports that used to be trade hubs aren't re-stocking their trade good at all. Some trade routes are broken, you gain the same profit for sailing goods across 40 minutes of sailing than you do for 2 hours of sailing. 

[admin]

question to the trading community.. 

• San juan yesterday tax is almost 800k reals which is almost  20 mln in old money. 
• Maracaibo tax of 360k was generated just by one trader (which means sold goods for 3.6 mln reals)

If players convey in this topic that trading is unprofitable - how is it possible (most tax is trading related) that cities like maracaibo and san juan generate so much tax from trading?

 

edit… could be that these are the goods from bottles or NPC trader hunting which can spawn rare riches?

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Perhaps upgrades, books, repairs, rare woods and ships on sale...

nope.. we checked. both tax collections were purely from sales of trading resources.